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Alexander the Great
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Windswept
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Join Date: May 2004
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2004-11-06, 19:22

I guess this Oliver Stone movie is opening on Nov. 24. I can hardly wait.

I know you'll think I'm sick and twisted, but I've had a huge crush on Alexander for years now.

I *love* history, and when I read about some of these amazing people from the past, I fall in love with their strength, their courage, the forcefulness of their presence in the time frame in which they lived.

It has been a while since I did any reading about Alexander, so my memory has filtered out negative aspects and left mostly the salient points about him that I found most intriguing.

~ He was described as stunningly beautiful, with a golden mane of hair, and eyes through which quietly shone his superior intelligence and intellectual curiosity, even as a youth.

~ As a boy (aged nine or ten?), one time when important individuals from foreign parts were waiting to see his father (the king), he went into the room and spent hours questioning them about their lands and the structure of their armies.

~ To become a warrior (and a 'man') in Macedonia, a young soldier had to kill an enemy in battle. When Alexander was 12, he went out on his own, located, ambushed and killed an enemy combatant.

~ Apparently, while growing up as a young prince, he was not given warm clothes in winter, nor really sufficient food -- in order to harden him for his future as a warrior. This deprivation actually seems to have stunted his growth (if that's really possible).

~ By age 20, he was a general leading a vast army bent on conquest. When the army was encamped, Alexander would train by running alongside his horse at a gallop, leaping on and off the saddle.

~ After battle, he would visit his wounded soldiers and spend a great deal of time talking with them in the medical tents. Can you imagine the effect this would have on the soldiers of any army? His visits weren't perfunctory, but were conducted with heartfelt emotion and caring. It's not surprising that these soldiers would follow their young leader to the ends of the earth.

~ I read that Alexander would be the 'first over the wall' in his enthusiasm to join battle. I don't know how long he might have continued this practice of putting himself in the forefront of danger, especially once he was the supreme commander of the army. I know it would seem foolish to most combat leaders. But still..... *sigh* (Heh)

~ When he captured Darius' wife and mother, he treated them with the greatest courtesy and respect - probably not the most common mode of behavior for those times.

~ I think I remember that in many instances Alexander preferred to get the populace and defeated enemy to swear allegiance to him, rather than conduct wholesale slaughter, as was customary in those days. He chose to leave ruling leaders in place, if at all possible; encouraged his soldiers to marry into the populace and form ties; wanted to have a universal coinage across the lands of his conquests, to enhance the prospects for trade. My impression is that his first impulse was to be a benign conqueror, if he could; which to me is an incredibly forward-thinking, modern concept for those times, in which often whole populations were slaughtered after battle, cities burned, crops destroyed, wells poisoned. That he could be so young, yet have such divergent beliefs and practices from other military leaders of his era astounds me.

I know that he eventually became megalomaniacal, paranoid, ruthless, etc. But I read somewhere recently (can't remember where ) that he may have been suffering from all kinds of things for which we now have medications, like clinical depression or manic-depressive disorder, blood-poisoning from wounds that hadn't healed, and so forth. I think the way he started out, those first few years in his early 20's, is more indicative of the real personality of Alexander, a man who stands out as one of the true greats in world history.

Some of you may have read much more than I, and may have done so much more recently. So, if you can refute what I have said, I won't be surprised or offended. I am SO enormously curious to see how Oliver Stone has chosen to portray the character of Alexander. Like I said, I can hardly wait for this movie to come out.

Any of you have thoughts/opinions/impressions about Alexander from your past historical readings?

Thanks for any replies.

Carol

Last edited by Windswept : 2004-11-08 at 13:31.
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LoCash
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2004-11-06, 19:45

I didn't read that whole post, but I think you left out the part where Alexander was banging other guys in the ass
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Windswept
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2004-11-06, 19:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCash
I didn't read that whole post, but I think you left out the part where Alexander was banging other guys in the ass
Yeah, I left that part out, LoCash.

Wonder if Oliver Stone will leave it out too?

Guess we'll have to wait for the director's cut DVD to know for sure.
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Fangorn
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Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2004-11-06, 22:42

Hi Carol,

I love reading History too, and in my profession (copy editing college texts, among other things), I get to indulge AND get paid. The book I am currently reading is _The Making of Britain to 1399._ Absolutely fascinating! History hs so many great stories.
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usurp
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2004-11-07, 02:14

i read somewhere the movie got delayed because they were re-editing it to make alexander look less gay.
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Powerdoc
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2004-11-07, 03:20

Alexander the great died at the mythical age of 33.

As a general, he created a revolution in the way to make war. He created the first army services corps (stewardship).
During a campaign he was studying the best way to invade a countrie, he took into account the stewardship.


Now he was not a saint. While drunk, he killed one of his best friend.
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LudwigVan
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2004-11-07, 12:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerdoc
As a general, he created a revolution in the way to make war. He created the first army services corps (stewardship).
During a campaign he was studying the best way to invade a countrie, he took into account the stewardship.
Reaching back to my ancient Greek history class lo these many years ago now, I recall that Alexander took a page from his father's (Philip of Macedon's) war book and revolutionized it further. Instead of the old phalanx approach to battle - two lines of troops butting into each other - Alexander split his infantry up, having several groups of soldiers come at the enemy from different angles/directions.

The Stone film has me interested in reading Arrian's account of Alexander's life. My brother read the book some years ago, but I never got around to it. Perhaps it's time to borrow his copy...
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alcimedes
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2004-11-07, 12:22

sounds like he had a problem with syphilus at the end.
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Powerdoc
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2004-11-07, 15:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcimedes
sounds like he had a problem with syphilus at the end.
It seems he had some mighty genitals problems
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ast3r3x
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2004-11-07, 15:48

http://www.historychannel.com/alexander/

It's on tonight at 8 I think on the history channel. Incase some of you need to brush up on your history of him

Of coruse I'll only be able to watch the first half hour as at 830 Arrested Developement.
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_Ω_
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2004-11-07, 16:21

Both your links point to the same site.....

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Windswept
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2004-11-07, 16:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by ast3r3x
http://www.historychannel.com/alexander/

It's on tonight at 8 I think on the history channel. Incase some of you need to brush up on your history of him

Of coruse I'll only be able to watch the first half hour as at 830 Arrested Developement.
Yeah, I saw the history channel thing advertised yesterday. The ad showed many actual locations where Alexander had been. I find myself being astounded that he was, in fact, a 'real' person who walked the earth - the same earth that's there today. It just seems inconceivable. I guess because he's such a figure of myth and legend to me - doesn't seem possible that he was a real human being. But, omg, he 'was'!!! That's what's just so incredible.

The ad featured Dan Marino (and a certain hockey mega-star) saying he wished he could have met Alexander. I honestly wonder just how many people over the last two thousand years have felt the exact same way. I would love to have met Alexander -- and Rommel. Guess I have a thing for generals. Heh.

If only he'd had available today's medications and had been able to stay mentally and physically healthy. No telling how a long-term, benevolent reign might have *significantly* altered history, even down to our world today.

I mean, just think....Aristotle was his middle school teacher !!!!! Is that incredible, or *what*???!!!
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BuonRotto
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2004-11-07, 18:08

FYI, Smithsonian magazine has a pretty good overview of the real Alex's life this month, for those who want a little better intro. It's vaguely tied into the movie with a few blurbs from Stone and some images from the film, but most of it is more, um, educational.
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Windswept
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2004-11-07, 22:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuonRotto
FYI, Smithsonian magazine has a pretty good overview of the real Alex's life this month, for those who want a little better intro. It's vaguely tied into the movie with a few blurbs from Stone and some images from the film, but most of it is more, um, educational.
Thanks, Buon. I'll see if I can remember to dash out to Border's tomorrow to pick up Smithsonian. I'd also like to buy a few Sunday papers from overseas, to see what they might still be saying about our elections.

Hey, well, Alexander on the history channel is starting for me right now, so gotta run downstairs.
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Kickaha
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2004-11-08, 13:03

Damn, got home last night just in time to see that was ending.

I have Theodore Ayult Dodge's two volume biography of Alexander upstairs in the study... I suppose I really should read that one of these years.
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usurp
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2004-11-08, 14:37

cool, just checked my tivo and they are showing Alexander the Great on discovery.

isnt this just the coolest, i am all the way in kuwait and i can tivo the same documentary you guys watched.

portable: MacBook 2.4Ghz, 2GB RAM, 250GB HD | personal: PowerMac G5 dual 2.3ghz, 6GB RAM, 6TB HD | work: MacBook Pro 2.5ghz, 2GB RAM, 160GB HD | car: Alpine iDA-W407 with black iPod 80GB | pocket: iPhone 3GS with Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro's
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EDS66
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2004-11-08, 15:22

Interesting observation about the pikes that the Phalanx soldiers carried (they were called Sarissas, I believe).

Each pike was up to 18 feet long and had a counterweight. This absolutely dwarfed the Hoplite phalanx spear, which was only 8 feet long and the Theban pike, which was 12 feet long.

But on top of being an incredible weapon the Phalanx pike did more: it a) deflected enemy javelins and arrows (Phalanx soldiers held it at 75 degree angle), and b) it hid just about everything behind the Phalanx (most usually the Companion Cavalry units).

A pretty amazing weapon overall. But just like the Hoplite Phalanx fell to the Macedonian Phalanx, so did the Macedonian Phalanx fall to the Roman Legion and its basic unit, the cohort.
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EDS66
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2004-11-08, 15:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoCash
I didn't read that whole post, but I think you left out the part where Alexander was banging other guys in the ass
I think Pederasty was more like the norm rather than an aberration back then.
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EDS66
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Location: Arlington, VA
 
2004-11-08, 15:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol
I guess this Oliver Stone movie is opening on Nov. 24. I can hardly wait.

.....
I know that he eventually became megalomaniacal, paranoid, ruthless, etc. But I read somewhere recently (can't remember where ) that he may have been suffering from all kinds of things for which we now have medications, like clinical depression or manic-depressive disorder, blood-poisoning from wounds that hadn't healed, and so forth. I think the way he started out, those first few years in his early 20's, is more indicative of the real personality of Alexander, a man who stands out as one of the true greats in world history.

Carol
Alexander was supposed to have been wounded by just about every weapon around: spear, javelin, arrow, and sword. He must have accumulated some serious scar tissue before he died.
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Kickaha
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2004-11-08, 15:31

Ayup. The entire Spartan army was encouraged to form bonds in the field between soldiers. People are much more likely to fight for someone they love, then someone they work with.
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EDS66
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2004-11-08, 15:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
Ayup. The entire Spartan army was encouraged to form bonds in the field between soldiers. People are much more likely to fight for someone they love, then someone they work with.
True that, but women were still used in Sparta as war trophies for the soldiers. So Spartan hoplites were not truly homosexual.

I think the most classic example of true homosexuality and warfare is the Theban Sacred Band. 150 Homosexual pairs that fought side by side. They were supposed to be invincible...until Alxander slaughtered all but a couple of dozen at Chaeronea.
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Kickaha
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2004-11-08, 15:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS66
True that, but women were still used in Sparta as war trophies for the soldiers. So Spartan hoplites were not truly homosexual.
Never said they were. There's this amazing middle ground called bisexuality....

Not to mention that such bonds were apparently expected to last while only in the field. When back in civilian society, other rules applied.
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EDS66
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2004-11-08, 16:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
Never said they were. There's this amazing middle ground called bisexuality....

Not to mention that such bonds were apparently expected to last while only in the field. When back in civilian society, other rules applied.
For some reason I inferred it.

The sacred band, apparently was homosexual to the bone. No naturally-lubricated coitus for them.
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