[Brave Ulysses]

The personal computer world just seems completely stagnant and void of any innovation whatsoever. Since this is Applenova, look at it just from Apple's products.... their Macs have been less than inspired for years now. It is no coincidence that this correlates to the iPhone's release.

What new ideas have we seen Apple bring to the PC market in the last 3-4 years? What new killer app? What new app at all? Even the apps Apple is still developing for the desktop have seen minor updates in the last few cycles. And while Snow Leopard definitely refined OS X and was a needed maintenance update, it certainly didn't bring much new to the table as far as the end user and changing the way we use our computers.

Are smartphones really the future. The iPhone seems to be all Apple cares about and all the press cares about. The increase in Mac sales are an extremely convenient side effect of Apple's rising prominence. They have priced/speced some of their computers more competitively but in many ways Apple has just been providing more of the same and playing it safe. No new computer models, no new designs, no new UI, no new apps.

The most frustrating part of it, is that it now feels outdated to do many things on a personal computer, and smartphones can do other things better. The iPhone is actually superior to Mac OS X in many ways as far as ease and quickness to access of what we need on a daily basis as far as weather, directions, news, email, etc. Why doesn't my computer know where it is? Why doesn't my MacBook Pro have GPS? Why isn't there an app store for Mac OS X with a wealth of development and great programs and ideas?

iPhone and smartphones are certainly exciting but it seems to me that we truly are wasting a lot of great/advanced hardware for our personal computers as the focus has shifted and the idea well has run dry.

[Eugene]

If you have a narrow view on what a personal computer is (a PC), then yes it might seem like there's hardly anything new happening. This of course ignores things like designing APUs (GPU/CPU hybrids), new peripheral technologies like Light Peak, new wireless technologies, etc. We are still keeping up with Moore's Law for example.

In the end, the personal computer is an appliance that gives you access to apps (many of which now exist on a public network)...and there's no dearth of innovation there.

[Miko]

Well all really great points. I think what has happened to the Personal Computer as we know it is a form factor and paradigm that is extremely efficient at the moment. Great innovation on the desktop or notebook would be rather difficult however IMO Apple is leading the way in the use of "Green" materials like aluminum and technologies like LED, Multi-Touch and Light Peak if it comes to market.

Apple's product designs are still among the best in the industry, but you're right it seems that they are focusing a lot more on mobile products. On the computer side of the coin I think they are focusing more on the software and system architecture so that you really get the best out of the hardware a good example would of course be Snow Leopard. Visually not much has changed, but under the hood everything has been streamlined to take advantage of the 64bit multi-core chips, RAM and GPUs more so than any other OS I know about.

I think what we are heading towards is a convergence of the Desktop/notebook and the iPhone/tablet? clearly for most task the average user has more than enough power, so the next step would be to have all your data at the touch of a finger which we are already seeing in many ways.

So I guess that Innovation can't always be measured by how cool a case is or how neat a certain type of software is, but rather what can be done to improve the productivity and experience while contributing to a better quality of living. That is a tough balancing act no matter who you are.

[jdcfsu]

I have no statistics to back this up, but wouldn't it come down to economics? My assumption is that smart phone development and production (both in hardware and software/apps) is a lot cheeper and produces a much higher profit margin than computers of any kind (notebook, netbook, or desktop). Given this is the case, it makes sense for the industry to move in this direction -- at least for the time being because that is what makes them money.

That said, I agree with Eugine that there is massive innovation happening, but a good bit of it is behind the scenes/under the hood or in a Internet/shared context. To really appriciate the innovation the industry is experiencing we have to look a little harder and change our precepts, but it's still there.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Eugene If you have a narrow view on what a personal computer is (a PC), then yes it might seem like there's hardly anything new happening. This of course ignores things like designing APUs (GPU/CPU hybrids), new peripheral technologies like Light Peak, new wireless technologies, etc. We are still keeping up with Moore's Law for example. In the end, the personal computer is an appliance that gives you access to apps (many of which now exist on an public network)...and there's no dearth of innovation there.

No doubt hardware has advanced and continues... but that hardware is not being tapped like it once was. Software is not keeping up in my opinion. The two use to leap frog each other. What exactly are those new hardware technologies going to bring us?

The frightening thing is that Apple is starting to be a poor desktop software company. Their desktop software is pretty stale these days. I'm not even sure why they maintain their pro apps.... even Final Cut Pro seems like an after thought for them these days. It's like Apple is burdened by their late 90s/early 2000s product strategy when it comes to the desktop computer.

[Robo]

Several commentators have characterized the era we're entering as the "post-PC" era, and I happen to agree with that line of thinking. People won't stop buying computers, of course -- it's just that everything will become a computer. Let's take Twitter, the so-called SMS of the internet, as an easy (and important) example. You can access your tweets on a PC, true - but also on your smartphone (or even regular phone), your Xbox or PS3, devices like the TwitterPeek, or even your TV (if it's a widget-toting "connected TV," like many new TVs are). YouTube is another "killer app" that's available on almost everything, as is Facebook integration.

This doesn't mean that innovation is dead on the PC side of things -- it just means that PCs are evolving. More people than ever before are buying notebooks and netbooks, which stretch the traditional definition of "PC." I think, eventually, the smartphone is going to pick up the slack as the primary computing platform -- the ultra-personal computer, if you will -- but people are still going to be buying notebooks for the foreseeable future, and even desktops. It's just that those desktops are going to be changing -- we'll use them less as "the computer" (a phrase I still think will sound silly to future generations) and more as storage vaults for the files and media we access on all of our other devices. This is sort of how Jobs has pictured things for a while, with the "digital hub," although ironically Apple lacks an ideal "vault" computer (which would probably have multiple full-size drive bays and no built-in screen...okay, there's the Mac Pro, but...).

Of course, it's entirely possible that people will decide to just store all their stuff online, but I think that might be a bit of a leap...at least for now.

In short: Smartphones will become our primary computing platforms (look at Atom-packing nettops like the Aspire Revo. With gigahertz processors, how long until smartphones can perform the same duties? All they'd need is a keybord port and video-out), with desktops filling in the void (doing things that smartphones wouldn't excel at, such as having large amounts of cheap storage, backups, and distributing data to multiple devices, set-top boxes, &c.). Maybe.

I just want a phone with a big touchscreen and a fast processor, powerful enough to power a larger screen, with video-out, a USB port, and a rudementary big-screen UI. You could plug in a keyboard and monitor when you were at your desk, or you could slip it into a smallish laptop, where it would pull double-duty as the trackpad. The laptop would have no processor or storage guts, just a big screen and a keyboard and maybe some batteries or beefier wireless antennae. How cool would that be?

[Miko]

Originally Posted by Roboman This is sort of how Jobs has pictured things for a while, with the "digital hub," although ironically Apple lacks an ideal "vault" computer (which would probably have multiple full-size drive bays and no built-in screen...okay, there's the Mac Pro, but...).

Don't forget the Mac Mini server that would easily meet the "Digital Hub" requirement and can be put pretty much anywhere, but Yea I agree with you and the use of the term "computer" is kinda blurred these days when you think about it.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Miko Don't forget the Mac Mini server that would easily meet the "Digital Hub" requirement and can be put pretty much anywhere, but Yea I agree with you and the use of the term "computer" is kinda blurred these days when you think about it.

The Mac mini Server is probably the closest thing Apple offers, but...it really isn't: OS X Server seems like overkill for home use (it's designed for businesses, no?), the price is (correspondingly) high, and two 2.5" drive bays isn't exactly a lot. I'm thinking something more like this, only aluminum, exactly cubic (of course), and about twice the price (if it's from Apple).

My dream product right now is one of those, in a 20cm aluminum cube, with a DisplayPort (or HDMI), and maybe one more hard drive bay, running Linux for under $500. And with fewer blue LEDs...

[julesstoop]

Actually, a lot of innovation is happening. Innovation which makes it ever easier to develop software, innovation blurring the line between platforms. And finally - after years of adding bloat - the whole industry seems to be pointing toward more efficiency and more user friendliness.

[joveblue]

I agree that there's heaps of innovation happening. The shift to the web as a development platform is a very key one that I don't think has been mentioned here yet...

[Moogs]

We're sort of riding on the momentum from what was the golden wave of computer innovation over the last 10 years. It also depends on how you define innovation but aside from the reliability factor of all computers still needing work, I think we've sort of gotten spoiled with things like the iPhone, super-realistic CG being possible on desktop-class workstations, etc.

To me innovation is finding new and better ways to work with computers and software. I think we mostly see a lot of evolutionary changes in software and hardware, and very little revolutionary (truly innovative) changes. You could argue things like Expose are innovative because it was a brand new way to let us quickly access documents and applications while being pretty much totally transparent and out-of-the-way. As far as hardware, so long as we're bound to big hard disks and PCI slots and things like that to some degree we're forced into evolution rather than revolution.

Maybe in a few years we'll have some radical changes to storage mediums and communication (like LightPeak), which will in turn allow for a new generation of software but I'm pretty happy with the state of OS X right now. Far from perfect but it gets out of my way and lets me work for the most part. This time next year, we'll be talking about some pretty cool innovations from third parties I have a feeling.

[PB PM]

I guess the question to ask is, what needs to be innovated? Other than continuing to reduce the size of components and more importantly energy usage of computers, I do not see a lot of need for things to change.

I think the next big change will come in how we intact with our data. I don't mean changes in storage, or cloud computing (bad idea IMO) but in how we access it. I would like to see improvements in data compression, transmission speed, and encryption.

On the Apple front, I can think of a few things that the could do, but it is unlikely that they would do so.

[Moogs]

Yah I think storage medium is the next big innovation area. Maybe some type of crystaline technology, which I read about a few years ago. Something that does not require flash memory or a spinning magnetic platter, and which perhaps can interface with a fiber-optic setup. Basically it would be a quantum leap in capacity and speed, switching the bottleneck back to the board CPU and RAM, though I suppose it's possible RAM could also benefit. We're talking orders of magnitude better, not the usual 10% speed increase here, 20% capacity increase there. No idea if it was pursued / is being pursued but it's one thing to possibly look forward to.

[PB PM]

Another possibility, would be to find a way to store data in a way that you do not need power to use. Think of how much power we could save with an organic solution to data storage?

[billybobsky]

the complaint seems that software isn't keeping up with the hardware. this had to be true at some point. there is no equivalent to moore's law for software. should it really be doubling its computational needs every eighteen months? it takes longer than eighteen months to launch most new versions of software anyway and if each time it required twice the specs as the last time, the market for your software would effectively be nil.

humans also have limited needs from computers. they have gone from work horses calculating the trajectories of tank shells to entertainment devices. there is little actual productive work that needs massive computation. though examples abound of computational problems that cannot be solved in a reasonable amount of time, most users of computers don't need to calculate the atomistic folding pathway of a small 100 residue protein in a box of discreet solvent and buffer. timmy simply doesn't need to do that...

[Brave Ulysses]

http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/10/04....losing.clout/

Pretty sad but it seems like my fears were warranted. Despite increased sales, Apple seems to be neglecting the Mac platform more and more.

[Brad]

While we're ringing the death knell for the Mac, don't forget that Apple has also notably recently neglected and removed links to its third-party software downloads page.

[ezkcdude]

That does seem like a slap in the face to OS X developers. Kind of sad.

[cosus]

Originally Posted by Brad While we're ringing the death knell for the Mac, don't forget that Apple has also notably recently neglected and removed links to its third-party software downloads page.

I think Apple likes what it has seen with the app store on the iPhone and iPad. Maybe they'll make a desktop app store, take in more income for themselves while making software search easier and prettier.

[Banana]

For some reasons that deeply disturb me. I understand the rationale for App Store on a iPhone and iPad, but for Mac OS X, too? Ehhh.... Perhaps as one of alternative for locating & buying Mac OS X software, but to exclusively control what software can be run on Mac OS X? I dunno if that is really a good idea...

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Banana For some reasons that deeply disturb me. I understand the rationale for App Store on a iPhone and iPad, but for Mac OS X, too? Ehhh.... Perhaps as one of alternative for locating & buying Mac OS X software, but to exclusively control what software can be run on Mac OS X? I dunno if that is really a good idea...

I assume it would be an option, but I agree anyway. Even if it was completely optional, I'd have concerns about it pushing out regular apps or forcing non-App Store apps into obscurity.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Luca I assume it would be an option, but I agree anyway. Even if it was completely optional, I'd have concerns about it pushing out regular apps or forcing non-App Store apps into obscurity.

What would it really hurt though? The Mac development front has been stagnant and boring for several years now.

What's the last creative killer app that game out for the Mac from an indie developer?

An App store would help greatly but Apple just recently said they have no plans for one.

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by cosus I think Apple likes what it has seen with the app store on the iPhone and iPad. Maybe they'll make a desktop app store, take in more income for themselves while making software search easier and prettier.

And bring censorship to OS X? Then I'd rather take my chances with Windows! This "approval" thing is already my biggest grief about the iPhone/iPad.

OS X is the words best operating system for personal computers and this would indeed be a crazy time to fuck up all that which has been achieved in the last decade. No, I simply don't believe it. All this focus on the iPhone and iPad is just an effort to get this new platform off to a flying start. Snow Leopard can easily hold it's own against the competition for a couple of years.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Mugge Snow Leopard can easily hold it's own against the competition for a couple of years.

Unfortunately it looks like it may have to

[Xaqtly]

As long as a theoretical app store for Macs were optional, I'd be fine with it. But I'll always want the option to buy whatever software I want from wherever I choose. I might even buy it from the Mac app store.

Or like Peter Griffin said: "Why take the boat when you could have the box? There could be anything in that box. Maybe even a boat!"

[Mugge]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses Unfortunately it looks like it may have to

Well, let's hope Windows 8 will be a bust then...

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly As long as a theoretical app store for Macs were optional, I'd be fine with it. But I'll always want the option to buy whatever software I want from wherever I choose. I might even buy it from the Mac app store. Or like Peter Griffin said: "Why take the boat when you could have the box? There could be anything in that box. Maybe even a boat!"

Sort of like Steam, except for apps? I could see that being nice. Won't happen, at least not for a long time (imagine negotiating with all those different software publishers!), but it's an interesting thought.

Again, my concern is that even if a theoretical Mac App Store is optional, it'll become so popular that it will essentially be required for a piece of software to become successful, which in turn would put that software at the mercy of Apple's whimsical approval process.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses What would it really hurt though? The Mac development front has been stagnant and boring for several years now. What's the last creative killer app that game out for the Mac from an indie developer? An App store would help greatly but Apple just recently said they have no plans for one.

You've hit the proverbial nail on the head. The Killer App is mobile devices that can leverage location via
GPS/Wifi. Hence, Apple is sprinting in this direction along with the rest of the industry.

The Mac isn't going anywhere but I expect that the prime innovation is going to come in the mobile sector as
witnessed by the acquisition of PA Semi, Intrinsity and now Siri (amazing technology).

[Banana]

Originally Posted by Luca I assume it would be an option, but I agree anyway. Even if it was completely optional, I'd have concerns about it pushing out regular apps or forcing non-App Store apps into obscurity.

I recall we had a recent-ish thread talking about how App Store could be the answer to FTFF - abstract away the filesystem and store documents with tags so it's easier for people who, for whatever reasons, don't care to know the finer point of computer literacy to use it like a tool or appliance. I can see how this would help bring closer to that ideal - to borrow a cliche from Linux world, "so easy that even your grandma can do it!"

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses What would it really hurt though? The Mac development front has been stagnant and boring for several years now.

I wonder. I also remember few years ago, the argument was being passed around that the smaller number of Mac OS X software is actually a good thing because the quality tends to be higher = less time spent dealing with crapware that doesn't work. Whether that translate into "stagnant development", I'm not sure, though.

An App store would help greatly but Apple just recently said they have no plans for one.

Okay, that's reassuring... I suppose I should have had asked this in first place but wonder if there's a link for that?

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Banana Okay, that's reassuring... I suppose I should have had asked this in first place but wonder if there's a link for that?

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...store_for_mac/