[Robo]

You all might have never heard of LittleBigPlanet, but it's been quickly gaining notoriety as one of the hottest games of the year. Basically, it's a simple Mario-style platformer. Except: you can make your own levels. And not just in the typical "crappy map editor" sense, either. Everything you see in the main game was made using the regular, user-accessible level editor, and as you progress through the game, you can collect all the parts you need to duplicate those levels - and mash them all together into something totally new. And the best part? You can share your levels online. With everyone in the world. It's like the YouTube of games.

But anyways. It was set to come out next week, worldwide. It's actually already shipped to most stores. But Sony just announced a worldwide delay until at least the middle of next month. But the game has already been pressed and packaged and shipped! It's finished! We could sell it, by gum, if it weren't for the street date. So why delay it now?

Apparently, one of the songs on the soundtrack of the game (which was not produced in-house, but sourced from a record label) references:

"Two expressions that can be found in the Qur'an."

That's it. They're recalling the game at the last possible second at massive expense to the publisher, and repressing hundreds of thousands of Blu-ray discs, and wasting all of the buzz they've been building for months towards this launch...because of a song on the soundtrack that might "cause offense."

It's not like I have a problem with not offending people, but at what cost? It's not like LittleBigPlanet was going to be a fundamentalist's (of any sort) friend anyway; there's nothing they hate more than leaving pre-packaged and hermetically sealed "safe" content behind for stuff made by real people in the real world, and in LittleBigPlanet, that's what you do. (They're not without point, I might add; I expect fully 50% of all user-made levels in LittleBigPlanet to be different adaptations of "Attack of the Giant Wang.") Is YouTube somehow supposed to police every video to make sure nobody could possibly be offended by anything anyone posts?

I guess this is a little different, since the song was actually on the game disc itself. But still. If it offends you, you could just...not put it in your levels?

You could say that I'm just pissed that I'm going to have to wait another month to play the game, and you would have a point. But I think the reason for the delay - such a random, cover-our-asses sort of thing - pisses me off a little, too. And it begs the question - would they have delayed the game at such massive cost (both actual and potential) if they found buried in the soundtrack two expressions from the Bible?

The Book of Mormon?

The work of L. Ron Hubbard?

Discuss.

[Koodari]

Sure, the stated reason is pretty ridiculous, but it's much harder to protest against than many other possible excuses for a delay.
"Stop being so careful to not offend a religious group!" kind of lacks punch.
So I find it likely that they actually had a delay of technical-or-other nature, and this is a red herring to stop ill will from the audience, distributors, retailers, etc. towards Sony.

If the delay was *really* because something on the soundtrack might originate from the Quran, the Sony executives need their heads examined. Gory shootouts inside churches in games don't even make people blink an eye these days. There's GTA, Condemned, etc. that Sony has had no problem allowing on their consoles.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Koodari Sure, the stated reason is pretty ridiculous, but it's much harder to protest against than many other possible excuses for a delay. "Stop being so careful to not offend a religious group!" kind of lacks punch. So I find it likely that they actually had a delay of technical-or-other nature, and this is a red herring to stop ill will from the audience, distributors, retailers, etc. towards Sony. If the delay was *really* because something on the soundtrack might originate from the Quran, the Sony executives need their heads examined. Gory shootouts inside churches in games don't even make people blink an eye these days. There's GTA, Condemned, etc. that Sony has had no problem allowing on their consoles.

Koodari, I don't know if you understand. The game was done. Some people I know () have played it, and there was nothing wrong with it. For all intents and purposes, it was released; it just had a street date so it would be available everywhere at the same time.

Here's what Joystiq's PS3 site has to say about it:

Originally Posted by PS3fanboy.com Like many of you, we're wondering if Sony's response to the song "Tapha Niang," included in the LittleBigPlanet soundtrack is a little harsh. Toumani Diabaté and the Symmetric Orchestra is known for combining the traditional music of Mali with other internation styles, like jazz, blues and flamenco. The international sound would be appropraite for a game like LittleBigPlanet, which takes players on a virtual journey around the globe. Diabaté won a Grammy award in 2006, the same year "Tapha Niang" was released. His MySpace page has the entire song available to listen to, and amazon.com has a DRM-free version available to purchase. (iTunes users can listen to/purchase the song here.) It's surprising that a song, which has been available for over two years, is only now receiving controversial attention for its inclusion in Sony's blockbuster PS3 game. Perhaps if Sony didn't delay this game, this matter wouldn't have exploded to such incredible proportions?

I agree.

[Luca]

My opinion: Muslim leaders are hypersensitive and need to shut up once in a while. They make Al Sharpton look like a reasonable guy.

EDIT: I should clarify, though, that I don't see any mention of anyone getting up in arms over this... at this point, companies have realized that some people are so insanely sensitive to this stuff that they're preemptively censoring themselves.

[InactionMan]

That's a giant pile o' crap. What expressions from the Qur'an are they? What a great way to kill hype for the one PS3 game that could actually boost Sony's share of this generation.

Yoinked from NeoGaf:

To: Sony Computer Entertainment & Media Molecule While playing your latest game, "LittleBigPlanet" in the first level of the third world in the game (titled "Swinging Safari":smileywink:, I have noticed something strange in the lyrics of the music track of the level. When I listened carefully, I was surprised to hear some very familiar Arabic words from the Quran. You can listen to part of the track here: mt14.quickshareit.com/share/p...lip22503c0.wav The words are: 1- In the 18th second: "كل نفس ذائقة الموت" ("kollo nafsin tha'iqatol mawt", literally: 'Every soul shall have the taste of death'). 2- Almost immediately after, in the 27th second: "كل من عليها فان" ("kollo man alaiha fan", literally: 'All that is on earth will perish'). I asked many of my friends online and offline and they heard the exact same thing that I heard easily when I played that part of the track. Certain Arabic hardcore gaming forums are already discussing this, so we decided to take action by emailing you before this spreads to mainstream attention. We Muslims consider the mixing of music and words from our Holy Quran deeply offending. We hope you would remove that track from the game immediately via an online patch, and make sure that all future shipments of the game disk do not contain it. We would also like to mention that this isn't the first time something like this happened in videogames. Nintendo's 1998 hit "Zelda: Ocarina of Time" contained a musical track with islamic phrases, but it was removed in later shipments of the game after Nintendo was contacted by Muslim organizations. Last year, Capcom's "Zack & Wiki" and Activision's "Call of Duty 4" also contained objectionable material offensive to Muslims that was spotted before the release of the final games, and both companies thankfully removed the content. We hope you act immediately to avoid any confusion and unnecessary controversy, and we thank you for making such an amazing game. Regards, yasser psn id : solid08

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by Luca My opinion: Muslim leaders are hypersensitive and need to shut up once in a while. They make Al Sharpton look like a reasonable guy. EDIT: I should clarify, though, that I don't see any mention of anyone getting up in arms over this... at this point, companies have realized that some people are so insanely sensitive to this stuff that they're preemptively censoring themselves.

Look at the Muslim world's uproar over a bunch of cartoons last year.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Luca My opinion: Muslim leaders are hypersensitive and need to shut up once in a while. They make Al Sharpton look like a reasonable guy.

This doesn't even have to do with any hypersensitive response, though - just a perceived possible one.

I don't know if you've heard of this, but it runs parallel to the controversy surrounding the publication of a book, The Jewel of Medina. Random House actually dropped the book at the last minute, fearing an adverse reaction; it was picked up by smaller presses (Gibson Square in the UK, Beaufort in the US). On September 27, the London house of Martin Rynja, a publisher at Gibson Square, was firebombed. Beaufort secretly moved the publication of the book in the US up two weeks at the last minute, in an attempt to avoid any similar "demonstrations" at bookstores before its launch.

LittleBigPlanet's developer, MediaMolecule, is also based in the UK. Maybe they saw what was happening in London regarding Medina and freaked out? Who knows.

[Luca]

Being in the UK is definitely a concern. The Muslims there have a lot more power over the government and are also much more likely to commit acts of violence.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by InactionMan Yoinked from NeoGaf:

I think including his PSN ID at the end might have been a mistake, considering how many enraged PS3 users there are now.

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by Koodari Sure, the stated reason is pretty ridiculous, but it's much harder to protest against than many other possible excuses for a delay. "Stop being so careful to not offend a religious group!" kind of lacks punch. So I find it likely that they actually had a delay of technical-or-other nature, and this is a red herring to stop ill will from the audience, distributors, retailers, etc. towards Sony. If the delay was *really* because something on the soundtrack might originate from the Quran, the Sony executives need their heads examined. Gory shootouts inside churches in games don't even make people blink an eye these days. There's GTA, Condemned, etc. that Sony has had no problem allowing on their consoles.

Mohammed cartoons ring a bell? Or how about Piglet being persona non grata at some UK schools?

These guys will go ballistic over anything.

[Wyatt]

I have a hard time buying this. The message above states that they are offended by the words being in the song to begin with. So why aren't they pissed at the artist? (He is a devout Muslim, from all accounts I've read, btw.)

[Taskiss]

The words are: 1- In the 18th second: "كل نفس ذائقة الموت" ("kollo nafsin tha'iqatol mawt", literally: 'Every soul shall have the taste of death'). 2- Almost immediately after, in the 27th second: "كل من عليها فان" ("kollo man alaiha fan", literally: 'All that is on earth will perish' ... We Muslims consider the mixing of music and words from our Holy Quran deeply offending.

I don't think these words are something I'd like advertised about my religion, either. I know, "dust to dust" is the same message, but the literal translations are kind of dark and ominous. Sounds sort of "all your base belong to us"-ish...too melodramatic, too over the top.

On the other hand, that's kinda what I expect from a video game, so .... whatever.

[Fooboy]

I, for one, welcome our new muslim overlords.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by Taskiss I don't think these words are something I'd like advertised about my religion, either. I know, "dust to dust" is the same message, but the literal translations are kind of dark and ominous. Sounds sort of "all your base belong to us"-ish...too melodramatic, too over the top. On the other hand, that's kinda what I expect from a video game, so .... whatever.

Islam is a serious religion. There's no doubt that it's dark but from a religion where smiling too broadly too often, is considered "bad", it's not unexpected.

The issue is the sacred nature of the text. Muslims believe very strongly that the text should not be altered in any way, going to great lengths to even insure that the words are pronounced 100% correctly, with pauses and everything.

I think that the people who want the game pulled are getting bent out of shape over something very minor, but that's their perogative. My complaint about the situation is with those who are bitching and moaning about the delay. Will it cause you some great psychological distress to see the game delayed by a week?

Have a little respect for other's cultures for fuck's sake. If they don't want the words of their sacred text to be used in a video game, I believe that's their call.

[Luca]

If you remove everything that might offend someone from every form of media before publication, nothing would ever be published. If Muslims are offended at the Little Big Planet soundtrack, they can boycott it.

Muslim leaders, like always, are whining and complaining about stuff that offends them and trying to impose their own values on everyone. I have no love for religion of any kind, and it bothers me just as much when politicians in the U.S. let their Christian upbringing dictate nearly every aspect of their policy. I do not want any religion pushing its views on me - not Christianity by, for instance, banning the sale of alcohol on Sunday in many places, or Islam, by causing a major delay on a highly anticipated game (for the record, I don't even have a PS3 and I don't care about Little Big Planet, but it could just as easily have been a game that I was interested in).

The reason Islam always has its demands met is because people are afraid. Again, I can't speak for the whole religion, but there are many elements in it who are the most stereotypical thin-skinned bullies on the planet. People are afraid to do anything that might offend Muslims because some crazy will go behead them. As though offending their delicate sensibilities is a just cause for murder.

It's not the inconvenience; like I said, this isn't even a game I will be buying. It's that, the more you bend to their demands, the more they will demand in the future. And it's unfair! Why do they get to do whatever they want, but when something offends me, no one cares? I'm offended by censorship. I'm offended when people question my patriotism because I don't share their views. I'm offended when people try to tell me that the morality of the church and the morality of the real world are one and the same. But will anyone ever listen to me? Never.

I will respect religion when they respect me. And I've seen precious little evidence that fundamentalist Christians or Muslims are very respectful at all.

[psmith2.0]

Well no one goes around showing much "respect" to Christianity these days, and no one is honoring their wishes that their words, images, beliefs, sacred text, etc. not be used inappropriately, or for mockery/ridicule or routinely hammered in movies, TV, the press, etc. 24/7/365.

So this double-standard kinda irks me.

"Say whatever you want about this group over there, but let's kid-glove and kow-tow to this one here...".

You show respect to all (and that's just not going to happen in this modern climate with "The Family Guy", Bill Maher and all the rest), or they're all "fair game" in my eyes (but I'm not the kind who goes around bashing religion to begin with, so...it's not really a big problem with me, either way, like it is with others).



Or do we really have a separate set of "hands-off" rules for Islam? Because we sure don't have it for any other religion that I can tell.

People - here and elsewhere - get their shorts in a perpetual knot over Christianity and how it's somehow "affecting/ruining" their lives (as if someone's ever barged into your kitchen and shoved your face into a Bible, or dragged you off to church against your will and strapped you to a pew), but Christians are the one group who routinely takes it, and suffers the hits and offenses, and, for the most part, does so in silence.

They're not running around threatening editors and producers with death or violence over some slam on a sitcom or whatever (and there have been worse hits to Christianity in pop culture than a few innocuous "cartoons"). No one is afraid to mock Christianity or any part of it. A U.S. newspaper would gladly publish some cartoons mocking Jesus or whoever, and not think twice about it. They might get a few subscription cancellations, at worst. But, chances are, the editor won't fear for his life, or get murdered in the street on the way to his car that afternoon.

A lot of it is fear. It's sad and unfortunate, sure. But it's silly to believe otherwise, simply for the sake of "not sounding mean" or whatever. There's a bit of precedent here, actions and behavior. So much so that I'm sure that same editor of the paper who published the Jesus 'toons wouldn't dare think of doing the same toward Islam or showing those Mohammed cartoons. You'd have to ask him his reasons, but I think it's safe to say it's down to one of two (personal safety or appearing hip/tolerant in relation to a particular subject).



Hey, I spent all of last year on a college campus, and heard students and adults alike going out of their way to glad-hand Islam and "show respect" and feign empathy and understanding toward their "Muslim brothers" or whatever (it was a big P.C. jack-off session is what it was). But in the same breath, it was "goddamn this" and "'Jesus Christ!' that", so their "tolerance" and "respect" only reached out in one direction from what I could tell, and it was one they could all rally around and feel good about. It was just shallow campus feel-goodism at its lamest. At 18, I'd think it was cool and eye-opening. At 38, not so much...they're just blocking the sidewalk and making me late. You tend to learn, in 20 years, what's real and what's for show; what's genuine and what's a big "group hug just so you look open-minded and 'with it' to your peers".

Sorry if that bugs a few of you, but I don't really give a sweet swinging pickle.



It's what I saw and experienced, first hand, a number of times last autumn and winter: people going out of their way to be a friend to this religion, group or culture, but turning around and saying the most vile, disrespectful things about ones they, as a "group", didn't buy into or agree with. Hypocrites. The worst kind...selectively "tolerant and understanding".

It doesn't work that way. Either you are, or you aren't.

...and this is about as far as I want to wade into this type of thread. I don't even do this stuff here anymore (politics, us/them threads, the '08 campaign/debates, etc.), and I'm probably going to regret even fooling with this one. Let's just say I "felt compelled to offer a few words this afternoon"...



Oh well. Someone will probably do it worse than I have...

[Luca]

Yeah, you're right, I don't want to get too deep. Probably said too much already. But I totally agree with your post, pscates. There's a double standard and it's really frustrating. Like you said, the difference is how much they try to shove it down your throats. Christian groups offended by some video game content would likely react in the same way as Muslim groups, with calls ranging from simple boycotts (for the more mainstream ones) to lobbying to have the game changed or pulled, but most of those requests should be ignored. And it's important to ignore those requests, because to acquiesce is to allow a small fringe group of people to impose their values on everyone else.

Most Muslims are good people, just as most Christians are. But the extreme elements need to be marginalized.

[torifile]

Well, it's kind of like copyright/trademark infringement. Christianity has had its brand diluted with all the reproductions/versions of the bible. Islam, rightly or wrongly, has fiercely opposed the use of their symbols in ways other than those explicitly allowed. I don't agree with the means of doing it but I see the reasons for doing so.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, it gets down to complicated stuff. It's why I'm not a religious scholar, or don't really follow it all much. And why I keep my butt out of these kinds of threads these days.



I don't know. It's just all so..."big". But I do recognize two-way streets and "different sets of rules/approaches" when I see it. And often it's not even from Muslims, but, as in the case of this video game company or the newspapers, etc., others looking for, or expecting, the worst.

Now sometimes you can't blame them. But sometimes you can.

Just as with Christians, you can't let the outer fringes define or represent the overall thing. You wouldn't do that with any sort of company or restaurant, so you can't do it with religion, political parties, etc. A fine line between stereotyping/broadbrushing and "well, no shit!".



Sometimes, if things happen enough they become stereotypes on their own. It's not like people have to stretch and make it up, with evidence at hand. But it swings both ways, for sure.

It would probably be a better world if people, coming from both directions, didn't a) go out of their way to offend others so much (doing stuff that you know is just going to bring grief and trouble), and b) the side always getting offended and wound-up realizing that it's a big world with a bazillion different views and opinions and "your way" isn't always going to rise to the top or win the day.

A little of each of those, and a lot of this crap could be avoided or nipped in the bud before it ever got to a full-blown "controversy".

I think I'm just going to shuffle back to my keyboard mockup thread and shut up...

[Luca]

Well, the demand doesn't bother me as much as the fact that the publisher caved in. Religious groups (and many, many other groups that may or may not be religious-based) make lots of demands. I rarely agree with them but they're free to make them.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 People - here and elsewhere - get their shorts in a perpetual knot over Christianity and how it's somehow "affecting/ruining" their lives (as if someone's ever barged into your kitchen and shoved your face into a Bible, or dragged you off to church against your will and strapped you to a pew), but Christians are the one group who routinely takes it, and suffers the hits and offenses, and, for the most part, does so in silence.

Actually, this is how I spent my early teen years; it was my parents doing the dragging (quite literally sometimes) every single week, once on Wednesday and twice on Sunday. Years of this has made me come to despise organized religion.

[psmith2.0]

Well, yeah. That happened to lots of us (me as well, to a degree...Sunday mornings only, during a good bit of pre-teen years; I would've freaked if it was anything more, though). But I'm talking more about now, as adults who can make their choices, ignore what they want, not go places they don't want to, smack someone for coming into their kitchen uninvited, etc.



I never really went after 11-years-old or so, and I barely remember much about it. But I don't go today, although there's no bitterness or animosity toward any of it. I don't crusade against religion or anything; it barely registers on my radar, to be completely honest. Not enough for me to get wound-up or passionate about, in either direction (pro or con).

[torifile]

I'm done presenting the other side of this issue. Thanks for listening to the reasons for the request. As Luca has said, it was in Sony's court to decide what to do with it and they gave in.

That said, I've got the game and I'm actually on the level that has the offending lyrics. I'm excited to play it.

[psmith2.0]

What kind of game is it, and how do the lyrics play into it?

I'm not a gamer and don't follow this stuff. Is it a shoot 'em up type of deal, or more of a skill/strategy/quest thing? Or is it some kind of sport?

[Luca]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LittleBigPlanet

[psmith2.0]

Well that just looks 110% silly.

[curiousuburb]

OTOH, if you're looking to drum up some PR about your game, announcing just before release that you're pulling potentially inflammatory content may be only a step below 'banned in Boston' in generating buzz and media coverage.

Perhaps they're not being driven by overzealous PC, but by cunning PR.

Or not.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Well that just looks 110% silly.

Totally silly and 110% engrossing. The game is spectacularly beautiful and just good ol' fun.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by torifile Totally silly and 110% engrossing. The game is spectacularly beautiful and just good ol' fun.

It definitely makes me want a PS3. I haven't really felt like I was missing anything with my 360, but I'm extremely jealous of people who get to play this game.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by Luca Being in the UK is definitely a concern.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Luca The Muslims there have a lot more power over the government and are also much more likely to commit acts of violence.

Where on earth do you get that idea from?
Fair enough the UK has a large and vocal Muslim community, but control over the UK government. Please.
Bit of a sweeping generalization mate.

In any case the whole thing is pretty dumb. And I agree with the general sentiments here. Fanatical Muslims should get over themselves, and it's criminal that anybody outside of Islam has to be so careful these days.
I love Middle Eastern Music, and it will be a shame to lose the track from LBP because of people with small minds.

If Sony don't get this game out PDQ I'll have to issue a Fatwa against Islam for ruining October for me!