[Hassan i Sabbah]

Can anyone recommend a decent network monitoring app?

My wireless is unprotected and someone's stealing it. I don't actually mind too much, but I'm curious to know who and how many.

Ta.

[chucker]

You'd probably have to monitor it from the base station, not from a particular client.

If it's an Apple AirPort base station, http://www.trulycertifiable.com/prod...ortmonitor.php might help. Apparently, AirPort supports SNMP as a general protocol for status information.

[Bryson]

Spotlight "Airport Client Monitor" - I'm pretty sure that will tell you the Mac address of whoever is connected. Whether that Mac address will tell you any more is debateable, of course.

[Brad]

MAC address, that is.

[Bryson]

I thought that was what I typed. Perhaps some kind of auto-correct got me?

EDIT: Nope, just some random auto-correct in my brain that kills ALLCAPS, it turns out.

[apple007]

Not to nitpick, but if you're blasting unprotected WiFi into someone else's space, I disagree with calling it "stealing." I don't see much difference between something like (unprotected) wireless internet and FM radio waves. If it's in someone's house, they're free to use it. (Now, if it's password-protected and they've hacked in, that's an entirely different story.)

(There were a couple great threads on this here about a year ago.)

[Hassan i Sabbah]

Hmm. You're right. By 'stealing' I mean... 'using'.

[Yontsey]

Originally Posted by Bryson Spotlight "Airport Client Monitor" - I'm pretty sure that will tell you the Mac address of whoever is connected. Whether that Mac address will tell you any more is debateable, of course.

searched for it and came up with nothing.....

[Fahrenheit]

Originally Posted by apple007 Not to nitpick, but if you're blasting unprotected WiFi into someone else's space, I disagree with calling it "stealing." I don't see much difference between something like (unprotected) wireless internet and FM radio waves. If it's in someone's house, they're free to use it. (Now, if it's password-protected and they've hacked in, that's an entirely different story.) (There were a couple great threads on this here about a year ago.)

No its illegal. To use a more logical analogy, its like leaving your car with the keys in the ignition outside someone's house. Its easy to use and may seem stupid not to take precautions, but its stealing.

There seems to be a lot of people on the Internet who have developed very skewed definitions of whats stealing - the kind of people who believe that downloading copyrighted music and movies is fair, "cos they are too expensive" or because "Im seeing if I like it before I buy it."

[Bryson]

Originally Posted by Yontsey searched for it and came up with nothing.....

Ah. You have to go to http://www.apple.com/support/airport/ and download the "Airport Management Tools". The link is on the right under "update your software".

[Bryson]

Originally Posted by Rob Dobbs No its illegal. To use a more logical analogy, its like leaving your car with the keys in the ignition outside someone's house. Its easy to use and may seem stupid not to take precautions, but its stealing.

I'd say a fairer analogy would be posting £10 notes through someones door and expecting that person not to use them. You are inserting this into other peoples homes, without protection. Although technically "stealing" I doubt any sane judge anywhere would actually uphold a prosecution for it.

[PKIDelirium]

Why don't you just, you know, protect the network?

[alcimedes]

I leave my network open, and if people want to use it they're free to do so, but I can understand why you'd want to know *who* is using it. Nothing wrong with being curious.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by alcimedes I leave my network open, and if people want to use it they're free to do so, but I can understand why you'd want to know *who* is using it. Nothing wrong with being curious.

How do you protect your files? I wouldn't mind leaving my network open, but I have way to many files on my systems/network that I don't want people being able to mess with.

[intlplby]

some people will leave the network open and then packet sniff and get valuable data, so it pays to be a bit safer on unencrypted networks

[alcimedes]

I don't have any file sharing enabled on any of my computers, and everything is firewalled up the wazoo.

[turtle]

So you much not transfer files within your network often then, if you do, how?

Packet Sniffing huh, sounds like something at a frat party.

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by alcimedes I don't have any file sharing enabled on any of my computers, and everything is firewalled up the wazoo.

So, what if someone decides to use your wifi for downloading warez, kiddie porn or having a chat with their buddies from Al-Qaeda?

The FBI will probably figure out it wasn't you, but perhaps they might also have bashed down your front door of it's hinges in the process.

No f***'er are getting free beer at my place! Unless they are my friends of course

[Bryson]

Originally Posted by Mugge So, what if someone decides to use your wifi for downloading warez, kiddie porn or having a chat with their buddies from Al-Qaeda?

Question: Has this ever actually happened to anyone?

[autodata]

Originally Posted by Rob Dobbs No its illegal.

Here in the US, the legality is murky. Personally, I have some minor ethical issues with accessing an open network, but I think it's unequivocally wrong to sniff out a key and gain access to an encrypted network.

To use a more logical analogy, its like leaving your car with the keys in the ignition outside someone's house.

That's not remotely a logical analogy.

There seems to be a lot of people on the Internet who have developed very skewed definitions of whats stealing - the kind of people who believe that downloading copyrighted music and movies is fair, "cos they are too expensive" or because "Im seeing if I like it before I buy it."

No, all you are observing is people insisting on accurately describing things by using accurate definitions.

Honestly, I'd probably say "stealing" when making a casual comment like Hassan did, but the fact of the matter is that it's an inaccurate colloquialism.

Originally Posted by apple007 Not to nitpick, but if you're blasting unprotected WiFi into someone else's space, I disagree with calling it "stealing." I don't see much difference between something like (unprotected) wireless internet and FM radio waves. If it's in someone's house, they're free to use it. (Now, if it's password-protected and they've hacked in, that's an entirely different story.)

If it was a situation where you were simply receiving and observing the signal, then I'd agree, but with an 802.11 connection you are interacting with someone else's network without permission. As a result, you aren't just a bystander benignly decoding the signals around you.

[Fahrenheit]

No, all you are observing is people insisting on accurately describing things by using accurate definitions. You are just wrong and that's all there is to it.

Care to elaborate?

[autodata]

Originally Posted by Rob Dobbs Care to elaborate?

Use a dictionary, ffs. When you are talking about copyrighted material it's *copyright infringement,* and it's not even criminal in most cases. I don't know or care about your laws in the UK, but you are just wrong when talking about US law or the actual meaning of "theft/larceny/stealing."

[torifile]

To me, it's like having parking space in an apartment complex and you're not using them all. Your neighbors need some parking space and you've done nothing to restrict their usage of the spots. I wouldn't mind unless they were assholes and took MY spot too or dinged my car or woke me up when they parked. I leave my network open (with my computers behind a firewall) just cause I know I appreciate finding an open network when I need access.

[Fahrenheit]

Originally Posted by torifile To me, it's like having parking space in an apartment complex and you're not using them all. Your neighbors need some parking space and you've done nothing to restrict their usage of the spots. I wouldn't mind unless they were assholes and took MY spot too or dinged my car or woke me up when they parked. I leave my network open (with my computers behind a firewall) just cause I know I appreciate finding an open network when I need access.

I see where you are coming from, and I guess it is ok for many people, but there must be cases where people have limited broadband connections (eg: 50gig a month download limits) where this is costing you, or, where they are using the connection to an extent that they are slowing it down for you.

Autodata: Each to his own, I guess that we will not agree over this one.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by turtle2472 How do you protect your files? I wouldn't mind leaving my network open, but I have way to many files on my systems/network that I don't want people being able to mess with.

You protect yourself by being smart. For example, having WPA enabled won't protect you against someone sniffing your password on a website that doesn't use SSL.

If you use file sharing, make sure every account has a password. Make sure you configure your password to be sent encrypted. OS X is naughty and allows full privilege file sharing even with accounts that have null passwords.

Personally, I tend to tunnel most file transfers between computers via SSH. It's faster for me anyway.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by Eugene You protect yourself by being smart. For example, having WPA enabled won't protect you against someone sniffing your password on a website that doesn't use SSL. If you use file sharing, make sure every account has a password. Make sure you configure your password to be sent encrypted. OS X is naughty and allows full privilege file sharing even with accounts that have null passwords. Personally, I tend to tunnel most file transfers between computers via SSH. It's faster for me anyway.

That's just great, I also have 5 PC's on my network with open file sharing. I only use WEP though and normally have MAC filtering on.

So how do you tunnel? And are you only going between Mac's?

[apple007]

Originally Posted by autodata If it was a situation where you were simply receiving and observing the signal, then I'd agree, but with an 802.11 connection you are interacting with someone else's network without permission. As a result, you aren't just a bystander benignly decoding the signals around you.

To me, if the network is unprotected (no password) and I can access it while sitting in my living room, then permission has been granted.

Again, this is mostly an academic discussion for me. I've never leeched off someone's network knowingly, but I have logged on a couple times by mistake, and the idea I could be criminally prosecuted for having done so -- as some people seem to advocate, and as a few localities actually tried to do last year -- seems like the height of absurdity.

(In my particular case, as discussed in prior threads, I live in a dense residential/commercial area with a multitude of free and private WiFi networks. I thought I was logging into the free public WiFi but had, in fact, logged into a neighbor's home network. I discovered this on my own and doubt the neighbor even knew it happened, but a few days later I read about a guy getting arrested under similar circumstances and it seemed ridiculous.)

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Eugene You protect yourself by being smart. For example, having WPA enabled won't protect you against someone sniffing your password on a website that doesn't use SSL. If you use file sharing, make sure every account has a password. Make sure you configure your password to be sent encrypted. OS X is naughty and allows full privilege file sharing even with accounts that have null passwords. Personally, I tend to tunnel most file transfers between computers via SSH. It's faster for me anyway.

I am just about to set up file sharing on my wirelessly connected computers. Tell me more on how to keep this secure!

[alcimedes]

Oh, and I should also mention to people like me at least, having any kind of security on your network means I want to get in.

Open networks I leave alone, since they're either too naive to close them or nice enough to leave them open.

If I see something like "Spiderman" or some crap with WEP or WPA you can bet your ass I'm turning on all packet capturing software and logging data for days if necessary just to break into that bitch.

Don't ask me why, I couldn't tell you, but it's a strange hobby.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by alcimedes Oh, and I should also mention to people like me at least, having any kind of security on your network means I want to get in. Open networks I leave alone, since they're either too naive to close them or nice enough to leave them open. If I see something like "Spiderman" or some crap with WEP or WPA you can bet your ass I'm turning on all packet capturing software and logging data for days if necessary just to break into that bitch. Don't ask me why, I couldn't tell you, but it's a strange hobby.

And how exactly can I set up my network to stop this?