[Ryan]

Dumb question for you bike aficionados:

I'm looking for a bike that is suitable for a short commute (2.5 miles over good roads) but also good on trails. I just moved to Colorado and I've been hiking every weekend, now I'm looking to add biking into the mix. Plus, my company just moved offices and my 10 minute walk to work became a 30 minute walk to work. I'm not looking to bike up Pikes Peak but a bike that could handle moderate trails in good condition would be fantastic.

Is there anything reasonable for around, say, $3-400?

[adamb]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray How’s the training for your June trip coming along, adamb? And are you planning to watch the Giro start in Northern Ireland?

Funny you should mention that... I spent yesterday morning cycling around various hotels in Belfast looking for the teams. I managed to see Team Sky head out (after grabbing a few photos), passed Katusha on the road, saw Lampre get a bit lost, and ran into Nico Roche at a set of traffic lights. It's pretty surreal cycling around and seeing all these world class athletes. Unfortunately the weather has been pretty typical for here and it was cold and wet. It's a pity as it was properly nice a couple of weeks back, and some of the riders definitely don't seem to be enjoying it (a certain golden shod BMC rider probably looked as wet and miserable as I have ever seen a person look!)

I have a few days of cycling around to watch the stages planned too. The team presentation is tonight and team time-trial is tomorrow which should be good to watch live. There was a sportive on last weekend where we rode stage 2 (140 miles!) which has helped build excitement too. Hopefully the weather will pick up as it is quite a beautiful part of the world when the sun shines, it's just a pity that doesn't happen to often!

[Dorian Gray]

Colorado seems to be prime cycling territory, from what I see on VeloNews. Good place to have a bike.

A used bike may be worth looking at in that price range. If you shop carefully, $300 just about gets a new bike designed for proper use (as opposed to a BSO: a bike-shaped object designed for the 50 miles of lifetime use it will on average receive), but spending a little more – around $500 – substantially improves the quality.

Generally, I would suggest something with 30+ mm semi-slick tyres aimed more at road use than trails. That would do tidy trails well enough, whereas anything aimed at off-road use would only very badly do roads. Avoid suspension, disc brakes, and gimmicks of any kind: those things cost a lot of money to work well (and aren’t needed anyway). Spend your money on carefully chosen geometries (i.e. a reputable brand), a quality diamond frame, functional wheels, Shimano gears, and solid brakes (e.g. Shimano, Tektro, etc.).

Specifically, maybe something from the Globe range, if you hunt around for a deal? I test-rode a Work 2 and was impressed. Globe is a Specialized brand.

[Dorian Gray]

Whoops, I didn’t spot your comment earlier, adamb. Ha, trust the weather to be grim in Belfast in May. (It’s been grim in Paris too, though. It’s 12°C and lashing down right now, in fact.)

The team time trial tomorrow will be fascinating to watch, but I’m especially looking forward to Saturday’s stage up the Antrim coast (lucky you for riding it, though that’s a damned good distance. Good work!). If the weather’s good it will be breathtakingly beautiful on TV, and if it’s raining horizontally there might be echelons and upsets. Can’t wait.

[adamb]

Yea Saturday should be good either way. The tourist board probably would have got sued for false advertising if the weather was nice on TV

As for training, it's going well. Have 3000km in the legs already this year (which was the total for all of last year) so just need to focus on some climbing. I have a 70 mile sportive in the Mournes next week which should both be pretty beautiful scenery, and a good test, so I'm looking forward to that!

And as for your question about a rack and panniers, I don't have either, so unfortunately can't give any advice there. Sorry!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray Colorado seems to be prime cycling territory, from what I see on VeloNews. Good place to have a bike. A used bike may be worth looking at in that price range. If you shop carefully, $300 just about gets a new bike designed for proper use (as opposed to a BSO: a bike-shaped object designed for the 50 miles of lifetime use it will on average receive), but spending a little more – around $500 – substantially improves the quality. Generally, I would suggest something with 30+ mm semi-slick tyres aimed more at road use than trails. That would do tidy trails well enough, whereas anything aimed at off-road use would only very badly do roads. Avoid suspension, disc brakes, and gimmicks of any kind: those things cost a lot of money to work well (and aren’t needed anyway). Spend your money on carefully chosen geometries (i.e. a reputable brand), a quality diamond frame, functional wheels, Shimano gears, and solid brakes (e.g. Shimano, Tektro, etc.). Specifically, maybe something from the Globe range, if you hunt around for a deal? I test-rode a Work 2 and was impressed. Globe is a Specialized brand.

Thanks! I think I'd be willing to bump my budget up to $500 if it meant getting something that would last for a while.

The trails around here are pretty well maintained (other than the ones still destroyed by last year's flood...) so I think you're suggestion will do nicely.

[Dorian Gray]

Live video coverage of the Tour of California as Bradley Wiggins hits the course.

[PB PM]

So bike riding comrades, I'm searching for a new bike. Thought I'd ask the experts for some tips! Until last year I was riding a cheap (aka $199 junk) mountain bike, but it was terrible to ride because it was heavy, and was poorly manufactured. Namely the frame and drive sprocket were not aligned properly. Even though the sprocket was replaced under warranty it still had alignment problems and no amount of repairs would fix it, so the chain constantly fell off while changing gears.

Anyway I'm thinking about cycling around more, at least locally, due to rising fuel costs (locally $1.49 a litre / $5.60 a US gallon), so I'm looking for something well made, in the $350-450 range. Some family members got some higher quality hybrid bikes last year, but I don't have the budget for a $600-800 bike, so that isn't an option. I have mixed feelings about bikes with shocks, and while I don't mind them on the front, on the rear I'm not so sure. I've tried bikes with just front shocks and liked that, since my arms were more released as a result, but when I test rode my brother in laws bike, one of the hybrids I mentioned earlier, and found that the rear shock seemed to steal power, particularly when going up any kind of hill. I'm even sure what brands to look at right now, since I'm not sure what I can get in the area, but any tips in what to look for would be helpful!

[Dorian Gray]

Suspension sounds attractive, but as you’ve noticed it robs pedalling power. Even front suspension slows you down by bobbing and adding a significant amount of weight.

What’s more, any money spent on suspension can’t be spent on other things, and at normal bike prices that’s a major reason to forgo suspension. The money can almost always be better spent on making the frame out of better-suited materials, making the brakes and gears work better, and making everything lighter.

The truth is, (a) at bicycle speeds, (b) with suitable pneumatic tyres, (c) on roads, you don’t need suspension to be safe and comfortable. If you’re trying to negotiate forest ruts at speed, that’s another matter.

Keep in mind that suspension also requires reasonably frequent servicing (oil, new seals, etc.), adding to ongoing costs.

Disc brakes, while highly effective (from reputable brands at least), are also unnecessary on road-going bikes. They increase weight in several ways: the fork needs to be beefed up to support the torque reaction; the wheel needs to be beefed up (spokes) to support the torque; and the brake itself weighs more than a rim brake. Brake fluid (in hydraulic discs) is expensive and must be replaced with the same caution as car brakes. Rotors are under 2 mm thick and are easily bent if you bump them against another bike while parking in the city.

Good discs work very well, and they have transformed off-road riding, but they are one of the first things I would strike off my list if I were looking for an affordable, high-quality, lightweight bicycle for use on roads.

For these reasons and the things I mentioned to Ryan, I would search for a dealer of a well-known brand, e.g. Cannondale, Diamondback, Gazelle, Giant, Jamis, Kona, Marin, Schwinn, Specialized, Trek, René Herse (just joking!) – to name a few big ones I guess you’ll find in North America – and then choose the simplest, least-flashy, most expensive bike you can afford in their urban/hybrid/recreation range.

That is the surest way to understand Frank J Urry’s statement: “Why cycling for joy is not the most popular pastime on earth is still a mystery to me.”

But I’m not a spoilsport. If you want to try a flashier bike you will find many examples in the same brands I listed above (who after all respond to market pressures). You may be very happy with it too, even if it weighs a little more, needs a little more maintenance, and doesn’t quite ride as well to an experienced cyclist.

[PB PM]

Thanks for the tips Dorian. (Reads first post again... wow lots of typos )

[PB PM]

One of the best local dealers has Giant and Specialized, so it looks like there are quality bikes available locally. Now for the hard part, research.

[Brave Ulysses]

McKenzie Pass, Oregon

Every late April/May Oregon Dept of Transportation clears a bike path through the pass for bikes. It remains closed to cars and open to bikes until June 16.

[adamb]

Originally Posted by PB PM Anyway I'm thinking about cycling around more, at least locally, due to rising fuel costs (locally $1.49 a litre / $5.60 a US gallon), so I'm looking for something well made, in the $350-450 range.

I've been looking at single speed/fixie bikes lately since my commute is going to be increasing in a month or so (only to a couple of miles, but it's as good an excuse as any to buy another bike!) Depending on your terrain that may be a good option? You get the light weight of a road bike with added simplicity and generally less expense. Obviously large hills and strong headwinds are worth considering, but if the majority of your riding would be on nice flat routes that would be my choice for the money.

[PB PM]

There are a lot of hills in this area, so a single speed bike wouldn't be much fun.

BTW, conclusion to the story, I picked up a Giant Roam 3 today. I does have front shocks, but they can be locked out for street riding.

[murbot]

So I bet we have a lot of BMX riders here, eh?

*crickets*

I sold my Kona 29'er a couple of weeks ago. I just wasn't using it. I don't know why, just no one to ride with and no time and I'm lazy. Anyway I figured I'd sell it before it depreciated too much further. I did well. Paid $1099 for it 3 years ago and I sold it for $800.

I don't know. I had big plans for riding it but I just never did. Busy with other things and it always got put to the end of the list. This is super embarrassing, but the total on the odometer was 104 km!! Jesus. If it was 500 it would still be kind of embarrassing.

So anyway I'm sitting here with 8 large in my pocket (it's 8 large to me ) and I'm not sure how exactly, but I'm this close to finding myself bruising elbows and tearing the skin off my shins on a new BMX. I feel kind of dorky in the store looking at these little things. But I guess that's one of the perks of being 40. You can buy things like this without it being too big a deal, and you're old enough that you don't give a flying shit what anyone thinks.

Damn these bikes have changed since the late 80's. No front brakes, and in certain circles you get bashed for having rear brakes now?? Shit my best tricks back in the day involved a front brake and a gyro! They also had seats high enough that you could like, sit on them and pedal to places. Of course they also weighed a hell of a lot more than 25 pounds. One thing that seems to have not changed one bit is the price. I swear the mid-range bikes were $400-500 in the local shop and you could get a really sweet setup for a grand back in the 80's, basically the same as right now. (this is CDN pricing in shops up here) Compared to mountain bikes this is cool, considering my Kona was basically a starter bike compared to the other high tech shit in the shop. Buddy was test riding a $3600 mountain bike the other day while I was in there, and I think that's considered kind of normal.

I'm getting lots of blank stares and silence as I tell friends and family about this, but what the hell. I only have a few good years left, I'm going to have some fun this summer.

[Dorian Gray]

(Blank stare.)

My brother has a BMX. I think it was about £250, ordered online to save pennies. It arrived in a box, and when opening it with a knife he cut his finger so badly he ended up in hospital. I think that’s about par for the course for BMX riders.

PB PM: how’re you doing? Have you got over the early arse pain?

[addison]

Originally Posted by murbot So I bet we have a lot of BMX riders here, eh? *crickets*

I was big into BMX in the '80s. Built myself a Torker (you probably never heard of it) Was kind of a rare frame with a twin top tube. Had a blast on that thing. We had some nice trails and even built a track in the woods. Did some crazy stuff on those bikes. Rims were always a sticking point though. They bent easy and I never was any good at truing them so I just ended up throwing some Tuff Wheels on the bike. They were pretty indestructible.

None of the kids I see in my neighborhood even seem to ride bikes now. They seem like a bunch of pussies. Walking around staring at phones!! Lol.

[murbot]

I have definitely heard of it, though I never saw one myself. That's a flashy ride for sure.

So I grabbed one the other day. Man am I out of shape. With this low seat it's like pedal hard, then stand and coast. And the tricks... gone. My balance is shyte. Trying to do a manual... is hilarious. I almost killed myself trying a hang 5. I figured a bunnyhop 180 would be easy enough. It, uh, is not.

My friggin' calves and arms/hands are fried. But I'm having a blast anyway. Even not being able to do sweet shit all, I'm having fun. It'll come back to me eventually. (I hope)

[torifile]

I went on a long (for me) 20 mile ride last week. It was fun but painful. My bike, a Cannondale Quick 4, is a hybrid so it wasn't really built for long trips. My posture was all wrong and my saddle was pretty uncomfortable. Any suggestions for how to make the ride less uncomfortable?

I went by REI to see what they had to say and the guy was basically like "if you want a road bike, get a road bike". Of course, he didn't say anything about how to come up with the $1k+ it would cost to do that.... Damn, road bikes are expensive!

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray PB PM: how’re you doing? Have you got over the early arse pain?

Whoops missed this. No arse pain actually, the bike is very comfortable to ride compared to my earlier bikes. I have one of those soft gel seat covers that I put over the standard set, which helps. I also really enjoy how quickly I can travel, compared to the traditional mountain and BMX bikes I used in the past. I started out with shorter rides and worked my way up to 10km rides with in a week. Then the heat wave hit (it was 37ºC one day last week), and I've been on a hit of a break from riding as a result. Anyway, based on my travel time, I figure I'm averaging 18KM/H. Nothing compared to what someone in tip top shape on a street bike could do, but an improvement on my previous mountain bike.

[gsxrboy]

Originally Posted by torifile I went on a long (for me) 20 mile ride last week. It was fun but painful. My bike, a Cannondale Quick 4, is a hybrid so it wasn't really built for long trips. My posture was all wrong and my saddle was pretty uncomfortable. Any suggestions for how to make the ride less uncomfortable? I went by REI to see what they had to say and the guy was basically like "if you want a road bike, get a road bike". Of course, he didn't say anything about how to come up with the $1k+ it would cost to do that.... Damn, road bikes are expensive!

The distance isn't an issue on that bike. For the shop to tell you to go buy a new one is nonsense.

(The one you ride is always better than the one you don't)

First thing to check is always your seating position i.e. seat height and reach to the bars. Getting used to longer trips will always give you ass pain but you toughen up to it. Go grab some "shy shorts" from your lbs or online, they are normal looking shorts with build in riding padding, they'll help out for sure. Cheapies maybe $30-40 depending on how flash you wanna go and currency. Saddles are a very complex thing and everyone will have different opinions and likes on them. Some lbs will let you demo some to see if you like them, some wont, and different saddles are not transferrable to different types of bikes. Drop bar roadies need more narrow style because of the way you sit, same goes for flatbars where you sit upright more and have different pressure points. Before you spend any money on things like that... posture, padded shorts. Cheap and useful. Ride more, be healthy and happy

[El Gallo]

Originally Posted by torifile I went on a long (for me) 20 mile ride last week. It was fun but painful. My bike, a Cannondale Quick 4, is a hybrid so it wasn't really built for long trips. My posture was all wrong and my saddle was pretty uncomfortable. Any suggestions for how to make the ride less uncomfortable? I went by REI to see what they had to say and the guy was basically like "if you want a road bike, get a road bike". Of course, he didn't say anything about how to come up with the $1k+ it would cost to do that.... Damn, road bikes are expensive!

The above advice is really good. The only thing I would mention is to add bar ends if you don't have any now. You can pad them if you want but adding them allows you more hand positions which can help with numbness or pain. Also a change of grips too. The Ergon GP2 is basically a two for one.

[Eugene]

You want saddle height to be the perfect height so your butt doesn't shift during a pedal stroke, not too high or low. Most people should have their saddles completely level.

In addition you can shift your position on the saddle every once in a while to reduce soreness. Largely this will effect which muscles you use during pedaling. Usually when I'm a bit tired on a flat portion of road, I scoot up an inch and sit more upright. I like the Fizik Arione series for its length and it's narrow, but not too narrow for my body type.

Harder saddles are more comfortable on long rides. Remember you basically want your pubic bone to make contact on the middle of the saddle and really nothing else.

[Dorian Gray]

Soreness around your sit bones is normal and unavoidable until your body gets used to sitting on a bicycle saddle. This process can take a few weeks to a couple of months, during which time you should ride as often as your bum can reasonably tolerate.

Other discomfort is avoidable, though. The saddle should support your weight on your sit bones. If it’s too soft (e.g. gel-filled) or angled too much up or down your weight may be partially supported on soft tissue, e.g. your perineum. On short rides this spreading out of the weight may actually feel better than putting all your weight on your tender sit bones (hence the popularity of gel saddles among new cyclists), but in the long run you need a firm saddle, all weight on your sit bones, and sit bones accustomed to the saddle.

Ideal saddle height is contentious, but generally speaking inexperienced riders have their saddle too low. A good starting point would allow you to lock your knee straight with your heel on the pedal. When you then pedal with the ball of your foot your knee will adopt a slight bend at the pedal’s lowest point.

A critical but often overlooked adjustment is the forward-rearward placement of the saddle. Modern frames by and large have excessively steep seat tubes (e.g. 73–74 degrees when 72 degrees would be better for many). As a result saddles often have to be positioned near their rearward limit of adjustment for acceptable comfort.

The saddle should be positioned forward and backward such that when your leading foot is pushing down on the pedal it essentially eliminates weight on your hands, i.e. your weight is supported by feet and bum. The handlebar is for steering, not supporting substantial weight.

Since the leading pedal is in front of the saddle but behind the bars, it stands to reason that if you pedal harder you will need a more forward saddle and if you pedal gently you will need a more rearward saddle. Bikes often come from the shop set up (in ignorance and because of the steep seat-tube angles I mentioned) for very hard pedalling and not the pedalling of a beginner on a two-hour ride. This causes hand and wrist discomfort from carrying excessive weight. Sliding the saddle all the way back is often a decent starting position to rectify this.

Only once the saddle is properly positioned for your riding power should you worry about handlebar placement, which is in any case far less critical for performance and comfort. You may need to buy a new stem, often a shorter one (though less so on a hybrid than a road bike).

It’s never a good idea to shorten the reach to the handlebar by sliding the saddle forward. Google “KOPS” (knee over pedal spindle) for much more.

A hybrid should be comfortable for long rides if properly set up. Many Europeans, e.g. Germans, tour for weeks on something essentially similar. A road bike will only be more comfortable in that it may allow a more aerodynamic position and thus less pedalling effort for a given speed. But the aero position itself requires many hours of training before it’s remotely comfortable, and any road bike will only be comfortable after painstaking adjustment of position over weeks of experimentation. They are the most fussy of all bikes in terms of fit.

[torifile]

Thanks for all the ideas, guys! I went back to REI yesterday to discuss options and the mechanic there (not the sales guy) told me about a few adjustments I could make. I flipped the stem so my handlebars are down so I can get a lower crouch, and adjusted my seat a bit. I didn't even know I could make those adjustments!

I'm looking into bar ends to see if they'll give me a better/different position, too. I'm planning on a long ride in the next couple of days so we'll see if these adjustments make a difference. I just don't want to get turned off to cycling because I'm uncomfortable - it seems like a really great way to get fit and enjoy it.

[Eugene]

Huh, if you're going for a more comfortable ride, why are you trying a more aggressive riding position? You are shifting your body's center of gravity forward, putting more weight on your arms and abs.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by Eugene Huh, if you're going for a more comfortable ride, why are you trying a more aggressive riding position? You are shifting your body's center of gravity forward, putting more weight on your arms and abs.

Not really more comfortable but better ride. I was trying to get a more aggressive position and I was uncomfortable because of that. At least that was my theory.

[Dorian Gray]

It’s hard to say without seeing you on the bike, but I suspect much of your discomfort comes from simply not being used to cycling. That will go away with time.

If by a more aggressive riding position you mean a lower torso and head, that can only be comfortable with (a) strong core muscles accustomed to supporting your torso and head in the low position, and (b) hard pedalling to keep weight off your hands. A low position is only suitable for high sustained power. Dutch bikes put you in an upright position for a very good reason! You’ll probably want a position between these extremes.

Unless REI is very different to similar shops in Europe, I would not trust their advice on bike fit. Heck, I don’t even trust specialist bike shops here. The great majority of cyclists ride bikes that aren’t set up properly for their riding style, and shop staff are one of the culprits in this state of affairs.

If you’re fit and healthy and only do short rides you may be able to tolerate a badly fitting bike. But even then it pays to get the fit precisely right – especially the saddle position relative to the bottom bracket.

If you have an hour you should read this CTC thread and Google everything you don’t understand, paying particular attention to 531colin’s posts. He designed bikes for a living until he retired recently, and he still regularly does 100 miles in complete comfort. (The 531 in his username refers to the steel.)

[Dorian Gray]

And a tip: replace your tyres. Most new bikes come with poor tyres. Cars are tested for fuel efficiency, giving manufacturers a strong incentive to put good (i.e. expensive) tyres on new cars, but bikes have no such regulatory requirements. Consequently the most awful rubbish is sold with new bikes.

This matters greatly. Rolling resistance from average tyres is roughly equal to air resistance (drag) at about 14 miles per hour, so half your power as a cyclist is wasted on rolling resistance at these speeds. The difference in rolling resistance between the best tyres and the worst tyres (e.g. those sold on low-cost bikes) is about a factor of two. So you can cycle significantly faster by simply fitting better tyres.

Comfort also improves by a shocking amount with light, supple sidewalls.

What are good, supple, fast tyres? There are several, but for hybrids one excellent choice is the Vittoria Voyager Hyper, which until recently was called the Vittoria Randonneur Hyper (identical tyre). Make sure you don’t get the non-Hyper version, which is pedestrian at best. The Voyager Hyper is available in 32 mm, 35 mm, and 38 mm widths; wider is better, basically, but check whether your bike can accept them.

Another fine choice for hybrids is the Panaracer Pasela (Panaracer is Panasonic’s bicycle-tyre division), but get the model without PT or TG puncture protection. Puncture-protection features from all brands always make tyres slower and less comfortable. Puncture protection is good if you’re commuting to a train station; it’s bad if you’re cycling for pleasure, fitness, touring, or racing.

Tyre choice makes a much greater difference to speed than anything else you can do to your bike. Drivetrain components (e.g. Shimano Ultegra instead of Shimano Claris) make almost no difference to speed. Even saving several kilograms by buying an expensive carbon bike has much less effect on normal roads than simply fitting fast, supple tyres with minimal puncture resistance and running them at the right pressures (PDF).

[adamb]

I totally forgot a trip update! 7 days cycling with 680km and 20,000m of ascent. Pretty awesome stuff! I couldn't recommend the tour company enough. Just turned up and cycle, which with the scenery in the Alps is pretty spectacular. Managed to do Alpe d'Huez twice on what was supposed to be the rest day, and having done a lot of the major climbs it's definitely going to be even more fun watching the pros.