[Doxxic]

Hi there, WINE seems to be all you need to run Windows programs on an Intel computer with Linux, Solaris or FreeBSD.

This is what the WINE website says about the program:
"Wine is a translation layer (a program loader) capable of running Windows applications on Linux and other POSIX compatible operating systems. Windows programs running in Wine act as native programs would, running without the performance or memory usage penalties of an emulator, with a similar look and feel to other applications on your desktop."

As far as I understand, it does work with the X11 window manager.

If it's freely downloadable, that would mean that the Intel Mac could run Windows software from the beginning...???

Please comment, I'm far from an expert...

More info: http://www.winehq.com...

[staph]

It's been ported to Darwin (see darwine), and even runs on PPC.

The shift to x86 will mean that they don't have to sort out binary compatibility, so there's a very good chance it will run from day 1.

[Brad]

Moving to Third-Party Products since this isn't so much a subject of speculation.

[Hobbes]

I've heard WINE is still a considerable PITA to work with -- some things work fine, a lot don't, and a lot almost work all right, with lots and *lots* of little nitpicky problems ranging from cosmetic to serious usability issues.

I think WINE's existence is a good thing for Apple, but there's no way Apple will seriously acknowledge it, or want to put resources into it, as if it gets *too* good -- extremely unlikely, seems to me, w/o enormous amounts of time and effort -- it does damage the case for making Mac software.

As an alternative to VPC for geeks and low-budget Mac users (like students), and as an ultra-"just in case...." plan B/C though... it's a good thing.

[Brad]

Keep in mind:

Darwine does not run existing Windows x86 binaries such as Word or Excel.

It only runs binaries compiled for PowerPC that use the Win32 API. So, basically that means you can only run freshly-compiled (and patched for endianness) open-source Windows software through Darwine until the developers patch in support for x86 code emulation through QEMU.

WINE Is Not an Emulator.

[staph]

Mind you, they are doing serious work on the emulation layer. Pierre d'Herbemont was responsible for the Mac port of Qemu.

They're also attempting to put together a Quartz driver, so they can avoid the X11 dependency. I'm not sure how that's proceeding.

[Hobbes]

Hmm, Crossover adds an interesting element into the mix...

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06...over/index.php

Has anyone used Crossover / Crossover Office? I'm curious whether CodeWeavers have successfully removed some of the obstacles that make WINE such a nuisance...

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Hobbes I'm curious whether CodeWeavers have successfully removed some of the obstacles that make WINE such a nuisance...

Not likely.

WINE can't run on current Macs because it still needs an emulator for x86 binaries. Again, PowerPC Windows binaries run just fine. It's the binary code that's the problem.

CrossOver Office will only run on Intel-powered Macs, negating the need for a binary emulator. Thus, it's really a no-brainer to get it working since all the hard work has already been done in getting Darwine up and running for running same-processor Windows binaries.

[Hobbes]

Originally Posted by Brad Not likely. WINE can't run on current Macs because it still needs an emulator for x86 binaries. Again, PowerPC Windows binaries run just fine. It's the binary code that's the problem. CrossOver Office will only run on Intel-powered Macs, negating the need for a binary emulator. Thus, it's really a no-brainer to get it working since all the hard work has already been done in getting Darwine up and running for running same-processor Windows binaries.

Ah, wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about WINE on PPC -- that was never going to seriously happen. I'm talking about all the quirky UI and usability issues that result when running WINE on x86.

IOW, is Crossover able to transform WINE to a functional solution for everyday users, or does it still have a long way to go? I suspect the latter, but having not used the product, I'm keeping an open mind...