Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
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Anyway, I am linking an article that puts together, in their own words, accounts of secret Trump supporters on why they support him. Even if the frustration that has led to his rise is understandable, it still makes for some sobering reading. What really strikes me is the lack of confidence of a number of writers of his actual ability to do a good job or even their feeling that he will likely do a terrible job, but at least he will shake things up. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ters-speak-out "Do I like Trump’s platform? No, I think most of it is silly and misguided, but at least it is not the same bullshit casserole that has been on the menu in Washington DC for as long as I have been alive." "It isn’t a vote for Trump, but rather a vote against the political establishment (which must be removed from office at any cost – even if it means electing a reality TV star for president)." "I believe that it is too late for a conventional cure. So, there is Trump. He is indeed a buffoon and a recipe for disaster. If he were to do half of the horrific things he says he would, he would be a catastrophe. He could be a blend of Hitler and Hirohito. That’s why I would vote for him." "It’s not that I like Trump. It’s that I hate those who can’t stand him." There is a destructiveness underlying this that is leading nowhere good. When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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So what you're saying is that if Trump makes it into office that I should pack my family up and move to another country?
As a conservative voter I'm really sad by the options at hand. Like, I'm horrified personally. Will I vote the candidate that best fits my beliefs, yes. Will I be pleased with that option...not likely. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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What in the fuck is even going on? In the last twelve hours, Romney got in the fray, Christie denied being a hostage, Trump told us he has a big schlong and Cruz ate a booger. I'm terrified of a Trump presidency but I'm far more scared of the mindset of his supporters. Even if Trump loses, either the nomination or the general, that mindset isn't going away and I have no idea how to placate it. It's not even left-right anymore, it's just angry, pissed off people looking for anyone to stoke their feelings. I'd much rather take bullshit-as-usual over this guy. Maybe that's easy for me to say because bullshit-as-usual has been pretty good to me but I have a bad feeling about this. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424...thoritarianism
This is quite the fascinating (long) article, and worth the read. It honestly does a pretty good job of diving into the whys behind the psychology leading to the rise of demagogues, without passing overt judgment of the supporters themselves. I'd love to see the underlying research more closely, I should seek it out. They do lay into Trump a bit as the exemplar demagogue, but this type of article, or research, isn't going to be written by someone who thinks it's a natural evolution of politics. It takes a "Buhwha? What the hell?" moment to want to find out the whys. tl;dr: Fear and insecurity due to abstract circumstances real, artificial, or imagined, *if* a human face can be put to them, drive a particular psychological profile to demand someone, anyone, take charge for them, and do whatever is possible (not necessary) to make the fear go away. This profile is not inherently right-wing or left-wing, but latent until specific *external* stressors trigger it. It is much deeper than simplistic and shallow labels of bigotry (in any direction) or xenophobia. Why it has converged at this point in time, in one political party, is really quite interesting. What's less interesting and more concerning, however, is what it means moving forward. This isn't about Trump, this is about a segment of the populace. |
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Formerly “AWM”
Join Date: May 2009
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I'm not thrilled with any of these candidates. I haven't voted in a Presidential election since '92 and I doubt that will change but it is easy to see why Trump is attracting followers and it isn't a yearning to turn the country into a dictatorship like that horrible article someone posted says. It's simply that he talks about issues that people are worried about but the others can't speak to because they are owned. A perfect example is artificially low interest rates. Trump said that for a guy like him they are great but it's not a great deal for the average person as it forces them into the shark infested waters of the rigged stock market and encourages increased debt. You will never hear another candidate say something like that. If you ask HRC she will offer the standard "no comment". She is completely owned by the banks. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if a President Trump was not much different than what we have now. I've lived in New Jersey most of my life so I've had my fair share of Trump over the years. In the end he likes to make deals and negotiate. He has been on all sides of lots of issues over the years which makes him like the others in a way. He would of course sell his Presidency as life changing but I doubt he would deliver what candidate Trump is saying. So maybe you have nothing to worry about. Last edited by addison : 2016-03-04 at 09:28. |
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@kk@pennytucker.social
Join Date: Jan 2005
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The more I think about it, the more I think having Trump actually get the nomination or hell, even win, would be a great thing for our political establishment.
We've dealt with the same nonsense from these politicians for years, and no one with enough influence has stepped up to try and move the US politicians Ina. Different direction. Trump may be crazy as a president, but then again, I could make that claim for each of the other candidates that are left at this point. No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now. |
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ಠ_ರೃ
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
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The only thing about Trump is I absolutely do not trust him to use his position, should he become president, to actually help the country. He'll probably just use it to advance his own interests. But the same could be said for any candidate. Conspicuously absent from your post was any mention of Bernie Sanders. I know he has like less than 1% chance of winning the nomination now, but he seems like someone who has not been bought by corporations and lobbyists, and he is also not a warmonger. I've heard a lot of criticism of his tax plans, some founded and some unfounded, but you have to admire his ideals. Quote:
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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I know, I know, it's dailykos, I apologize for that. Interesting datapoints however. Also, the actual bound delegate count is rather closer than being reported by lumping in super delegates - they will go as the wind blows, if the past is any indication. If Clinton's campaign stumbles in any major way, it could be anyone's nomination. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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This GOP debate tonight is the dumpster fire at the end of the world.
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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I love it. The left points fingers at the right, the right points fingers at the left.
Good stuff. Listening to polarized human politics is like watching Lions and Packers fans threaten each other over whose stadium has the best $9 hot dog. For the establishment, it's "mission accomplished". - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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...and the damn election is still seven-plus months away. Which means the true, unhinged idiocy, handwringing, pandering, atomic-level lying/promises, hyper-partisan fuckwittery, negative campaigning, attacks, character assassination and general nastiness hasn't even kicked in yet.
We're still in the preliminary "weed out the day-players, wannabes and no-chancers and narrow it down to the true, full-tilt mental patients, wastes-of-space, ego cases and bullcrap artisans who'll actually land the gig" phase. Believe it or not - and as funny/unbelievable as it sounds - right now is as "civil" and sane as this whole thing is going to be. Remember that, 4-5 months from now... Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2016-03-11 at 11:40. |
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ಠ_ರೃ
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
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Once you reach the general election, you have to pander to all those middle of the road voters who don't want an insane person running the country (too late!). So I guess pandering and lying promises go up, hyper-partisanry and nastiness maybe go down a little. If Trump wins the nomination, it'll be interesting to see if he'll be able to rein in his overt racism or if he'll keep shooting his mouth off. |
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Formerly “AWM”
Join Date: May 2009
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We've had a number of anti establishment types make it through. Just in the modern era we had Goldwater in '64. He was loathed by the ruling class. Then we had back to back ones in Carter and Reagan. Neither were the choice of insiders. Most big money went to others. The bigger problem is that most of the times these people end up getting co opted once in office.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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I find the idea that Trump is an anti-establishment candidate to be farcical. He's part of the donor class he so fervently claims to despise and has admitted so himself.
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Formerly “AWM”
Join Date: May 2009
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Since the entire Republican establishment is against him and mounting various campaigns to stop him I guess you could say he is anti establishment? As far as donations he has said he was trying to buy influence. People find it refreshing to hear someone admit it. Now go ask Hillary the same question. She says people just want to hear her talk for hundreds of thousands of dollars and not expect anything in return. Like Sanders said, must be one hell of a speech.
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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The Ides of March are upon us. Today we find out if Trump takes 1237 before the convention or if we're heading for absolute chaos in Cleveland. The pundits in my Twitter timeline all agree that if Trump loses Ohio, he likely can't clinch the nomination—there's just no path with the remaining states for him to reach that, especially if the race narrows, since the calendar reverts back to mostly closed proportional states after this. Trump generally does poorly in closed states and if the race is reduced to just him and Cruz, proportional states won't help Trump get to 1237 fast enough, since he'll just keep splitting delegates with Cruz.
Kasich has so far held on to his polling lead in his home state, making the chaos scenario very likely. Florida has the potential to be the biggest surprise of the cycle so far. Polls favor Trump but one has early voting returns going two-to-one to Rubio, albeit of a very small sample. We're also going to find out exactly how the violence of the last few days plays in these states. Trump has brought the racial identity politics of the Left squarely into the realm of the white Right, but we have yet to see if that will be embraced by GOP primary voters who don't see themselves as disaffected or left behind—and those are the key voters in closed primary states, since so many of the potential voters who sign on to Trump's world view aren't registered Republicans, so they can't vote in four of the five states in play today. In any case, this graph nicely sums up exactly why the GOP contest this year is so fucked up: |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Trump is a bit like Apple in this regard. Pay very little to the media, and as a a consequence, get a lot of bad press, which you then use to your advantage.
Ha-larious! - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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They're his fluffers, not his critics. |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
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At least, I think. |
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Formerly “AWM”
Join Date: May 2009
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As far as the rallies if you were running a cable channel you'd be doing the same thing. He brings ratings. As soon as they cut away the ratings drop. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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I'm not entirely sure that Trump isn't doing all of this for the lulz. There is no way that he thought he'd get as far as he is today, so I truly think he's just winging it now to see how far he can go with changing positions daily, obvious lying and spouting utter nonsense.
I'm 75% sure it's a Trump Production™ on how he single-handedly ripped the Republican Party to pieces. King of the Birthers, Tea Party Favorite, etc. They love a loud, self-assured asshole, so for better or worse they got what they wanted. But as a Presidential candidate. So yeah, all their blustering anti-everything heros don't look so sane now. So it goes. Last edited by 709 : 2016-03-15 at 17:07. |
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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They can't, and that's the entire problem. There is no seriousness to be had. It's all reactionary now, and that pretty much leaves them with nothing underfoot.
So it goes. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Holy Shit did Rubio just drop out? That's huge.
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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So there we have it. Clinton has likely won all 5 states from the 03.15 round, and probably gained the Democratic nomination in the process.
I hate her, but that's a bridge to cross before November. It looks like a Kasich victory in Ohio, which means absolutely fuck-all for Kasich. What this does mean is an absolute firestorm clusterfuck of epic schadenfreude while we watch Republicans eat their own young live on FOX. So it goes. |
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@kk@pennytucker.social
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Rubio dropping out seems to seal the deal for Trump.
This is crazy. This entire cycle is nuts, on both sides. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Hillary R. Clinton vs Donald J. Trump
What the fuck? what the fuck. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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There is no way, ever, that we're going towards a brokered convention. Trump will be the nominee (until he falls down and dies.... 50/50 he dies before June).
So it goes. |
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