[Quagmire]

So the store is somewhat up and shows an updated Mac Pro.


Specs are up. Very weak update if that.....

Three models.....

Quad-Core

One 3.2 Ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon
6 GB of RAM
1 TB HD
Superdrive
ATI Radeon 5770 1 GB of VRAM

$2499

12-core

Two 2.4 Ghz 6 core Intel Xeon
12 GB of ram
1 TB HD
Superdrive
Radeon 5770 1 GB of VRAM

$3,799

Server is same as the quad core with Lion server, 8 GB of ram, and 2 1 TB HD's.....

[psmith2.0]

Yep, I just posted in the general WWDC thread. Showing the blue "NEW" label above the Mac Pro's pic (along with the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro), but when you click on the image to go that product's section, the "store is down" graphic keeps coming up.

Basically, the iMac and Mac mini didn't get updated...and that's fine because I can see the two of them making a nice one-two punch, along with new iLife and/or iWork suites, in a standalone press event in the next several months.

A late-summer "let's give the mobile stuff a rest...we're sick of hearing about nothing but notebooks and iOS stuff too" event.

Say, somewhere in the August-y timeframe? Then skip a month and by the time we're all coming down from that, new iPhones in October!

[Mugge]

Dafuq?! No Thunderbolt ports? Didn't they feel like making a new case for it?

[nikstar101]

The specs are up now. It seems only a Processor upgrade, same graphics card and everything else! Gutted

2.4Ghz 12 Core Processor or a 3.2Ghz Quad Core.

No Thunderbolt, which is hugely disappointing!

[Robo]

Hahaha, Apple be trollin'.

[Quagmire]

Updated first post with specs. Lame update..... It's not even a CPU update.... The CPU's still appear to be Nehalem and Westmere's.....

[Robo]

Well, the 12-core model is a lot cheaper, at least. Didn't it used to be $4,999?

[Moogs]

Apple is going to kill this line within 12 months. Mark my words, it'll go like this in the conference call:

"Well we updated and had very low sales; we feel there interest just isn't there. Time to move on. Our Pros love the new Macbook Retina!"

You give us new processors a bit more RAM, outdated GPUs, no new expansion options... and charge us either $5000 or $6100 for the privilege depending on whether we get the 2.66 or 3.06 GHz????!

FU Apple. That is insulting. You would've been better offer not changing anything or making this change and dropping the price. This is just crap.

[nikstar101]

Are these even the new Sandy Bridge E processors?? Or are they suped up Westmere (or what ever they were called?)? I must admit this is a hugely disappointing update. I imagine that they didn't know technically how to add a Thunderbolt port to a mac with a removable graphics card. Asus have a pass through cable but that seems very un-Apple like.

But even without that, surely Apple could have up-rated the graphics card sans Thunderbolt. The ATI 7000 seri2es is been out for long enough now. I mean the 5000 series is 2-3 years old!

The only good thing is that i feel my Quad 2.93Ghz 2009 model still looks respectable with this new line-up

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Are these even the new Sandy Bridge E processors?? Or are they suped up Westmere (or what ever they were called?)? I must admit this is a hugely disappointing update. I imagine that they didn't know technically how to add a Thunderbolt port to a mac with a removable graphics card. Asus have a pass through cable but that seems very un-Apple like.

They are still Nehalem and Westmere CPU's.....

EDIT: The Intel Xeon W3565 is a Bloomfield.....

[nikstar101]

Originally Posted by Moogs Apple is going to kill this line within 12 months. Mark my words, it'll go like this in the conference call: "Well we updated and had very low sales; we feel there interest just isn't there. Time to move on. Our Pros love the new Macbook Retina!" You give us new processors a bit more RAM, outdated GPUs, no new expansion options... and charge us either $5000 or $6100 for the privilege depending on whether we get the 2.66 or 3.06 GHz????! FU Apple. That is insulting. You would've been better offer not changing anything or making this change and dropping the price. This is just crap.

Moogs, i fear you are right. I held off sying that earlier as i didn't want to some liek the bringer of doom but i cannot see how this is a value for money purchase . Even at Apple prices it doesn't make sense. Thunderbolt, new graphics, an SSD as standard with a second HD for mass storage all at the same price and you have a winner.

Oddly (although slightly off topic) I feel that they should have updated the Mac Mini with Ivy Bridge and at least people could switch to that!

Quagmire: I cannot believe that. This gets even more ridiculous! Sandy Bridge E has been out for a month or so now (mainstream) so there is no reason for not-upgrading it. I guess maybe to save costs on a dying line??

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 I imagine that they didn't know technically how to add a Thunderbolt port to a mac with a removable graphics card. Asus have a pass through cable but that seems very un-Apple like.

I think it's very unlike Apple, not being able to solve that problem. This update just stinks of laziness.

[Axl]

This update is on par with the G4 MHz craptastic update.

[Moogs]

This upgrade is dog shit. RIP Mac Pro.

There is no way Jobs would've ever done this IMO. He would've just left it alone or killed it today. This is so half-assed. It reminds me of all the other companies I can't stand who try to convince me their half-assed stuff is really great.

I seriously have to think now about whether I switch platforms because I need a real screen to do my work and I doubt even the Retina screen is a wide gamut option. Nor do I think driving a large high gamut screen from a mobile GPU is going to work well. It's either going to be Macbook Retina after some glowing reviews on color / GPU performance, or I fear I have to switch. So disappointing they handled it like this.

[Jason]

The stock RAM did jump to 12Gb from 6gb but as people are saying, the writing is on the wall for this now.

[nikstar101]

Originally Posted by Mugge I think it's very unlike Apple, not being able to solve that problem. This update just stinks of laziness.

They could have even gone for an internal pass-through able if they were feeling lazy but actually cared. But there must be some way of directing the video back through the PCI solts and out via a motherboard mounted Thunderbolt port. I cannot believe that pass-through cables are going to standard of all desktop machines without integrated graphics?!

Originally Posted by Moogs This upgrade is dog shit. RIP Mac Pro. There is no way Jobs would've ever done this IMO. He would've just left it alone or killed it today. This is so half-assed. It reminds me of all the other companies I can't stand who try to convince me their half-assed stuff is really great. I seriously have to think now about whether I switch platforms because I need a real screen to do my work and I doubt even the Retina screen is a wide gamut option. Nor do I think driving a large high gamut screen from a mobile GPU is going to work well. It's either going to be Macbook Retina after some glowing reviews on color / GPU performance, or I fear I have to switch. So disappointing they handled it like this.

I know what you mean. Unfortunately there is nothing on Apple's line-up that even comes close to the Mac Pro. Mac Mini is painfully underpowered (certainly in the graphics department) and the best you could do is have a Mac Book pro and link it up to an external screen! And what's the point of that!

Update: Just noticed it still only has USB 2. I mean they even released machines today with USB 3 for crying out loud. I imagine it also still uses SATA II not III so all the new fancy SSDs won't go that fast either.

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 I know what you mean. Unfortunately there is nothing on Apple's line-up that even comes close to the Mac Pro. Mac Mini is painfully underpowered (certainly in the graphics department) and the best you could do is have a Mac Book pro and link it up to an external screen! And what's the point of that!

Well some people will do that just to maintain the mobility but it limits the size of the screen you can use on your desktop. One thing I read already is that it could be new GPUs won't show up until Mountain Lion (drivers) but in that case, why do ANYTHING right now? Just wait, get newer CPUs and GPUs in there, then announce on a random Tuesday in July after ML's big day.

I think we're seeing a difference between Cook and Jobs here. Details aren't just about smooth corners and glassy looks and awesome tech; it's also about timing and making things easy for your customers and value. This product fails miserably on all three counts. There is no apologizing for the price points on these hacked together at the last minute updates. And I suspect that is exactly what it is... they didn't plan it this way they just slapped it together in order to appear "responsive".

[alcimedes]

This makes my last revision seem like a champ now.

[nikstar101]

Originally Posted by Moogs Well some people will do that just to maintain the mobility but it limits the size of the screen you can use on your desktop. One thing I read already is that it could be new GPUs won't show up until Mountain Lion (drivers) but in that case, why do ANYTHING right now? Just wait, get newer CPUs and GPUs in there, then announce on a random Tuesday in July after ML's big day. I think we're seeing a difference between Cook and Jobs here. Details aren't just about smooth corners and glassy looks and awesome tech; it's also about timing and making things easy for your customers and value. This product fails miserably on all three counts. There is no apologizing for the price points on these hacked together at the last minute updates. And I suspect that is exactly what it is... they didn't plan it this way they just slapped it together in order to appear "responsive".

I agree. If they really wanted to give the Mac Pro a good upgrade they would have waited. It is very very un-Apple-like to throw out a quick upgrade that isn't ready. This was deliberate. To be honest i am concerned they released it today hoping that it would get buried by the news of the new Mac Book Pro (a bit of clever PR).

Hell i might get the ATI 5870 upgrade card for my 2009 Mac Pro and it will be practically like a brand new Mac Pro!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 I must admit this is a hugely disappointing update. I imagine that they didn't know technically how to add a Thunderbolt port to a mac with a removable graphics card. Asus have a pass through cable but that seems very un-Apple like.

Easy... An internal or external pass-through cable like you mentioned, pipe it back through the PCIe buss (there's gotta be a way to get the data off the card, else how does OpenCL use it?), or simply don't output the video signal there.

I agree this is a solid disappointment for us Mac Pro fans.

[Moogs]

Here's the lowdown on the MBP GPU capabilities if you need them:

Intel HD Graphics 4000 NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on up to two external displays, at millions of colors.

I'll wait to hear from others who attempt this before I'm plunking down $3800 on a laptop (which should be the price for a new 12 Core Mac Pro in its base configuration), in order to drive my screen properly.

[Eugene]

RIP. This happened far earlier than I ever imagined.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Moogs There is no way Jobs would've ever done this IMO.

Oh my glob you guys, are we seriously going to be doing the "there's no way Jobs would've done this!" thing every time Apple does something weird or disappointing now? Because Jobs' Apple did lots of disappointing and sometimes bizarre things. Remember the third-gen iPod shuffle? The one without buttons?

Not to mention that hardware revisions, even disappointing ones, aren't just thrown together in a few weeks and this update was probably planned months in advance and Jobs probably signed off on it. If it matters that much.

[Moogs]

It's the WAY it's transpiring that pisses me off. You either do things 100% right or you don't do it at all. Apple does so much right with its other products and service that this... really tarnishes that reputation of "do everything the right way". This is way corporate. This is Cook, IMO. No other way to see it.

I've apologized for a long time about the Mac Pro's "after the first 8 months value vs. it's price tag", but this... Jesus. These products are out-and-out ripoffs and I'd think even the biggest apologist could see that. No design updates, no tech updates, not even the newest / best processors... AND they jack the price up for the only two machines even worth considering!

I hope someone sends this thread and others to Apple as it grows. I'm done sending letters and links that go unanswered.

[Matsu]

But Mac Pro was a quiet update no? Not like they really talked about it? It just happened in the background of all the other stuff.

iMac and Mini updates pretty much have to come right away now. How can anyone buy an iMac without USB3 at this point?

So, maybe we'll see a retina iMac? The Apple desktop wallpapers that kicked off the Retina rumors were 3600x2000. So there's still a display we have't seen, or I like to believe there is. The retina iPad improved to an ever so slightly wider than sRGB space - just a bit short in the reds, but a bit better in the blues and greens. Likely better than any laptop or other mobile device. I'm guessing the MBP Retina is at least as good, if not better - I see great potential for tethered shooting scenarios

It's not crazy now to imagine we get an aRGB Retina for desktops. That would be pretty good, and incentive for lots of pros to move over to iMacs regardless of Mac Pro specifications. This talk of the still glossy, but improved coatings sounds interesting to me as well - the original rumors on that pointed to iMacs, so let's see. Maybe just one "iMac Pro" option to test it all out at the high end?

Another this versus that choice?

You can have an entry level Mac Pro for 2499, or this insane new iMac for 2199, or something like that.

Though isn't the 12 core machine a relatively better deal with this update? It's 3799, how much did it cost to get into one before? Maybe this update is just designed to clear out some remaining inventory, and something new is coming later...

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by Robo Oh my glob you guys, are we seriously going to be doing the "there's no way Jobs would've done this!" thing every time Apple does something weird or disappointing now? Because Jobs' Apple did lots of disappointing and sometimes bizarre things. Remember the third-gen iPod shuffle? The one without buttons? Not to mention that hardware revisions, even disappointing ones, aren't just thrown together in a few weeks and this update was probably planned months in advance and Jobs probably signed off on it. If it matters that much.

You stopped reading... go read the whole thing. I said Jobs either would've left the towers untouched until something better could've been done, or he would've killed it. Both would've been disappointments. Neither would've been a completely half-assed, lazy approach to updating a product. This is corporate culture right here, not Jobs' culture. Jobs wasn't perfect nor did he always make Pros happy with his decisions. But he did not half-ass anything IMO.

Also this to me looks very much like a last minute decision (in relative terms), not a product they started thinking about 6 months ago to update. If there had been any planning and careful thought given at all, this would not be happening right now. We'd either have something appreciably better or nothing until such time (maybe Mountain Lion with new drivers, etc) as something better could be made.

[Xaqtly]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Hell i might get the ATI 5870 upgrade card for my 2009 Mac Pro and it will be practically like a brand new Mac Pro!

That's what I did about a year ago, so it's disappointing to me that there are still no other video card upgrade options. And that the base card is still worse than the upgrade card from about 2 years ago.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly That's what I did about a year ago, so it's disappointing to me that there are still no other video card upgrade options. And that the base card is still worse than the upgrade card from about 2 years ago.

You have two options.

1) Settle for an iMac or your current Mac Pro.
2) Assemble your own very powerful Windows 7 PC slash Hackintosh.

I tried the Hackintosh route for a while, but now just use Windows 99% of the time on the PC.

[Moogs]

For the Bargain Price of $5000 you get
2.66GHz 6 Core Xeon x2
Radeon 5770
12GB 1333MHz DDR 3
1TB HD 7200RPM Drive
No USB 3
No Thunderbolt
No Reduce Price for SSD

For the Pro-friendly tag of $6200 you get
3.06 GHz 6 Core Xeon x2
et al


DUDE that is SUCH a great deal, Apple! When you're done raping me would you like to kill my dogs and piss on their graves? Oh wait, I'm not going to let that happen. No I'm actually going to spend $3200 on a MBP more likely and hope that thing will drive my screen the way I need it to. And if it doesn't I will have to sell it and go to Windows 7. Sweet. Really looking fwd to that possibility.

That OR... get a 6 core machine a lot cheaper (sort of) and bask in the glory of my new Radeon 5870 and 4 RAM slots.

[Kraetos]

Geez, why even update them, Apple? Just to slap us all in the face?