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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-05-06, 13:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I've come around on the touch bar. Now that I've customized it, I like it quite a bit.
  • Mic toggle button that's red when my mic is hot
  • Current Spotify song
  • Next event on my calendar
  • Weather
  • Tea timer
  • Current incident status or all-clear (a work thing, tells me at a glance if something's borked)
This is great. The first time I've seen a real "possibilities list" for the TB that interests me. Apple Marketing, please pay attention.

Wait...Tea Timer?
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-05-06, 14:22

Really, I've not messed with customizing my TB at all. Wonder if I can make it show my iTunes song...
  quote
Ryan
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2020-05-06, 20:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
This is great. The first time I've seen a real "possibilities list" for the TB that interests me. Apple Marketing, please pay attention.

Wait...Tea Timer?
I created a touch bar widget that counts down 150 seconds for green tea when touched. When not in use it's just the tea emoji, when in use it's a countdown clock.

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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-05-06, 20:50

Very nice use of the space. Way better than a row of mostly useless function keys.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-05-07, 03:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I created a touch bar widget that counts down 150 seconds for green tea when touched. When not in use it's just the tea emoji, when in use it's a countdown clock.

The rare instance of someone finding good uses for the Touch Bar is a breath of fresh air!
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-05-07, 14:20

Some benchmarks out. The $1,799 model is, no surprise, a bit faster than the $1,299 (in other news, water is wet).

But 16.5% more so, according to the article.

Looking at Apple's little "compare" feature on their site, that $500 gets you:

- 2.0GHz quad-core i5 (vs. 1.4GHz quad-core i5)
- Intel Iris Plus Graphics (vs. Iris Plus Graphics 645)
- 16GB RAM (vs. 8GB)
- 512GB SSD (vs. 256GB)
- Four Thunderbolt 3 ports (vs. two)

In addition to the above, the $1,799 also allows 32GB RAM and 4GB SSD configurations. The $1,299-1,499 models top out at 16GB and 2GB.

So, 600 more MHz, improved graphics, twice the RAM, twice the storage and twice the number of Thunderbolt ports, plus higher RAM/SSD BTO options.

Everything else - display, keyboard, battery life, audio specs, size/weight, color offerings, camera, wireless, etc. all seem to be the same. So if those five things above are important to you, that shakes out to $100 a pop for each to jump up to the $1,799 model.

Or, if you view it from the standpoint of what Apple charges to go from 8GB to 16GB RAM ($100) and 256GB to 512GB SSD ($200), that's $300 right there. At that point you're basically getting the faster processor, better graphics and twice the Thunderbolt ports for $200.

Kind of a no-brainer, IMO.

PS - And in another 3-4 months when refurbs of these new models start to hit Apple's site, it'll be an even better deal ($1,649-1,699 for that $1,799 model, if history is anything to go by).
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-05-07, 15:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Some benchmarks out. The $1,799 model is, no surprise, a bit faster than the $1,299 (in other news, water is wet).

But 16.5% more so, according to the article.
That headline really misses the boat (it's also mathematically wrong, but ) and I hope they change it.

It's true: the multi-core score is 16.6% higher. That's not a lot.

But also, the single-core score is 33.3% higher. That's… a fair bit. And it matters. Web browsing is something people do a lot, and will often tax just a single core. Lots of apps do.

And, as discussed in this thread (I think?), these scores only measure for a few minutes. It is very likely that the $1,799 model will sustain high speeds for a longer period of time.

If you configure the $1,299 similarly, it's $1,599 (and as you point out, you still only get half the ports). While it's not a home run quite the way the $100 CPU upgrade on the Air is (you'd be a dummy not to pick that!), this $200 difference from $1,599 to $1,799 is absolutely worth it especially if you do pro stuff with it.

Unless, of course, 8 GB RAM and/or 256 GB SSD is enough for you. In which case, I recommend the Air instead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Or, if you view it from the standpoint of what Apple charges to go from 8GB to 16GB RAM ($100) and 256GB to 512GB SSD ($200), that's $300 right there. At that point you're basically getting the faster processor, better graphics and twice the Thunderbolt ports for $200.

Kind of a no-brainer, IMO.
Yup!
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-05-07, 16:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Unless, of course, 8 GB RAM and/or 256 GB SSD is enough for you. In which case, I recommend the Air instead!
That statement is the big one, and it's why the base Pro should not exist.

Last edited by kscherer : 2020-05-07 at 17:35.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-05-07, 17:13

Would a tricked-out (processor and RAM-wise...10th-generation i7 and 16GB RAM) MacBook Air at $1,449 hold its own against the two "straggler" Pros with the 8th-generation i5 and just the 8GB RAM they come with stock?). Because once you up their processor and RAM (8th-generation 1.7GHz i7 and 16GB RAM, the most you can take those two models to), the $1,299 is suddenly $1,699 and the $1,499 model is $1,899 ($400 added to each, to max out their processor and RAM options).

At that point, a sane person (who knows how to count, and isn't on drugs) is just going to get the $1,799 model (with all the other benefits and upgrades it includes). Or they'll opt for an Air with an i5 or i7 upgrade and the 16GB RAM, which would come in at $1,299 (i5) or $1,449 (i7).

The kind of person who'd be okay with a "pro" notebook at 8GB RAM and 256GB would surely be served by an upgraded Air. There must be that sliver scenario where a specific buyer doing specific things must need that little bit extra kick from the lower-end 13" Pros, but are not going to lay out the extra $500 no matter what. And for the $1,299 or $1,499 they're paying for those lower-end Pros, their must be enough pure performance reasons they'd recognize/appreciate on a true daily basis to where those two models were attractive to them.

When you start playing with those numbers/specs, the $1,299 and $1,499 models only make sense in their stock, off-the-shelf configurations, because once you start to get cute with BTO upgrades, you're quickly smack-dab in $1,799-1,999ville. And if you leave them stock, then for less money you can get a fairly close Air with the maxed (current-generation) processor and RAM for under $1,500. They're models that don't seem to truly distinguish themselves enough in their stock configurations, but once you start tricking them out, you're better off just getting the $1,799 model.

They exist in that specific realm of "this is the ideal MacBook model for me...I'm a weirdo outlier, doing weirdo outlier things and Apple has magically read my mind at $1,299! I simply can't get it done with an Air, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend $1,800 on a laptop!".

How much real-world difference could we be talking here from a tricked-out Air to a stock $1,299/1,499 Pro, because that's the only comparison that really makes sense. The overlap is quite strong.

I guess they sell or they wouldn't be in the lineup. Just such odd duck models, regardless. Quack-quack...

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-05-07 at 17:32.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-05-07, 17:36

Value wise, I would take the Air. The numbers are so close that the performance gap isn't large enough to justify the Pro no matter what.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-05-08, 05:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
That statement is the big one, and it's why the base Pro should not exist.
I'm leaning towards agreeing. They should've just killed off the 8th-gen (what used to be the "Escape") altogether and simplify the MacBook line-up even further. Maybe they're just mostly getting rid of stock (aside from the keyboard — they probably don't want to manufacture the Butterfly* any more and/or don't want to further increase the burden of support cases + lawsuits, so they replaced that on all MacBooks ASAP) and then quietly discontinuing it.

I'm not looking forward to a time when the starting price of an MBP is $1799, but let's be honest, that has basically been true since October 2016.

*) though some iPad rubberized keyboards supposedly use that internally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Would a tricked-out (processor and RAM-wise...10th-generation i7 and 16GB RAM) MacBook Air at $1,449 hold its own against the two "straggler" Pros with the 8th-generation i5 and just the 8GB RAM they come with stock?).
For most consumer use cases, yes. It gets trickier to answer for stuff that taxes the CPU for many minutes — video encoding, say. But then video encoding probably enjoys having more RAM, so…?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
The kind of person who'd be okay with a "pro" notebook at 8GB RAM and 256GB would surely be served by an upgraded Air.
Yeah. It's not a great base config for a "Pro" at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Value wise, I would take the Air. The numbers are so close that the performance gap isn't large enough to justify the Pro no matter what.
Well, for short bursts, yeah. The wildcard is lengthier workloads.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-05-08, 05:43

MacRumors has a new hands-on article with the new 13” MacBook Pro.

They got the $1,299 model, so it’s an interesting read, echoing much of the above in this thread, the last two paragraphs. especially.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-05-08, 06:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
MacRumors has a new hands-on article with the new 13” MacBook Pro.

They got the $1,299 model, so it’s an interesting read, echoing much of the above in this thread, the last two paragraphs. especially.
Mostly, yeah, but their recommendation is a bit odd:

Quote:
Unless you're planning to shell out at least $1,799 for a new 13-inch ‌MacBook Pro‌, this refresh is somewhat disappointing because the more affordable, lower-end models don't get anything but a refreshed keyboard design. At a $1,799 starting price and up to $3,500 for the upgrades, some users might be better off checking out one of the 16-inch ‌MacBook Pro‌ models unless size is a concern.
Users are better off with the $2399 Pro because the $1799 is pricey?
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-05-08, 08:30

Yeah, I read that a few times. I think what they’re saying is “if you’re looking to spend $1,799 or so, and then do some upgrading that takes you into the $2,000’s, just go ahead and get the 16” model...larger screen, faster processor, better graphics, etc. unless portability is your main concern, in which case consider the Air..

To me, they’re recommending the stock/as-is $1,799-1,999 models (because once you start bumping up things via $300-500 worth of BTO, just treat yourself to the “better” base model 16” and enjoy the extra screen space and muscle). But if affordable portability is what you’re after, give an upgraded Air some thought.

Basically get the stock $1,799 model or a pimped-out Air...anything but the $1,299 Pro.
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chucker
 
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2020-05-08, 08:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Yeah, I read that a few times. I think what they’re saying is “if you’re looking to spend $1,799 or so, and then do some upgrading that takes you into the $2,000’s, just go ahead and get the 16” model...larger screen, faster processor, better graphics, etc. unless portability is your main concern, in which case consider the Air..

To me, they’re recommending the stock/as-is $1,799-1,999 models (because once you start bumping up things via $300-500 worth of BTO, just treat yourself to the “better” base model 16” and enjoy the extra screen space and muscle). But if affordable portability is what you’re after, give an upgraded Air some thought.

Basically get the stock $1,799 model or a pimped-out Air...anything but the $1,299 Pro.
Ah yes, that makes more sense.

Almost always, BTO options are a poor deal compared to stock models.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-05-08, 09:11

With their pricing on RAM and all, for sure. That’s why this new 13” Pro (the $1,799) is so appealing...all I really wanted was something with 16GB RAM, stock (no reason the 16” Pro should get that, but not a $1,799+ 13” model).

As I said in my first post in this thread, this is the first Mac I could just walk into a local retailer and buy stock, off the shelf, and not have to BTO anything.

That they doubled the RAM, storage, dropped in the latest processors, added the new keyboard, etc. and kept that &1,799 is really nice.

I’m not going to buy a Mac, 2020, with anything less than 16GB RAM. They made that part of things easy, for once.

I’ve not been able to find anything to dislike in the new Air, SE or 13” Pro ($1,799 model). That is SO NICE, and such a pleasant change. So that has me all kinds of excited for what a new iMac might be like.
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chucker
 
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2020-05-08, 10:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
With their pricing on RAM and all, for sure. That’s why this new 13” Pro (the $1,799) is so appealing...all I really wanted was something with 16GB RAM, stock (no reason the 16” Pro should get that, but not a $1,799+ 13” model).

As I said in my first post in this thread, this is the first Mac I could just walk into a local retailer and buy stock, off the shelf, and not have to BTO anything.
Yeah, that makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I’ve not been able to find anything to dislike in the new Air, SE or 13” Pro ($1,799 model). That is SO NICE, and such a pleasant change. So that has me all kinds of excited for what a new iMac might be like.
Well, to piss on your party just a tad: one thing I realized after a while is that the new SE wouldn't have any nice way to switch apps. It doesn't have pressing the left edge (like the 6s through 8 did), because it has no 3D Touch. And it doesn't have swiping from the bottom (like the X through 11 do), because it has a home button. I get why that is, and I don't think it's an upsell to get you to buy the 11 instead at all; I think they just genuinely couldn't figure out a good shortcut for it that makes sense. So you have to double-press the home button instead.

([I expand on this a little over at Michael Tsai's blog.](https://mjtsai.com/blog/2020/05/05/i...mment-3217779))
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-05-19, 12:36

I've been looking at the Geekbench scores comparing the new QC MacBook Air with the "new" QC MacBook Pro 1.4GHz. It seems that the scores lean heavily in favor of the Pro. So the Pro is faster, but in that $1300 range it also has half the storage capacity.

The decision is based on the following factors: $1299 gets you either a faster processor, a slightly brighter screen, and the Touch Bar, or it gets you a lighter computer with better battery life and double the storage. In my estimation, the Air wins, as the performance value is still in the 2.0GHz $1799 MB Pro which (over the base Pro) offers a much faster chip, double the RAM on a faster buss, 2x the storage at 3x the speed, and twice as many ports.

Either you need the performance (get the $1799 Pro) or you don't (get the QC $1299 Air).

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