[JK47]

I was wondering why it is that when a new, faster Pentium chip is released, it is only a month or so before it appears in many of the higher-end PC laptops (Alienware, Dell, etc...); while on the other hand, Apple seems to take forever to release chips in their laptops that are comparable to their desktop offerings? I understand that they seem to be having some heat issues with the G5 chip, however it seems that PC vendors aren't having similar problems introducing their fastest chips to laptops. (AMD has already released a 64-bit chip for PC laptops, and Alienware is releasing a 64-bit laptop incorporating this chip in September.) If it is simply a 64-bit issue, then why not release new, faster 32-bit chips for laptops frequently, as Pentium does? I just cant seem to figure out why Apple seems to be neglecting to provide updates for their mobile customers.....

[Zodiac]

Do you know how hot those chips are? Those laptops last only 1-2 hours! Plus there are a lot more companies for pc's than macs so naturally, pc's get more stuff in less time.

P.S macs still kick pc's ass regardless of how much they have.

[alcimedes]

most mac users would rather not have a 4" thick laptop with 3 hours of battery that weighs 8lbs.

there's not enough of a Mac market to go after the new users who truly want a desktop machine on their laps.

[Xaqtly]

The high end laptops like the Alienware are useless as laptops. If you run them on battery power they'll be dead within an hour. They're massive, heavy, bulky and need to be plugged in all the time. Apple isn't interested in making laptops that aren't really usable without being plugged in, and Apple doesn't like making behemoth laptops either.

Also, don't forget that Apple is not a chip manufacturer. They get their processors from IBM and Motorola, so if there's a delay in chip production there's nothing Apple can do about that.

[Quagmire]

It is not only heat it is also battery life. The G5 in a 12" powerbook prototype got 55 minutes of battery. So when the G5 pbook comes out most likely it will be a different type of battery(fuel cell?). Also apple wants to deliver the thinnest and lightest pbook as possible. PC makers make there notebooks at least 1.5"-2" thick. They also use huge fans. There notebooks are also alot heavier. So they have more room to work with then apple does. Sure apple could intro a huge notebook. But, mac heads would be mad. Don't be fooled by the clockspeed. My 1 Ghz G4 is very competitive. In xbench it scored a 99.93(w/o the slowing of the HD 113.33).

[JK47]

Originally Posted by zodiac Do you know how hot those chips are? Those laptops last only 1-2 hours! Plus there are a lot more companies for pc's than macs so naturally, pc's get more stuff in less time. P.S macs still kick pc's ass regardless of how much they have.

Actually, i wasnt aware of the battery life. Thats something I clearly overlooked when posting.

But, ya macs do kick PC's asses. Thats why im looking to convert to a Powerbook.

[Messiahtosh]

Are those truly 64-bit? Windows XP is not built for 64 bit computing, or is it?

[Luca]

Well, the mobile Athlon 64 chips and the mobile Pentium 4s are both extremely hot. They're fast, but the battery life suffers greatly and it requires a laptop so heavy and hot that you can't possibly keep it on your lap. However, the Pentium M actually is a very good chip. It's used by lightweight, thin PC notebooks and the computers that use the chip tend to get excellent battery life. Also, the Pentium M is extremely efficient - at 1.7 GHz, it's about as fast as a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4. While you could make a case for certain 1.7-2.0 GHz Pentium 4s being inferior to the G4 used in the PowerBooks, the Pentium M is clearly ahead of the G4. It also has more L2 cache, which greatly helps performance.

The reason Apple is a bit behind doesn't have a whole lot to do with Apple itself... it's mainly because Apple relies on the advancement of PowerPC chips. PowerPC is not as widespread as x86 (the type of chips that Windows computers use), so they aren't developed quite as quickly as x86 chips. Still, the companies behind PowerPC (Motorola and IBM) are both very big, so they can definitely afford to develop better PowerPC chips.

And they are. Motorola has plans to come out with newer G4 chips, and IBM is continuing with their development of the G3, which keeps getting faster and faster despite being an old chip. If they were to add AltiVec to one of those fast G3s, it would be just as good as a G4.

So, Apple would certainly love to come out with faster PowerBooks all the time. They're just going as quick as they can.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Are those truly 64-bit? Windows XP is not built for 64 bit computing, or is it?

No different from the Mac OS. Windows is a 32-bit OS, as is OS X. It's just that the CPUs (either the Athlon 64 or the G5) support operation in both 32-bit mode and 64-bit mode. Now, there might be a few programs that can support 64-bit memory addressing so you can use more than 4 GB in that program, but they are rare. I mean, how many programs really need more than 4 GB? Not many.

[nowayout11]

Originally Posted by Luca No different from the Mac OS. Windows is a 32-bit OS, as is OS X. It's just that the CPUs (either the Athlon 64 or the G5) support operation in both 32-bit mode and 64-bit mode. Now, there might be a few programs that can support 64-bit memory addressing so you can use more than 4 GB in that program, but they are rare. I mean, how many programs really need more than 4 GB? Not many.

In addition, native 64-bit support in the OS is going to be critical for the release of 64-bit apps. This will be true for both platforms.

The 64-bit extended Windows XP is in beta, and won't be released until 1H '05.

Maybe the title of this thread should have been " PC mobile destops vs. Apple Laptops"

'nuff said

[_Ω_]

I know someone who just got the top of the line Dell.

I laughed in his face and told him he was crazy!

[nowayout11]

Originally Posted by JK47 I was wondering why it is that when a new, faster Pentium chip is released, it is only a month or so before it appears in many of the higher-end PC laptops (Alienware, Dell, etc...); while on the other hand, Apple seems to take forever to release chips in their laptops that are comparable to their desktop offerings? I understand that they seem to be having some heat issues with the G5 chip, however it seems that PC vendors aren't having similar problems introducing their fastest chips to laptops. (AMD has already released a 64-bit chip for PC laptops, and Alienware is releasing a 64-bit laptop incorporating this chip in September.) If it is simply a 64-bit issue, then why not release new, faster 32-bit chips for laptops frequently, as Pentium does? I just cant seem to figure out why Apple seems to be neglecting to provide updates for their mobile customers.....

To answer the question more directly, without the exaggerated "4-inch thick" claims, PC companies are quick to market with these super-powered laptops because the chips inside are literally the desktop chips.

Intel does make a portable line of CPUs, and they do take longer to reach the market, however PC OEMs have often ignored Intel's portable line because those CPUs have often been more expensive than the desktop counterpart... as well as arriving much later than the desktop chip.

That's the beauty of a competitive market where one company's idealism doesn't suppress options. They all have systems that are super fast, at the expense of battery life. However, they DO make battery-conscious laptops as well. You have the ability to choose your preference.

[trailmaster308]

I have an Alienware Area 51m laptop. The silver model. 3.2Ghz 512mb ram 60 gig hd and nvidia 5200 go 128mb. The laptop is huge compared to my powerbook and the battery will last about 1.5 hrs TOPS if I am only doing telnet stuff on remote servers. When playing a game like UT '04 it will last only about 20 minutes. It is thick but its designed to be a mobile gaming desktop/laptop, not a super thin looker. It does what it's designed to do VERY well. Also, the video card can be removed and upgraded and I can say Doom 3 is hurting on it.

[BenRoethig]

compare the powerbooks are in the same class as the centrino notebooks. Like others have said, the higher end machines are really mobile desktops rather than true notebooks.

[Patchouly]

Thanks to Centrino technology, the latest PC notebooks using Pentium M are smaller, thinner and last very long on a single charge. The updated Pentium M (Dothan) now has a whopping 2MB L2 Cache and is more efficient than the Banias even though they are clocked higher.

The large, huge PC Notebooks mentioned in this thread usually have desktop processors in them and are sold as "portable desktops" with monster CPUs, GPUs and other desktop features. The PC portable market is too diverse and offers too many options to be summed up in generalizations and blanketed remarks found in this thread.

I personally have a PowerBook G4 (1.5GHz) and a Centrino VAIO (1.7GHz). The PowerBook konks out in 2 hours with normal use, the screen is very nice, but looks bla and dull and fuzzy compared to (and next to) Xbrite and the overall performance is so so.

The VAIO's screen is liquid, razor sharp, clear and bright with deep saturated colors - you want to lick it. The battery lasts well OVER 4 hours with REAL usage and normal to high screen brightness. The speed is noticeably faster than the PowerBook and now the Dothan hits up to 2GHz.

Right now, many PC portables have better displays, faster more efficient processors and WAY longer battery life than the current PowerBook. Even the designs are getting nicer, cleaner and sleeker than previous (PC) notebooks.

I truly hope that the next PowerBook revision will offer better screens with an OPTION for higher resolutions, better speed and most importantly, better battery life. Why bother having a portable sleek PowerBook if it konks out in literally 2 hours?

[bassplayinMacFiend]

My G4 is almost a year old and I probably get between 3-4 hours on a battery charge. Of course, I lower my CPU speed, turn down the screen brightness some and I'm either coding or surfing the 'net, 2 activities that don't exactly stress the system.

I know if I were to turn on Airport, crank the screen brightness and pop in a DVD I'd certainly be lucky to hit the 2 hour mark. Personally, I've never had an issue with the battery life. I used it to take notes in my Saturday morning class last semester (8-10:40) and it never ran out of battery on me, I always had a good chunk left over.

[JK47]

Thanks for the feedback guys.....
As far as the processors go, I guess I'm just fustrated that such a large and wealthy corporation as IBM can't seem to build more efficient chips at a faster pace. (ex the effieicnt, frequently updated Pentium M's mentioned above)
Since I own neither a PC nor an Apple laptop I have little experience with them, and am clueless as to what a typical bettery life is.

[Quagmire]

I can get 4 hours of battery life with the screen turned down, ae on, and have the cpu setting on highest with my pbook. Movies yea, it its just above 2 hours. Patch, I would have a talk to apple about the poor battery life.

[HHogan]

I got a Toshiba P20 (17" screen, 3.2 GHz h-t, 1.25 GB of ram, 80 gig HD with superdrive)

The thing flies and is very powerful, the battery life is about 2-3 hrs though. Its pretty thick, but combined with all the extras, I'm extremely happy with it.

[alcimedes]

The large, huge PC Notebooks mentioned in this thread usually have desktop processors in them and are sold as "portable desktops" with monster CPUs, GPUs and other desktop features. The PC portable market is too diverse and offers too many options to be summed up in generalizations and blanketed remarks found in this thread.

actually, the original poster was asking about exactly those.

I was wondering why it is that when a new, faster Pentium chip is released, it is only a month or so before it appears in many of the higher-end PC laptops (Alienware, Dell, etc...); while on the other hand, Apple seems to take forever to release chips in their laptops that are comparable to their desktop offerings?

the alienware laptops, as well as the new high end dell "gaming" laptops use desktop processors, not mobile processors. they are very large, and they have short battery lives. in the PC market, it takes months between when the desktop version of a CPU is released and when the similar mobile processor chip is released, just like with Apple.

[Crusader]

I love my 15" Powerbook. Recently, a friend of mine purchased a Dell Inspiron (Is it just me or is that a lame sounding name?) 9100. He spent a grand total of $1800, receiving such features as the 2.8 HT PIV processor, DVD Burner, wireless card, and an extra battery. I on the other hand had purchased an 1.5 Ghz GIV, blah blah, for $2400. I like my purchase, even thought I didn't add Applecare (That will bite me in the @ss).

Besides I get ~3 hours when I really try, he gets 65 Minutes. My laptop weights ~5-6 pounds. His tips the scales at 9-10. I think I can make it through several classes @ college with my laptop. I believe my friend will resort to a pad of paper.

It's all good

[Patchouly]

Originally Posted by Undertaker I can get 4 hours of battery life with the screen turned down, ae on, and have the cpu setting on highest with my pbook. Movies yea, it its just above 2 hours. Patch, I would have a talk to apple about the poor battery life.

There isn't anything wrong with the battery. I would get 4 hours too (on my PowerBook) if I was starring at a dim screen and reading a word document. But, I didn't buy the PowerBook to be limited (especially on the go). The point is, I can do any task with pretty much any brightness level and get at LEAST 3.5 hours on my Dothan Centrino. If I were to look at a dim screen and do minimal tasks, I'd get close to 6 hours.

I am not bashing Apple - I am expressing how frustrated I am at their current portable offerings. Speed aside, PowerBooks need better displays with slightly higher resolutions and MUCH better battery life. I would love it if Apple kicked Centrino in the ass! So, here's hoping for the next revision.

[Patchouly]

Originally Posted by Crusader I love my 15" Powerbook. Recently, a friend of mine purchased a Dell Inspiron (Is it just me or is that a lame sounding name?) 9100. He spent a grand total of $1800, receiving such features as the 2.8 HT PIV processor, DVD Burner, wireless card, and an extra battery. I on the other hand had purchased an 1.5 Ghz GIV, blah blah, for $2400. I like my purchase, even thought I didn't add Applecare (That will bite me in the @ss). Besides I get ~3 hours when I really try, he gets 65 Minutes. My laptop weights ~5-6 pounds. His tips the scales at 9-10. I think I can make it through several classes @ college with my laptop. I believe my friend will resort to a pad of paper. It's all good

He simply chose the wrong notebook. He bought a huge and powerful monster with a desktop processor. That model is sold as a portable desktop gaming machine - not something you'd buy to take notes with in class.

There are many options on the PC side, and he chose one that is big, heavy and bad on battery life. He could have easily opted for a thin and light PC Notebook with a gorgeous hi-res Xbrite type display, fast but efficient Pentium M chip, great graphics all with 4-5 (or more) hours of battery life.

Or, if we are just talking about taking notes, storing music and using wireless internet, he could have bought a 2 - 3lbs subnote with an outrageous wide screen and good battery life. Personally, that's would *I* would carry around campus, etc.

The options are endless - so we really can't pretend that the PC world only has Dell 9100's as portables.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Patchouly There isn't anything wrong with the battery. I would get 4 hours too (on my PowerBook) if I was starring at a dim screen and reading a word document. But, I didn't buy the PowerBook to be limited (especially on the go). The point is, I can do any task with pretty much any brightness level and get at LEAST 3.5 hours on my Dothan Centrino. If I were to look at a dim screen and do minimal tasks, I'd get close to 6 hours. I am not bashing Apple - I am expressing how frustrated I am at their current portable offerings. Speed aside, PowerBooks need better displays with slightly higher resolutions and MUCH better battery life. I would love it if Apple kicked Centrino in the ass! So, here's hoping for the next revision.

I can get 3 hours and 20 minutes or even higher with the screen on high. I use my pbook for ims, web, and email. So you are doing something wrong or there is something wrong with the battery.

[FallenFromTheTree]

Several of you have mentioned crisper or sharper screens on the p/c
laptops when compared to the PowerBooks.
Is this due to the actual screen resolution or is it because
Apple continues to offer such terribly inferior graphics support on many of their machines?

[nowayout11]

Originally Posted by FallenFromTheTree Several of you have mentioned crisper or sharper screens on the p/c laptops when compared to the PowerBooks. Is this due to the actual screen resolution or is it because Apple continues to offer such terribly inferior graphics support on many of their machines?

I can't speak for anybody else, but the display on the PC lappies I've used are better than my iBook G4 lappie. It's not the resolution as much as it is the limited viewing angle. The iBook display distorts color even if I am looking at it at a slight angle (sharing it to watch a DVD, for example). Even the corners are slightly distorted if I look straight at it. I don't know if the PB display is any better or not since I haven't seen the newer models in person yet.

The PC laptops distort too, but it seems like there is a greater view angle.

But with so many different PC laptops out there, anybody's mileage may vary.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by nowayout11 I can't speak for anybody else, but the display on the PC lappies I've used are better than my iBook G4 lappie. It's not the resolution as much as it is the limited viewing angle. The iBook display distorts color even if I am looking at it at a slight angle (sharing it to watch a DVD, for example). Even the corners are slightly distorted if I look straight at it. I don't know if the PB display is any better or not since I haven't seen the newer models in person yet. The PC laptops distort too, but it seems like there is a greater view angle. But with so many different PC laptops out there, anybody's mileage may vary.

I must say I am quite suprised by what you are saying.
I agree Apples are typically lower resolution over the same screen real estate but both my old 14" iBook and my current 17" G4 offer probably the best variations in viewing angle I have ever seen....

Couple that with the quality of the sound coming out of the 17" when watching movies, doing music etc. and you would think you had a mini stereo system..

Just my opinion though,
scratt.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by FallenFromTheTree Is this due to the actual screen resolution or is it because Apple continues to offer such terribly inferior graphics support on many of their machines?

Neither. When there are problems, they are from the LCD screens themselves and the LCD manufacturer (LG Electronics, as I recall). Neither the graphics chip nor the native resolution directly affect things like viewing angle.

[Wrao]

Ya know, a friend of mine got a laptop recently, it's almost identical to my powerbook in features, except it has a 1.5 ghz chip, but it gets great battery life, it weighs only slightly more than my book, and is only slightly bigger. It's definitely a very nice laptop. While, apple still makes great notebooks, PC notebooks ARE getting better, and there are still many more options out there for PCs.

but whatever, I still can't stand using windows