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MC: The Rape of Lucrece


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MC: The Rape of Lucrece
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2014-06-20, 21:54

I was able to get on today for a bit again and thought about maybe putting a fancy redstone-powered thing together quick-like at 'topia. Nothing *too* fancy, just topping off the cacti, or maybe pushing them up from underneath.

So I went over to bobsky's place to ponder the mechanics of his melon farm, since I think that could apply.

Nope. The entire floor has been leveled.



Really guys? Also, the fuel level thing was extraordinarily cool, and the item sorting system of course, but I guess we'll never know how either of those worked now that the locusts have flown in and picked apart what was of any tiny value.

You people should be ashamed. I could see turning the few machines off and leaving them dormant, but no. Raze fucking everything and take the loot. :/

It's disappointing. Did anyone that pillaged really need that loot? No. Was it a good idea to raze levels instead of just easily turning them off? No. Was it fun destroying bobsky's place? Breaking intricate redstone builds like it was science and you were a Republican? Yes? Better they get destroyed before anyone learns from them!

I'm on mobile and I don't know the keys for the shaky-head disparaging guy, but if I did I'd put three of them here, because I'm that disgusted with y'all,

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2014-06-20 at 22:14.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2014-06-20, 22:12

Well that seems pretty crappy... I mean we're working in a practically limitless end-stage build at this point, why deface somebody else's stuff, even if they're no longer in-game.

I be ashamed of y'all



...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2014-06-20, 22:35

Right. I figured everyone was grown up enough to just leave a fallen comrades' belongings alone. There's juju and bad luck there.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2014-06-20, 23:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
So I went over to bobsky's place to ponder the mechanics of his melon farm, since I think that could apply.

Nope. The entire floor has been leveled.



Really guys? Also, the fuel level thing was extraordinarily cool, and the item sorting system of course, but I guess we'll never know how either of those worked now that the locusts have flown in and picked apart what was of any tiny value.
Extraordinarily cool or not, by discovering the extent of it all and dismantling it, Ken and I realized that Bruce's basement was directly responsible for much of the awful tanking of game performance that we were seeing around spawn. Only after most of it was gone it did I realize what an awful mistake it was to allow someone to build such a monstrosity near the center of our world. Though, if Bruce were here, I'm sure he'd tell me I'm wrong about my conclusion and mock me again for being naive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Raze fucking everything and take the loot. :/

It's disappointing. Did anyone that pillaged really need that loot? No. Was it a good idea to raze levels instead of just easily turning them off? No.
Look to the south-east side (I think) of one of the wide-open floors. Unless someone else has come and taken it all (unlikely given the sheer volume of stuff), Ken and I created a wall of chests to throw all the coal, redstone, melons, hoppers, furnaces, etc. I suspect it's all still there. We tried to leave Bruce's inventory rooms intact too. I think the one thing Ken took was a couple stacks of diamond blocks which were in turn distributed evenly into everyone's mailboxes within a day or so of when the post office was built.

If anyone wants to take what's left, though, I don't see the harm in that. Bruce isn't coming back, and his loot isn't doing any good just sitting in chests. Might as well spread it around like Ken did with the diamonds. Think of it as an estate inheritance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Was it fun destroying bobsky's place?
Not really, between the shitty framerate and the overshooting from all the coked-out beacons and the massive entity drops of coal any time a block broke. The only reason I didn't just "magic" wipe it all out was so that (surprise!) the materials could be salvaged and set aside instead of erased.

We were chatting while we were trying to work in that area, and we figured that all those beacons must have been put in place to try to counteract some of the performance issues caused by the machines. I ended up throttling back one of the nearby speed 2 beacons to just speed 1 afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Breaking intricate redstone builds like it was science and you were a Republican? Yes? Better they get destroyed before anyone learns from them!

I'm on mobile and I don't know the keys for the shaky-head disparaging guy, but if I did I'd put three of them here, because I'm that disgusted with y'all,
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
I be ashamed of y'all
Don't be too quick to judge without hearing the whole story. Bruce's basement was a blight on the area of the world around it. His house is still there; it's just the awfulness underneath it that's gone. Did we lose some potentially interesting redstone blueprints in the process? Maybe. Is the game is objectively better off with it gone? Definitely.

Other than for looking to borrow redstone ideas, nobody would have ever noticed that his basement machines were removed. They've been gone for a couple of weeks and nobody noticed until now.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2014-06-20, 23:58

Also, nobody has complained about my altering of Bruce's incomplete deathtrap contribution to the Trail of Towers. It was missing most of its eastern side and part of the northern side, the top was incomplete, and the floor was still, err, absent. I filled in those gaps and appeased the gods of symmetry a few weeks ago, too.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2014-06-21, 00:00

Man, it used to be so easy.

That said, fine. But where is the final bobsky thread? You can't just delete it like that. Too petty.

Last edited by 709 : 2014-06-21 at 00:19. Reason: Eh.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2014-06-21, 00:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Also, nobody has complained about my altering of Bruce's incomplete deathtrap contribution to the Trail of Towers. It was missing most of its eastern side and part of the northern side, the top was incomplete, and the floor was still, err, absent. I filled in those gaps and appeased the gods of symmetry a few weeks ago, too.
I did see that! In fact I made it a point to go over there in an hour window I had last week. I was going to ask you about the bottom, but, gone....

So it goes.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2014-06-21, 00:28

Also, and finally, you all are cursed. Whomever thought for whatever made-up reason it was a good idea to go in there and destroy shit, good luck You'll need it.

Didn't you ever see that Brady Bunch episode with the tarantula?? That's you. Right now.

So it goes.
  quote
_Ω_
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to _Ω_  
2014-06-21, 02:26

This Mine Craft business is "serious work"™
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2014-06-21, 08:15

It is! You should join.

Honestly, I'm just miffed about the missed opportunity to learn something about complicated redstone makings.

I doubt that anything really "needed" to be destroyed rather than just disabled. If anything is making downtown wonky, it's the overlapping beacons, not some machinery that just needed to be turned off.
  quote
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2014-06-21, 10:05

And now here I am, pulled into Grey's failed protest, doomed to the scrutiny of Bad Brad!

Thanks Grey, thanks a whole lot.


...
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2014-06-21, 14:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Didn't you ever see that Brady Bunch episode with the tarantula?? That's you. Right now.
I saw the one where Marsha Marsha Marsha got her nose all smashed in with a football! Does that count?? I do have a pretty fucked-up nose and thousands of dollars in surgical bills to prove it.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2014-06-21, 14:57

If it were me, I would have just magic'd it away. All of it. Especially if it was causing performance issues.

bobsky did not own the server, as much as he seemed to think he did. He didn't respect his responsibility to the community enough to remain a part of it, and I'd be 100% okay with not keeping his structures around as some sort of eternal monument, cool redstone tricks or no. If you want Brad and Turtle to spend their own time hosting your buildings, don't be a dick. Especially not to them.

After I came back to AppleNova (not coincidentally, the day someone on Twitter told me he was banned), I paged through the MC threads I missed, and holy hell. Even as someone who didn't have a high opinion of him before, it was shocking to me how arrogant and rude he had become. I couldn't believe what he was allowed to get away with, toward the end. I think he honestly thought he was ban-proof, that he could do and say whatever he wanted to anyone and would never be banned for it. Well, he thought wrong. I think Brad and Turtle deserve gold medals for patience. If it were me, I would have seen his attitude and nipped that in the bud long ago.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2014-06-21, 17:34

I nominate this thread for "Most Hyperbolic Thread Title of the Year".
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2014-06-21, 22:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Honestly, I'm just miffed about the missed opportunity to learn something about complicated redstone makings.
On a related note, I downloaded this redstone playground/tutorial map earlier today. It does a great job of demonstrating the basics of RS materials, logic gates, latches, transmission, clocks, memory, counters, and so on. Definitely check it out if you're looking for a learning experience.

GOKLAYEH'S REDSTONE LAB. [1.6.2 VERSION. AUGUST 1, 2013.]

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2014-06-22, 11:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
the fuel level thing was extraordinarily cool
I decided to take a stab at this offline in creative today. It wasn't too hard once I realized how redstone lamps get activated!



It's not nearly as compact as it probably could be, but it's a working prototype.

Here are the basics you need to know:

1. Putting a comparator next to a chest (or furnace, hopper, etc.) will output a signal strength relative to how full it is.
2. Putting a repeater next to a weak signal will boost it back to full.
3. You don't want to the feed redstone line straight into a lamp but into a block *next* to the lamp.

That's just about all you need to know. Then you just have to sort out vertical transmission and how to keep the lines from touching.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2014-06-22, 16:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
to ponder the mechanics of his melon farm
I decided to make this on my own too. Also surprisingly easy!



In this case, the important things to note are:

1. Melons conduct redstone current. So, the key is to align the repeaters to push current into and pull current out of the melons when they appear. This is what triggers the "slicer" above.
2. Hoppers will pull drops through one block above. So, a row of hoppers directly under the dirt where melons are grown and harvested will collect the vast majority of drops.
3. Don't forget that connected hoppers will automatically push their contents in the direction of the connection. No redstone required. Connect your row of hoppers to a chest to get all your goodies.
4. The water doesn't have to be as close as I put it in this example. It could be a few blocks back, perhaps fitting under a wall with slicers on the other side.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2014-06-22, 21:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
I nominate this thread for "Most Hyperbolic Thread Title of the Year".


Maybe. Leave it to the theatre guy to call me out. Perfect.
  quote
_Ω_
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to _Ω_  
2014-06-23, 01:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
It is! You should join.
On a PPC?
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2014-06-23, 14:06

I see the AppleNova server in this regard:

Turtle owns the game in it's hardware form and pays for the internet services. Although some have contributed financially, the burden is primarily his. If he says something needs to change, then something needs to change.

Brad spends a great deal of time managing the game's software (server) and puts a lot of effort into keeping us happy. That says a lot about Brad, especially considering the majority of public servers are pay-to-play and not all that great. If Brad says something needs to change, then something needs to change.

Grey is like Grandpa, the wise, clever and always present advisor and sharer of nifty stories and wisdom. If grey says something needs to change, then something needs to change.

That brings us to a bit of a conundrum. Turtle and Brad were clearly at odds with Bruce, while Grey seemed to get along with him just fine. So, when it comes to this game and the server we take for granted, clearly something is missing.

I was in-game with Brad and he mentioned the lag down in Bruce's basement. I commented that things always seemed pokey in and around spawn, so Brad decided to knock some things loose. As I like to do, I went down to help (I'm not going to put my part on Brad. I helped him break things down, but wouldn't have had the server's senior admin not felt it necessary). Truth be told, before that day even came around, I wandered Bruce's basement, rebuilt the portals Grey "shut down", lit the place with torches, and looked high and low for an "off" switch to shut the sorter/battery indicator/melon farm off. Alas, I could find nothing so I left it alone. I can say this in terms of "shutting it down": I could find no way to just turn it off. There did not appear to be any single piece (or pieces) of machinery that could be turned off/broken that would kill the entire works (This does not mean there wasn't one, just that it was not apparent—if it even existed).

Anyway, yes, I helped Brad break it down, and yes, I nabbed some redstone circuitry as I want to begin experimenting with the stuff so I can understand it better (said circuitry will be built out below Castle Whammerstein so as not to affect any populated areas). The other bits of the whole thing are in the chests Brad referenced. One can call this "selfish" or whatever, but those bits were just going to sit in chests until forever gobbled them up. Why not put them to use?

Also consider: The mob trap is a clear example of redstone's finickiness with any sort of teleporting not involving Nether portals. Grey, you and I discovered that even the flower farms are not immune to teleporting. The ultimate conclusion should be clear: Redstone sorting systems do not like teleporting, and yet here we are /backing in and out of spawn with regular delight. Bruce had the area littered with complex redstone creations that must certainly be just as affected as the mob trap and flower farms. Any sorting mechanisms are sure to get fouled up and add their finicky bits to our lag problems. I'm no redstone expert and really have no idea whether or not a redstone failure will contribute to lag, but I also wouldn't rule it out.

I'll be honest: If there had been an off switch, I would have thrown it soon after Bruce's departure. But there wasn't one. And while Brad and I were breaking stuff, the redstone continued to function and function and function. It would not just shut off! There was no obvious way to close it down!

Grey, sorry you're upset. I had a feeling you would be. Believe it or not, you're the last active member of the server I want to piss off. But, let's face it: Bruce crossed the wrong people (I had no problems with him in-game directly, so I have nothing bad to say about him in those regards) and he was shown the door. I don't like not having him around, but I understand why Turtle and Brad were done. While I'm not going to take part in breaking down his house or other structures out of spite (I had no spite for him) I will help take down a problematic structure at the request of one of those three people I mentioned up there. If any one of them believes something should change, there's likely a problem.

Back to that subject: Turtle believed there was a serious problem with Bruce's Nether Portal Pig Farm and did something about it. The end result was that Brad believed there was a problem with Bruce and did something about it. The final issue is that Grey believes there is a problem with breaking Bruce's redstone.

So, we have Owen's "mob trap" thing, Bruce's Portal thing, and now Bruce's redstone business. All "turned off" without discussion. Our own rules—that we agreed to—are being broken and we're all becoming a bit cavalier about it. I took part in Owen's mob thing and Bruce's redtone thing. Brad was there for the redstone thing. Grey helped with Owen's thing and Bruce's nether portal business (Turtle was there for that, too). Why are we all pointing fingers at each other when we're all doing it?

It isn't the action, but how we respond to the action. So, I propose we communicate on the boards before we break anything else, even if "we" are admin types. Grey, I truly suspect you would have been OK with shutting that business down had we all had an opportunity to discuss it and voice our concerns. I think it's the appearance of sneakiness/behind-the-back stuff that gets us flustered when, in reality, there's a whole lot of players who truly care about the overall "health" of the server and just want it to be better! Sometimes, that concern is acted upon immediately and maybe that action causes more problems than it solves.

In the end, I agree with Brad. However, I would have "thrown the switch" first to see if that was the problem. There wasn't a switch or even an easy couple of blocks to break. We had to break it completely to get it to stop working. I even commented in game that I could still hear much whirring and clicking as we were breaking, and that the redstone circuits seemingly continued to function and receive signals regardless of what we broke. And there's still more down there! We found the melon farm, the sorter, the chicken cooker, and the power meter. But above there is more (in the house) and below there is more (at the bottom). Bruce was busy!

I'm also trying to see this from Grey's standpoint. We should discuss more and react less. I do feel bad that we didn't communicate on the boards, first. In that event, though, I would have been firmly on the side of "take it down", just as I would like to see Spawn's numerous haste beacons turned the hell off! Anything that affects "normal" play within spawn should go away, and it became very clear that Bruce's basement was affecting "normal" play. However, it would have been better to bring that up on the boards and decide as a community.

In the end, there are only two things I'm really "sad" about: 1) That we didn't bring this to the boards, first; and 2) that Grey is angry. Sorry, dude. Really.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2014-06-23, 18:51

My thoughts on bb's spawn area isn't because it's him as much as moving on with this world. Personally I'm ok with and recommend the world that was his in town be regenerated (less the tree farm) since he's not going to need it. If you want his player/avatar to have a shrine then look to the north.

Town on the other hand seems like a place where urban renewal should be happening. If you think I'm jumping the gun then just pretend he was banned from the server a year ago and his building has squatters in it now.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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