[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by Barto Also, if Shinto has influenced society so much, how come Japan is supposedly more racist than America - home of evangelical Christianity.

Hmm. I'm no fan of modern mainstream American Christianity, and the evangelicals in particular chap my hide... but let me see if I can clarify.

Shinto, as I understand it, says that from the very beginning, anyone not Japanese is not human. Not that they're lesser humans, but that they are *not* human. I don't know of any other religion that has that as one of its bases. Judaism/Christianity (and most any other religion) has the concept of God's Chosen People, but that implies and recognizes that there *are* other people. Shinto, taken literally, states that anyone not Japanese isn't even *real*, so what happens to them is of no consequence morally, ethically, or theologically. It's not even a question that needs to be asked.

You may call this racist, I just call it xenophobic - which to me is much more fundamentally 'basic'. Racism is the pre-judgment of another human based on their skin color or background. Xenophobia is the fear of *anyone not just like you*. Japan has had a major issue with the latter for centuries - witness the cultural cataclysm that occurred after contact with Western Naval forces. Suddenly their land went from the center of the world to being a little island off to side.

Sure, there are idiots who warp and twist fundamental Christianity precepts into a justification for racism in this country - but in Shinto there's no warping or twisting *needed*. That's the difference. A couple dozen centuries of such a basic assumption in one's society has far ranging and subtle effects that can't really be teased out and pointed at explicitly, but will color large-scale cultural trends.

I'm not saying the Japanese are as a whole racist, but I think that it is a shorter step for their culture to *get* there, if that makes any sense.

or that these views are significantly more mainstream than elsewhere.

How about the fact that these manga are best-sellers? When was the last time you saw Mein Kampf or the KKK Manifesto on the NY Times Best Seller List?

This is what I'm talking about - such tracts would be reviled here, and most places. In Japan though, they're seen as, if not acceptable, at least intriguing and thought-provoking. I contend it is because of a deeply rooted feeling that has its start in the oldest religion on the island. I don't think that if you were to ask Japanese *individuals* that you'd find a high percentage that are explicitly racist, but it's not the individuals I'm talking about, it's the cultural fabric, and there, I *do* believe that there is a stronger tendency to accept an Us vs. Them mentality without too much question.

[v.noir]

Oh come now AWR, Chinese isn't so difficult! Maybe!

[intlplby]

yes it is... plus the 4th tone makes it sound like all of china is an aviary

if it weren't for the 4th tone it would be a very pleasant language

the truth is that chinese has about 44 sounds and so does english

written wise let's assume that a character in chinese is approximately equivelant to a morpheme or phoneme in english

english has 1100 different ways to spell those sounds (thanks to the great vowel shift mainly)...

chinese on the other hand has 5000 commonly used characters and about 30000 total

that's a lot more than english

[Ichiban_jay]

Originally Posted by AWR FWIW, the Japanese came up with types two and three to make it easier to (1) deal with more subtle grammar and (2) foreign words. With these two additional alphabets, which are very easy to learn, they now only have to use about 1,800 - 2,000 Kanji pictograms. That said, while it is certainly more complicated than the roman alphabet, it's nothing like Chinese in terms of difficulty. (But you probably already know this as your name is Number 1 Jay, Nihongo de...)

Yup My first teddy bear's name... Number 1! HAHA, Yes I know its sad, but I really did love that teddy bear, it even held my money. One time it got so heavy full of change that it was a deadly weapon.

Since my family is technically quadlingual (spelling???) English, Mandarin, Japanese, Taiwanese, and a bit of spanish. I have to say, japanese seems to most complicated out of all. English and spanish are easier because they only have the roman alphabet, chinese has two forms (not including simplified and traditional), a form like that of the alphabet for children/pronounciation, and the traditional variety. And then there is Japanese...

Now if we can just meld all languages:
-roman alphabet
-no irregulars
-no conjugations
-no past and future tenses, just add "tomorrow" or "yesterday" for time meanings

So a sentence could be: I go store yesterday.

Now that I think of it, Chinese and Japanese are equally hard. One is more bubbly, and the other one more rigid.

[Kickaha]

I think you want Esperanto...

[BlueRabbit]

Or Newspeak.

[AWR]

Originally Posted by Ichiban_jay Now that I think of it, Chinese and Japanese are equally hard. One is more bubbly, and the other one more rigid.

Really? I don't know squat about Chinese, but I do know that it is a tonal language and uses a considerably higher number of characters than Japanese.

I found/find Japanese the easiest of the foreign languages that I have studied. First, for an English speaker, it is easy to say every word, as we have all of their sounds (with the minor exception of ra, ri, r(y)u, re, ro, which are pretty easy nevertheless). SU-SHI, JU-DO, TO-YO-TA, I-KE-BA-NA,...

Second, compared to Spanish and French, the grammar is straightforward, especially the past and present/future.

And while learning to read and write Japanese is time consuming, it is not difficult per se.

On the other hand, French sux. Not as a language, but the learning process is slow. You can NEVER say anything like a native (like Chinese) (unlike Japanese) and the grammar and spelling is difficult from the get go.

Sorry to go off thread, but I find it an interesting subject.

Back on topic. Like chucker has said, the Germans and Japanese are on the opposite sides of the measuring stick when dealing with/accepting their past. IMO, the Americans as a people maintain the middle ground, accepting their role in the decimation of the native American population, but ignorant of the consequences of American policies in Latin America during the 20th century.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by AWR but ignorant of the consequences of American policies in Latin America during the 20th century.

Aw c'mon, New Mexico is doing *fine*.