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MacOS X Jaguar was 64-bit capable?


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MacOS X Jaguar was 64-bit capable?
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BlueApple
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Join Date: Jun 2006
 
2009-06-04, 08:53

I was watching the PowerMac G5 keynote on youtube, and noticed that it was first released in June 2003! That means, it must be using Jaguar, and since G5 is 64-bit, that means Jaguar must be 64-bit capable?
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faramirtook
A for effort.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
 
2009-06-04, 10:06

Eh, not really. From how I understand it, it could run on a 64-bit processor, but not actually be using the capabilities of 64-bit computing.
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2009-06-04, 10:12

That depends on how you define "capable".

In a nutshell:
  • 10.3 has support for more than 4 GB of physical memory addressable by the OS (but not my individual processes)
  • 10.4 has support for 64-bit processing in non-GUI processes
  • 10.5 has support for 64-bit processing in Cocoa GUI applications

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Luca
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2009-06-04, 10:17

Furthermore, I think it was only a late point release of 10.2 (10.2.7, and a separate G5 version at that) that added 64-bit compatibility.
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chucker
 
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2009-06-04, 11:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
That depends on how you define "capable".

In a nutshell:
  • 10.3 has support for more than 4 GB of physical memory addressable by the OS (but not my individual processes)
  • 10.4 has support for 64-bit processing in non-GUI processes
  • 10.5 has support for 64-bit processing in Cocoa GUI applications
Two more:

10.2.7 (G5-only) had a 64-bit version of Accelerate.framework, i.e. for AltiVec (math and vector processing).
And 10.6 has a 64-bit kernel (alongside a 32-bit one), and therefore support for 64-bit kernel extensions.
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BlueApple
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Join Date: Jun 2006
 
2009-06-04, 14:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Two more:

And 10.6 has a 64-bit kernel (alongside a 32-bit one), and therefore support for 64-bit kernel extensions.
10.6? I though 10.5 Leopard already has both 64-bit and 32-bit kernel. No?
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chucker
 
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2009-06-04, 14:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueApple View Post
10.6? I though 10.5 Leopard already has both 64-bit and 32-bit kernel. No?
No, only everything above the kernel can be 64-bit in 10.5.
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BlueApple
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Join Date: Jun 2006
 
2009-06-05, 06:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
No, only everything above the kernel can be 64-bit in 10.5.
So in Leopard, there is only one Kernel, and it's 32-bit only?

I know for a fact that Leopard is capable of running X86_64 binary, since I've compiled one and run it. In Activity Monitor, it does show "Intel (64-bit)" instead of just "Intel".
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chucker
 
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2009-06-05, 06:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueApple View Post
So in Leopard, there is only one Kernel, and it's 32-bit only?
That's correct.

Quote:
I know for a fact that Leopard is capable of running X86_64 binary, since I've compiled one and run it. In Activity Monitor, it does show "Intel (64-bit)" instead of just "Intel".
Yes. Like I said, everything above the kernel can run in 64-bit. Unlike with most operating systems, the kernel does not have to be 64-bit in order for the machine to run 64-bit programs.
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BlueApple
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Join Date: Jun 2006
 
2009-06-05, 09:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Yes. Like I said, everything above the kernel can run in 64-bit. Unlike with most operating systems, the kernel does not have to be 64-bit in order for the machine to run 64-bit programs.

So what is the benefit of having a 64-bit kernel? Or in other words, what are the limitations of running a 64-bit app in Leopard now?
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Dave
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2009-06-05, 10:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueApple View Post
So what is the benefit of having a 64-bit kernel?
Your mouse driver can use more than 4GB of RAM?

Seriously, IDK. Seems to me like the kernel should be able to be 16-bit without any issues other than a 2^16 limit on the # of threads, but I'm not an OS engineer.
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BlueApple
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Join Date: Jun 2006
 
2009-06-05, 11:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Your mouse driver can use more than 4GB of RAM?
Okay that makes sense. So currently 10.3-10.5, each process can't access exceed 4GB RAM.

I read a blog from adobe engineer a while ago about why CS4 won't be 64-bit. He said Apple didn't port the Carbon to 64-bit, only Cocoa is ported to 64-bit, so they couldn't support 64-bit for the CS4.

Now, if that is the case, even Carbon was ported to 64-bit, CS4 still shouldn't be able to access more than 64-bit, no?

I'm confused...
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Dave
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2009-06-05, 12:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueApple View Post
Okay that makes sense. So currently 10.3-10.5, each process can't access exceed 4GB RAM.
The 32-bit processes cannot, but 64-bit processes can. The kernel's bit-depth doesn't have to equal a process's bit-depth. (At least that's true on OS X 10.5, IDK about other versions or other OSs.)
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