User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » AppleOutsider »

Question about US Election campaign


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Question about US Election campaign
Page 4 of 61 Previous 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8  Next Last Thread Tools
Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2016-04-11, 15:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I have always thought Trump's campaign was like Richard Prior's campaign in Brewster's Millions. Not really trying for office, just stir the pot and make waves.
I've been told that one of his former staffers said that's exactly what he was trying to do at first, before he realized that he might actually pull it off.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2016-04-11, 22:42

It's like what does a dog do when he actually catches that car? He doesn't know what to do with it. Trump is scary as a candidate because he's so disorganized and reliant on media hype. If he can't keep his campaign straight, how is he going to run the country?

I hate Cruz but at least he knows what he's doing. And I think the Republican establishment realizes that. Much as they hate him, he's their guy now and they'll hold their nose and vote for him. It's their fault for not taking the offensive earlier and coalescing behind a more traditional establishment candidate like Bush or Rubio. They don't have a great shot at winning no matter who is nominated, but at least Cruz gives them a chance.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2016-04-11, 23:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
It's like what does a dog do when he actually catches that car? He doesn't know what to do with it. Trump is scary as a candidate because he's so disorganized and reliant on media hype. If he can't keep his campaign straight, how is he going to run the country?

I hate Cruz but at least he knows what he's doing. And I think the Republican establishment realizes that. Much as they hate him, he's their guy now and they'll hold their nose and vote for him. It's their fault for not taking the offensive earlier and coalescing behind a more traditional establishment candidate like Bush or Rubio. They don't have a great shot at winning no matter who is nominated, but at least Cruz gives them a chance.
But that's the thing—they did coalesce behind Bush to the tune of $100 million. It's just that nobody who isn't named Reince Preibus actually wanted him to be president.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2016-04-21, 09:47

I don't get a vote, but if I did, it'd be for Sanders both for Democratic nominee and for President. If I had to hold my nose and vote for one of the Republicans still in it, I'd vote Kasich. If I had no choice to keep Trump or Cruz out of the White House, I'd vote for Hillary. Does that make me 50% Democrat, and 33% republican?

.........................................
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2016-04-21, 10:00

It makes you pragmatic.

Seriously, this election cycle is a fucking dumpster fire. I'd give my left nut for a third-term Obama over anyone currently in the race.

So it goes.
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2016-04-21, 11:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
It makes you pragmatic.

Seriously, this election cycle is a fucking dumpster fire. I'd give my left nut for a third-term Obama over anyone currently in the race.
Four more years of war and meddling abroad and a rickety bubble economy run for a few at home? Count me out. You'll get that from both HRC and Ted anyway. Probably Trump too. If you offered a third term to Obama I doubt he'd even want it. He just wants to get out of town before the economy falls apart and go collect his tens of millions of dollars as an ex President.
  quote
Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
 
2016-04-21, 19:01

There's no evidence of a bubble... but whatevs.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2016-04-25, 15:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by addison View Post
Four more years of war and meddling abroad and a rickety bubble economy run for a few at home? Count me out. You'll get that from both HRC and Ted anyway. Probably Trump too. If you offered a third term to Obama I doubt he'd even want it. He just wants to get out of town before the economy falls apart and go collect his tens of millions of dollars as an ex President.
You might recall that Clinton was SoS under Obama for most of that, and while, sure, it's an advisory role, she pretty much advised 'bombs not bread' in every instance, pushing for involvement in some cases. Do I blame Obama for listening to (hell, even appointing) her warhawk ass? Absolutely.

To say that Obama hasn't turned the economy around (from a Republican President's mess, which is tradition) is laughable. See how well completely controlled Republican States are doing for a litmus. Kansas, Wisconsin, Michigan (fuck you, Snyder), etc. Tax cuts for business and business owners are the answer, obviously. Trickle down my ass, Reagan.

And the economy is only falling apart if we go bankrupt building walls, impose Christian Sharia law, or invade everyone that makes Hillary itchy. That is, I agree that Obama wants to get to a private bunker somewhere to protect his kids, because those are our options.

So it goes.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2016-04-26, 12:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
...impose Christian Sharia law...
Who is going to impose this "Christian Sharia law" you fear so much?
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2016-04-26, 12:55

It's a tongue-in-cheek terminology for the policies of Mr Cruz. It's not meant to be taken literally.
  quote
Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2016-04-26, 21:51

It looks like it is all Trump and mostly Hillary tonight in the primaries in five northeastern states. A Trump versus Clinton showdown for the presidency appears increasingly likely. First, however, the Republicans will have to survive a nasty convention that runs the risk of seeing the GOP implode. The Democratic convention is likely to be uncomfortable as well, but somewhat less nasty.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2016-04-26, 22:12

I have to admit, I'm looking forward to the fireworks personally. From both the Republicans and the Democrats. The Republicans though, this is the first image that came to my mind when thinking about the fight that's about to go down:

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2016-04-26, 23:25

It's going to be a photo finish. Trump may very well get the 1237 he needs after Indiana and California, but since he's still relying on a number of unbound delegates, we won't really know until the first ballot in Cleveland.

I'm seeing a lot rumors about drafting General James Mattis. I doubt it'll be him specifically but at this point I'd lay money on either a dark horse nominee at the GOP convention or a legitimate third-party bid (sorry Gary Johnson, you don't count).
  quote
Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Send a message via AIM to Capella  
2016-04-27, 07:00

I'm personally disappointed in where the Democrats are heading, but I am sharing the popcorn view of the GOP. I just wish this wasn't gonna actually affect us so badly - if this was only a TV show plot.

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2016-04-27, 10:05

No matter which clown-party is elected, it's going to affect us badly.
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2016-04-27, 10:51

We had a chance with Bernie Sanders. We blew it. Guess we'll keep giving handouts to huge companies while disparaging the poor who actually need help. Maybe start another war while we're at it.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2016-04-27, 14:07

You know, this really does look like something we would expect from a reality TV show doesn't it. I just hope more than anything our country doesn't actually suffer from this.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2016-04-27, 14:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
No matter which clown-party is elected, it's going to affect us badly.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
We had a chance with Bernie Sanders. We blew it. Guess we'll keep giving handouts to huge companies while disparaging the poor who actually need help. Maybe start another war while we're at it.
Sanders' populist rhetoric tickles the ears, but the ideology behind it will accelerate the country's demise. The U.S. is a rich country so it will take longer, but the path would always end where Venezuela is right now.

The government has literally hundreds of policies to aid the poor. Probably thousands, if you add in state and local governments.

I hate corporate handouts as much as anyone (with a particular revulsion for aiding sports franchises), but saying current poverty levels are the result of too few government programs is really hard to digest.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2016-04-27, 14:28

That is so true. The government never did handle money well because they have this idea they will just take the money from those making it in their country. We don't need more government programs, that removes the desire in others to succeed. A bigger government is not what we need at all.

/me Exits the political side of the talk.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2016-04-27, 15:54

I'm not advocating just throwing money at poor people, or turning our country into a communist welfare state. I don't think Sanders is saying that either, and on top of that, even if that's his rhetoric, he's smart enough to know that he'll never get everything that he wishes for. Were he to become president, he'd have to fight for every inch and any reforms he does pass would be far less extreme. Keep in mind that it is primary season and that means appealing to your base. As a liberal, what worries me about Clinton is that she's already meeting the Republicans halfway before the discussion has even started.

And even if you don't agree with creating huge government programs to help those in need, it still pisses me off that the wealthiest companies continually get government handouts and blatantly skirt our tax laws. And when they get caught breaking the law, nobody gets in trouble. How much do we have to coddle these jerks?

Let's start with 1) ending corporate welfare, 2) closing tax loopholes so everyone pays their fair share, and 3) not getting involved in more wars. Just doing those things, in the absence of any other reforms, would go a long way toward helping our government remain solvent and able to fund its existing obligations. And I don't believe they are particularly controversial ideas.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2016-04-27, 16:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
Keep in mind that it is primary season and that means appealing to your base.
Not referencing you personally Luca. But it's interesting how this idea often appears when discussing Democratic candidates while it's generally assumed that all the rhetoric spouted by those on the Republican side will be enacted once they're elected.

I'll be more specific. Ted Cruz is an effective, disciplined and strategic organizer. He's run a data-driven campaign, and organized his state campaigns and delegates better than anyone's ever seen. He's also skillfully used his father's pastoral connections to build an effective base of evangelical support, which is crucial to winning the GOP nomination.

Based on his CV, which I think is the best of all the candidates, and the skill he's shown at leadership and managing such a vast, nationwide effort with such entrenched opposition on all sides, he would get my vote if I were an American.

But anyone who thinks Ted Cruz is going to outlaw abortion or same-sex marriage, or really enact any kind of "Christian sharia law" once elected, is a lunatic.
  quote
Kickaha
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2016-04-27, 16:09

Quote:
And I don't believe they are particularly controversial ideas.
You'd be surprised. Don't forget, there's still a substantial segment of the populace that believes in trickle down economics, even though every shred of evidence is to the contrary.

The American Dream has become the American Mythical Carrot. "We can't do anything to impact the mega-rich because *that might be me some day*!" Bullshit. Utter bullshit, but it still drives desperate people to make stupid, self-harming decisions in their political choices.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2016-04-27, 16:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
Let's start with 1) ending corporate welfare, 2) closing tax loopholes so everyone pays their fair share, and 3) not getting involved in more wars. Just doing those things, in the absence of any other reforms, would go a long way toward helping our government remain solvent and able to fund its existing obligations. And I don't believe they are particularly controversial ideas.
Numbers 1 and 2 are part of most accepted conservative tax plans, but flat tax proposals get killed in the public square because everyone seems to have one particular exemption they want kept in. (Deducting mortgage interest is insanely popular in the US, but subsidizing debt is crazy long-term public policy.)

Here's in Canada, current thinking is starting to hold that the only way to start down the path of ending corporate welfare is to publish an annual "sunshine list" of all companies receiving government grants and subsidies.

As for number 3, the way the world is moving I'm not sure that's possible. There's unrest all over the planet, and there are a number of people who seriously think a worldwide debt crisis coupled with current instability could lead us down a very hard road. Practically every region in the world is vulnerable to a serious economic crisis right now. I think the next President has to have serious intellectual and leadership abilities, and strong principles backed by great negotiation skills. Even then, we will be extremely blessed if this all ends well.
  quote
Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Send a message via AIM to Capella  
2016-04-27, 19:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

But anyone who thinks Ted Cruz is going to outlaw abortion or same-sex marriage, or really enact any kind of "Christian sharia law" once elected, is a lunatic.
Can I ask why you think that's a lunatic position? So. Many. Republican-controlled states have passed laws effectively outlawing abortion by restricting it so severely. While I know the President can't pass state laws, I strongly believe with Cruz in charge, there would be strong will from the top to encourage the further encroachment on a woman's body and the medical decisions between her and her doctor. Especially if the people voting for him will vote in the same election for other people sharing those views (like state legislators who can pass more laws).

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder
  quote
Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2016-04-27, 21:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capella View Post
Can I ask why you think that's a lunatic position? So. Many. Republican-controlled states have passed laws effectively outlawing abortion by restricting it so severely. While I know the President can't pass state laws, I strongly believe with Cruz in charge, there would be strong will from the top to encourage the further encroachment on a woman's body and the medical decisions between her and her doctor. Especially if the people voting for him will vote in the same election for other people sharing those views (like state legislators who can pass more laws).
Cruz can encourage more encroachment until he's blue in the face, but if any given state's legislature doesn't have the votes to pass such a law, it's not getting passed. Likewise, if they *do* have the votes, they won't need permission or encouragement to try.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
  quote
El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2016-04-28, 13:32

I'd take a look at this article.

Then I would do some serious looking into the turnout numbers for both Republicans and Democrats.

I expect the conventions, both of them, to be perfunctory events. The stakes are too high and anyone who has lost, especially on the Republican side have already fallen in line too quickly. The promised fireworks are the hopes of news channels desperate for ratings.

From the article....

Quote:
Trump capturing the nomination will not dispel the smug style; if anything, it will redouble it. Faced with the prospect of an election between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the smug will reach a fever pitch: six straight months of a sure thing, an opportunity to mock and scoff and ask, How could anybody vote for this guy? until a morning in November when they ask, What the fuck happened?
The moneyshot as it were....

Quote:
It is impossible, in the long run, to cleave the desire to help people from the duty to respect them
Even if the two could be separated, would it be worth it? What kind of political movement is predicated on openly disdaining the very people it is advocating for?

The smug style, at bottom, is a failure of empathy. Further: It is a failure to believe that empathy has any value at all. It is the notion that anybody worthy of liberal time and attention and respect must capitulate, immediately, to the Good Facts.

If they don't (and they won't, no matter how much of your Facts you make them consume), you're free to write them off and mock them. When they suffer, it's their just desserts.
The reason a Donald Trump even exists, in my opinion, is because poor working class whites CANNOT exist. In a land of white privilege, how can they ever lose? You only lose because of -ists practicing an -ism. The poor and ignorant whites are a figment of our imagination and if they aren't then they deserve what they get anyway because of bad choices. No other group engages in bad choices, they just suffer from systematic oppression. If I'm full of shit it is okay because you KNOW better.

Now I am not even a Trump supporter but it is hard to deny the train that is coming down the tracks. The patterns are pretty clear and given the comments in here, I expect to see a lot of "What the fuck happened?" coming from certain people.

Clinton is a terrible candidate. People are rationalizing away facts about her that would have already killed any other candidate even attempting to run. Instead she and the party elites ignore them and they also ignore her rising negatives and bleeding support. In a poll you have to pick a candidate but what many people can and have been doing is just choosing to stay home. They show their disdain by not even showing up. Democratic turnout for primary races has been dramatically lower than the last couple of presidential elections. In 2008 Clinton did the same thing. The more people focused on her and the deeper into the cycle, the less support she had. She bled away a 20+ point lead to Obama in 2008. I haven't heard a single person be enthusiastic for Clinton. It feels more like resignation to pull the lever for her as the lesser of two evils more than anything else. No one seems to like her or want her as their first choice.

Trump is on pace to have more than 10 million people vote for him for president in the primary. That is more than Romney, or McCain in the last two elections. Now the key point should be if 10 million people is still only narrowly giving him the nomination, then how big will Republican turn out be this year or additionally, who are these new voters and what are they going to do come the fall?

Remember Reagan was an idiotic actor.
George W Bush was practically retarded.

From 2008 to 2012, Republicans gained one million voters and Democrats lost 4 million voters. Since Obama was elected Republicans have captured over 900 state house seats and the House and Senate.

I'm just throwing that out there because there is more than just thinking you are smart or having all the answers. That is the smugness that stops the actions happening that can win hearts and minds. Thinking you can't be wrong because X comedian eviscerated Y conservative caricature with a long unchallenged rant is EXACTLY the type of thinking that loses elections.

That of course doesn't guarantee a Trump win, nothing of the sort. However it is certainly in the realm of plausibility where as based on the reasoning I see here, it isn't even possible. It's more than possible. It is quite probable.
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2016-04-28, 14:02

I think Trump is going to win.

And as a result of that, the USA will become a international laughing stock. A punchline.

That's pretty sad, but it's been coming for while. I'll feel bad for you when it happens.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2016-04-28, 14:08

I'm still holding out a small hope that Biden enters the race when Hillary's chickens come home to roost.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2016-04-28, 14:18

I'm still holding out a small hope that a nuclear bomb will land on Washington DC sometime between now and August.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2016-04-28, 14:28

Thanks Obama!

(They'd still find a way to blame it on him, after all.)
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 4 of 61 Previous 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8  Next Last

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Obama's new campaign ad... PKIDelirium AppleOutsider 21 2018-11-15 13:29
Election Day theme kieran Feedback 30 2008-11-06 00:32
How are YOU watching the election? Fahrenheit AppleOutsider 58 2008-11-05 03:45
New Mac ad campaign defaultmike Speculation and Rumors 40 2006-07-13 07:10
The Campaign (the new iMac, not the other one) psmith2.0 General Discussion 51 2004-09-09 21:43


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:53.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2024, AppleNova