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Do you trust Toyota?


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View Poll Results: Select all that apply:
My opinion of the Toyota brand remains the same considering recent developments. 24 51.06%
My opinion of the Toyota brand has degraded considering recent developments. 9 19.15%
If I were buying a car today, I would consider buying a Toyota despite recent developments. 22 46.81%
If I were buying a car today, I would no longer consider buying a Toyota because of recent developments. 3 6.38%
If I were buying a car today, I wouldn't have considered a Toyota regardless of recent developments 16 34.04%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

Do you trust Toyota?
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 22:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
If all else fails, turn the car off. You will lose the power assistance, but you can still maintain control and brake and the engine is off.
Exactly.
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PB PM
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2010-02-08, 23:17

On most newer cars the breaks lock up if you turn the car off... at least in my experience.
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Robo
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2010-02-08, 23:19

For vehicles installed with the push-button start (like the Venza), it's not exactly intuitive how to turn the engine off. You have to hold the button for three seconds, while panicky people are more likely to jam it quickly and repeatedly.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Quagmire
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2010-02-08, 23:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
On most newer cars the breaks lock up if you turn the car off... at least in my experience.
No duh since you lost ABS as well. That is when you can pump the brakes. Or do you mean when the brakes use up the remaining vacuum pressure and the pedal becomes very hard to press? With that, you can still brake.

Even if you can't brake, you'll still be losing momentum at a decent speed. Just maintain control and coast to a stop. Turning off the car is not preferred and is certainly the last thing you should do if all else fails, but it is still an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
For vehicles installed with the push-button start (like the Venza), it's not exactly intuitive how to turn the engine off. You have to hold the button for three seconds, while panicky people are more likely to jam it quickly and repeatedly.


If these people know their cars, then they should realize how long it takes normally for the car to shut off when it has a push button.

Wait, nvm. I am giving people way too much credit when it comes to thinking straight when it comes to driving...... I had 3 people sit at a green light just today......

giggity
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
On most newer cars the breaks lock up if you turn the car off... at least in my experience.
No, they don't. You just lose power assistance and ABS.
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torifile
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2010-02-08, 23:26

I doubt that these cars were in such bad need of brake repair that they wouldn't stop the car. We're talking very new vehicles, right? Like 3-4 years old?

Yeah, something isn't quite right in this story. If it's just a mechanical thing, brakes would have stopped the cars. People are stupid but not that stupid.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
For vehicles installed with the push-button start (like the Venza), it's not exactly intuitive how to turn the engine off. You have to hold the button for three seconds, while panicky people are more likely to jam it quickly and repeatedly.
This is a valid point. I have only ever hired a car which does not have a key. Personally I'd want to be able to yank the key card to kill an engine, and if any car I bought did not have that feature I'd have it modified so that I could, or so that I had a separate kill switch.

I am not a fan of fly by wire. Nor am I a fan of anything being fully automatic. And I think drivers who like those features should think again.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I doubt that these cars were in such bad need of brake repair that they wouldn't stop the car. We're talking very new vehicles, right? Like 3-4 years old?

Yeah, something isn't quite right in this story. If it's just a mechanical thing, brakes would have stopped the cars. People are stupid but not that stupid.
Even if a car is down to it's callipers and discs you can still stop it by pressing the brake pedal.....
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Quagmire
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2010-02-08, 23:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
I doubt that these cars were in such bad need of brake repair that they wouldn't stop the car. We're talking very new vehicles, right? Like 3-4 years old?

Yeah, something isn't quite right in this story. If it's just a mechanical thing, brakes would have stopped the cars. People are stupid but not that stupid.
Reports of this go back to 2004. And brakes can be worn out within 3-4 years. People slam on their brakes these days. Hardly anyone brakes smoothly to a stop. They like to hit the brakes hard( or at least they do here in FL ). Even my pads are getting down to the point they will need replacing soon and my car is 3 years old.

You're giving people way too much credit on how well they drive.......

giggity
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billybobsky
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2010-02-08, 23:31

I wouldn't have bought a Toyota anyway.

I wouldn't have bought an American or Asian car anyway.

I like my car makers European and a bit blonde.
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
And brakes can be worn out within 3-4 years.
3-4 years.... You can wear out brakes in a few weeks if you come off highways at speed and only use your brakes to stop you.
When I was 17 I was going through brake pads like they were candy!

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PB PM
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2010-02-08, 23:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
No duh since you lost ABS as well. That is when you can pump the brakes. Or do you mean when the brakes use up the remaining vacuum pressure and the pedal becomes very hard to press? With that, you can still brake.

Even if you can't brake, you'll still be losing momentum at a decent speed. Just maintain control and coast to a stop. Turning off the car is not preferred and is certainly the last thing you should do if all else fails, but it is still an option.
I'm not stupid, I meant the latter, losing the pressure. You can still break, but it becomes hard, and I'm willing to bet a person who is panicking is likely to think their breaks have failed in that situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
No, they don't. You just lose power assistance and ABS.
On new cars yes. I noticed it more on my old car, which did not have power assist or ABS.
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I meant the latter, losing the pressure. You can still break, but it becomes hard, and I'm willing to bet a person who is panicking is likely to think their breaks have failed in that situation.
Then they shouldn't be driving on the public roads.
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PB PM
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2010-02-08, 23:39

True, I'd say that would get rid of 98% of drivers, works for me.
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Quagmire
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2010-02-08, 23:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I meant the latter, losing the pressure. You can still break, but it becomes hard, and I'm willing to bet a person who is panicking is likely to think their breaks have failed in that situation.


On new cars yes. I noticed it more on my old car, which did not have power assist or ABS.
This just proves my opinion further of we need to make drivers education more like getting your Private Pilots License. 90% of these idiots will probably start going into a frenzy if the engine failed while in flight rather then to remain calm and maintain control of the plane and start seeing if you can get it restarted or land.

giggity
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
True, I'd say that would get rid of 98% of drivers, works for me.
Yeah, this is a huge problem. I don't mean to be elitist, but we really need to make sure that people are educated better in so many walks of life. Especially when you are driving around in a ton of machinery that can kill you and anyone else unlucky enough to get in the way.

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Robo
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2010-02-08, 23:44

I'm cool with drive by wire...when it works. Personally, I'd rather have a full-on drive by wire system than a mechanical system with a computer-controlled nanny that adds to the complexity (and thus failure points) of the system. Just look at this whole clusterfuck now. Is it a mechanical problem with the pedal? Is it the "safety" computer? Who knows?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
I'm cool with drive by wire...when it works. Personally, I'd rather have a full-on drive by wire system than a mechanical system with a computer-controlled nanny that adds to the complexity (and thus failure points) of the system. Just look at this whole clusterfuck now. Is it a mechanical problem with the pedal? Is it the "safety" computer? Who knows?
Fly by wire is cool, but it needs a mechanical backup for critical systems.
I am fine with throttle being fly by wire, and even triptronic gears etc.

But my engine kill switch (the key) and brakes needs to work in a catastrophic failure. Period.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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PB PM
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2010-02-08, 23:50

I have a better idea, take control away from the driver away completely. You program in a route, and the car drives. Everyone would go the speed limit, break better, etc, because they wouldn't be involved at all.

Okay not a good idea, if something fails, but the point is people are dumb. Some are dumb because they are unable to understand, and others because they just do not care.
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Robo
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2010-02-08, 23:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I have a better idea, take control away from the driver away completely. You program in a route, and the car drives. Everyone would go the speed limit, break better, etc, because they wouldn't be involved at all.
Even Better Idea: Improve public transportation. Then, all the people who don't actually like driving...won't.
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PB PM
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2010-02-08, 23:52

No amount of improving public transit will help. Not everyone wants to live or go into the big cities, which is what transit does best. The reality is, public transit is good to a point, and then it becomes useless.
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scratt
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2010-02-08, 23:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I have a better idea, take control away from the driver away completely. You program in a route, and the car drives. Everyone would go the speed limit, break better, etc, because they wouldn't be involved at all.
Great idea.. Just like everything else today. Take the fun away from me and bring me down to the level of every other dumb wit out there. The day that happens is the day I leave whichever country it happens in.

Far better, raise the required standard of driver skill level, introduce driver license levels and regular retests, and make people appreciate the ability to drive. Or take it away from them and stick them on the transit system (reduce their license level) until they develop the required skills / appreciation for the machinery they want to drive.

If you just want to commute and go shopping you can have a little 100cc run about. If like me you want to go cross country in anything more powerful you need the required licences to do that or you go by train / bus or plane.

In my day I had to know how to look after a car as well as drive it to get my license.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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PB PM
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2010-02-08, 23:58

Don't get me wrong, I love driving to, but there are too many dumb people out there, education or not. We have a graduated drivers license system here in BC, and we still have some of the worst drivers out there.
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scratt
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2010-02-09, 00:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Don't get me wrong, I love driving to, but there are too many dumb people out there, education or not. We have a graduated drivers license system here in BC, and we still have some of the worst drivers out there.
I hear you. But like breeding and owning dogs we need to stop treating driving as a right.
These are the kind of things where I am all for more government control, because I know if something is important to me I'll pass the test and mouth breathers won't. End of problem.

BC seems to have the right idea, from what you say. They just need to implement it properly. i.e. Stamp out corruption / apathy in officials, raise the bar on the tests and tell dumb people to shape up or suck it up.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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PKIDelirium
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2010-02-09, 00:12

I want to know why everyone who has the sudden acceleration problem seems to forget about the existence of their gearshift. If you start accelerating, throw it into neutral. Bam, no more acceleration!

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PB PM
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2010-02-09, 00:13

The system works okay, but once people have their license they seem to forget everything they learn. Lots of people are failing, I know people who failed to even get a learners permit 10 times.
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scratt
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2010-02-09, 00:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKIDelirium View Post
I want to know why everyone who has the sudden acceleration problem seems to forget about the existence of their gearshift. If you start accelerating, throw it into neutral. Bam, no more acceleration!
I think it comes down to what we're discussing. A sudden unfamiliar situation causes panic and brain freeze in 99.99999% of drivers. Which is why we need better education and training that involves skid / loss of control / other kinds of emergencies, and licensees not to be issued until they are all passed.

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Quagmire
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2010-02-09, 00:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKIDelirium View Post
I want to know why everyone who has the sudden acceleration problem seems to forget about the existence of their gearshift. If you start accelerating, throw it into neutral. Bam, no more acceleration!
As I stated before, above 5000 RPM Toyota has it set that you can't put it into neutral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
I think it comes down to what we're discussing. A sudden unfamiliar situation causes panic and brain freeze in 99.99999% of drivers. Which is why we need better education and training that involves skid / loss of control / other kinds of emergencies, and licensees not to be issued until they are all passed.
Which is why we need to have it structured just like getting your Private Pilot's license. Where we train and learn what to do in emergency situations and to remain calm.

giggity
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PB PM
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2010-02-09, 00:27

Yeah, well I can think of only a few situations where my Corolla has gone over 5,000rpm, and that involved going up a hill with a 14% grade at 110km/h (68mp/h for our American friends).
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Quagmire
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2010-02-09, 00:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Yeah, well I can think of only a few situations where my Corolla has gone over 5,000rpm, and that involves going up a hill with a 14% grade at 110KM/H.
Well from reading reports of when it happened, the car was at WOT. Which doesn't surprise me as I bet the first thing people would do is stump at the gas pedal seeing if they can get it unstuck which would bring the engine above 5000 RPM.

giggity
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