[Trumpetman]

A Cold Latina

This has got to be the stupidest complaint about an ad campaign I have ever read.

"For years, Hollywood has portrayed Latinas as hot and spicy -- meaning loose and promiscuous," protester Veronica Suarez said. The ad campaign "subliminally promotes racist stereotypes of Latinas," she added.

Since when does being considered "hot" and sexy suddenly become a bad thing? The connection to loose and promiscuous has no justification. It is just a figment of their imagination.

However the reality is that if anything this Veronica Suarez's attempt to impose American puritanical values onto Latin culture. Only in America would being pretty = you must want to have evil sex with everyone.

Sad, very sad.
Nick

[billybobsky]

come on.... i mean this is hollywood where even in the harry potter movies the bankers look like stereotypically jewish elves... yeah, the studios bank on stereotypes... i mean, when was the last time you saw a woman take out an armored convoy without the assistance of another individual? and how many times has arnold done the same?

why not portray every damned individual as a puritanical victorian prude or would that offend the sensibilities of the hot, sexy but not promiscuous among us?

[alcimedes]

here i thought trumpetman had come up with a great new summer drink......

[Moogs]

Now I understand my sub-conscious urge to wink at young Latinas when they walk by... Labatt has subliminaly planted the idea in my head that Latina women are hot and spicy, which of course we all know is code for "loose". I feel so dirty... so used.

How am I supposed to think for myself when there are evil billboards all over the place??

[addabox]

So just out of curiosity, would you be down with an ad campaign built around the slogan: "Finally, a small dicked black man"? Cause how could there be anything bad about being well hung?

Well, unless there was this, you know, minority thing wherein you already had to contend with being routinely portrayed as thugish, oversexed and violent. But that's cool, cause we all like to live vicariously through those street animals. Have you seen em play basketball?

So what's wrong with "hot latinas"? Maybe the fact that latinas don't get any say in how that gets played? Quick, name me a celebrity latina who isn't hot, hot, hot.

So you're a say, young, attractive mexican woman who's more interested in studying biology than doing the shakira down at the club. Come on baby! Everybody know you bitches got it goin' on! Don't be like that! Somebody needs to teach you how to loosen up, get in touch with that fiery little tamale you been keepin' inside!

And how could that possibly bee a problem, since it's a compliment? You know they love it.

[SonOfSylvanus]

Despite the hyperbole, addabox is kinda right about the whole 'people having no say in a minority stereotype' thing

but...

As billbobsky said, public culture does work on stereotypes. Hell we all work on stereotypes - its a mechanism that sometimes gives us the first clue on how to react in a given situation and as such is not at all A Bad Thing. (e.g. That bulky, tattooed, leather-clad, bearded giant is walking slowly toward me, I know nothing else about him other than the way he looks, but I'm going to avoid him anyway.)

As long as we are aware that stereotypes can be, and in many cases are, wrong, why should we care about stereotypes? I am an adult and will stereotype and ridicule myself as a member of a minority social group (mulatto FYI, moreover, a mulatto disconnected from both African *and* European roots and soooo English middle-class) and do so for any other minority for that matter. Stop being so PC.

As long as statements are surely made in jest and as long as a *significant *majority* (of any minority) are *not offended*, let the puns and stereotypes commence.

P.S. "Finally, a small dicked black man" is kinda funny (but what would you use it to sell?), while "Finally, a cold Latina" is superb.

heh

heh heh

[addabox]

"PC" is a bullshit term used to dismiss a certain line of argument without having to try-- lazy, in other words.

The problem with stereotypes isn't that they exist, it's that they can be used by the dominate culture to sharply curtail the range of possibilities afforded to the minority.

If latinas were fully members of the larger culture (which they inevitably will be) the "hot" meme would be a single notion within a spread of diverse personae, just as "white men can't dance" is just a drop in the bucket of the manifold roles (wage earner, playboy, father, corporate raider, working guy, politician, intellectual, red-neck, reckless youth, rebel, jock, etc., etc.) associated with broadly inclusive term "white guys".

However, as it stands, latinas exist in the popular imagination as "hot" (young and attractive) or "domestic" (older and not so much).

Now it's interesting that "puritanism" has been cited as a source of denying latinas their "hotness", as it is exactly puritanism that has historically dealt with female sexuality by assigning it to an "animalistic" other. This safely locates the corrupting influence of eve's sin at some remove, where it can be either denounced or imbibed in as an exotic, forbidden pleasure.

There's plenty of documentation of the "witches" of early new england being raped before being burned-- the lure of "demonic" sexuality being hard to resist among the pious men of the day, especially when the woman in question had been entirely stripped of any power to define themselves. See also slavery, Josephine Baker, "the geisha" (you do know that asian women possess certain...talents...), etc.

Now I'm not arguing that nothing has changed since the crude abuse of centuries past-- we are clearly a more inclusive society, with a much broader definition of "normal" At the same time, however, I think it naive to imagine that these deep, atavistic wells of sex and race have no play in the present.

That play is perhaps inevitable, at least until a given group has enough access to power and wealth to craft their own image, but that doesn't require me to be cavalier about its manifestations, or not think about its meaning within the culture, or pretend that assigning woman to sex toy status is a compliment.

[Moogs]

All right let me deactivate my keyboard's sarcasm mode for a moment.

I don't know about anyone else, but I think some folks can't see the forest from the trees here. I think people do more damage by bringing nation-wide attention to these kinds of things (rallies, press conferences, whatever) than the actual billboard would bring by itself.

Lets take a step back and recognize some obvious factors that make this protest more about people having a need to make themselves heard in some way, than it is about proving this billboard is racist:

1) People remember most roadside billboards, about as well as they remember their second cousins' birthdays. They're fleeting images that compete with a constant barage of television and radio ads. Low impact.

2) Most people take beer ads about as seriously as they take woopie cushions. I doubt even the average couch potato is going to take their social cues or formulate their beliefs based on a Labatt billboard or Miller Lite spot on TV. They get their 20 seconds of boobie time, go to the fridge or cooler to check their stock, and that's the last they think of it. Beer ads sexist? Frequently. Is this one racist too? No.

3) The word "cold" here is used as an opposite to the word "hot". So the implication is, Latina women are "hot". Now let's bear in mind the obvious: "hot" almost always refers to how good-looking a woman is. The word is used by millions and millions of guys every day, to describe all kinds of women. I have never once heard the word "hot" used as a way to describe a promisquous woman. It's a compliment, albeit not of the formal variety... not an insult.

4) Occasionally "hot" might refer to a woman's (or a man's) temperment, but even then it can't be taken as a negative as related to race. If the billboard said "Cold Irish Lady" (because let's face it, there's a stereotype that Irish women have tempers), would that be racist? Not in a million fekking years would anyone make that argument. But because this is about Latina and not Irish women, suddenly "hot" can be allowed to take on negative conotations when it otherwise has none.

5) The person said Latina women are portrayed as "hot and spicy", which THEY equate to mean "loose" or promisquous. I DON'T. Quite literally if some guy off-handedly remarked that he saw a "hot and spicy" woman across the bar... I would first call him "putz" (because who says that, anyway??) and second I would assume the woman is good looking and has a strong personality (including maybe a temper). So what? Is it BAD to have a temper? Should everyone have a temperment that approximates people at an English tea party? Which brings me to..

6) The people protesting here are the ones making all kinds of stupid assumptions about the meaning behind this ad, and as I originally pointed out they're now drawing attention to all those negative assumptions. Had they just chosen a better example of Latino stereotypes, they might've actually been doing themselves and their cause a service, instead of a disservice.

We're a zero attention span nation. We can't watch a television ad or listen to a radio ad for 10 seconds, but we're going to be deeply affected (on a subconscious level no less) by a billboard we drive by at 40+mph? I don't know about you guys, but even in my own town where I drive by the same billboards five or six times a week... I can't tell you what any of them say.

The whole thing just seems ridiculous to me. I'm not saying beer ads are all in good taste (a great many of them are not), but people throw terms like racist and bigot and stereotype around too much sometimes. The real problem with [many beer ads] is that they portray women as sex objects (basically). So, were these folks to protest on behalf of women and not just Latina women, they might have something....

[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally Posted by Moogs --->8--- The people protesting here are the ones making all kinds of stupid assumptions about the meaning behind this ad --->8---

True </Budweiser... ahem, not appropriate>

As Moogs said, the advert is playing on the perception of women as sex objects/objects of desire, as most adverts do. Whether this is bad, is a different question - one that is not about racial stereotyping, but rather sexual exploitation.

"Hot Latina" is used in the advert as a specific designation within the overall category of "all women" - as "blond bombshell" and "exotic Asian" could be used, too. The overriding purpose of each of these expressions is to conjure up whatever sexual stereotype might be associated with them by the viewer. (My stereotype-ometer(tm) suggests that "hot Latina" = sexy/sultry; "blond bombshell" = 'has more fun'; "exotic Asian" = er... kinky/different?). "Hot Latina" just happens to have a racial parameter, as does "exotic Asian", but the sexualising aspect, not the racialising one is the defining feature of the expression. Protesters, then, should feel aggrieved for "all women" (not a racial sub-class of them) for "hot Latina" is a sexist generalisation (not a racist one).

I seem to have argued myself into a position, where I am saying that this advert is only acceptable if sexism is generally acceptable, and that may be partly true. But it also may be that the protesters in question chose to frame their anger at being stereotyped (negatively, in their opinion) in racial terms rather than sexual ones exactly because of the fact that sexism in the media is so readily accepted, while racialism still provokes outrage.

But, as I said before, if stereotypes (sexual or racial) are perpetuated in jest and received in kind, I really don't see too much of a problem. Please explain this to me, addabox, if you are still following this thread:

The problem with stereotypes isn't that they exist, it's that they can be used by the dominate(sic) culture to sharply curtail the range of possibilities afforded to the minority.

What range of possibilities afforded to the Latina minority are being curtailed by their being stereotyped as "Hot"?

That I make a clear distinction between statements/expressions and beliefs/intentions/motivations is a key part of my personal philosophy. When I grow-up (heh) and have children, I attend to allow them to swear quite freely in front of me and to say "Oh, fuck off Dad...*devil*", or "I had a really shit day today... *sulk*" as long as they do so casually and without malice or aggression. But as soon as their tone becomes bitter and hostile, swearing will become a no-no. I hope you see the relation I am trying to make with stereotypes here - that intentionality is crucial to how stereotypes should be received.

P.S. Oh, as for "PC" - it is most definitely "a bullshit term" that is certainly "often used to dismiss a certain line of argument without having to try". In fact, I will happily borrow your words in the future. However, I meant to use "PC" to suggest that your position, addabox, was overly-sensitive and too heavily based on absolute principles, rather than on a rational analysis of the specific advert and its likely intentions.

</no walk-over >

[Trumpetman]

Originally Posted by addabox So just out of curiosity, would you be down with an ad campaign built around the slogan: "Finally, a small dicked black man"? Cause how could there be anything bad about being well hung? Well, unless there was this, you know, minority thing wherein you already had to contend with being routinely portrayed as thugish, oversexed and violent. But that's cool, cause we all like to live vicariously through those street animals. Have you seen em play basketball? So what's wrong with "hot latinas"? Maybe the fact that latinas don't get any say in how that gets played? Quick, name me a celebrity latina who isn't hot, hot, hot. So you're a say, young, attractive mexican woman who's more interested in studying biology than doing the shakira down at the club. Come on baby! Everybody know you bitches got it goin' on! Don't be like that! Somebody needs to teach you how to loosen up, get in touch with that fiery little tamale you been keepin' inside! And how could that possibly bee a problem, since it's a compliment? You know they love it.

Okay, I'm going to hit on this a bit.

First you set up a bit of a strawman. You associate all aspects of a negative racial stereotype with the size of a black persons penis. As with the Latina example, they are not even remotely related. There is no way to even remotely associate the two. There are not people walking through the streets looking at men's crotches and attempting to use the information gathered to estimate the likelyhood that they engage in criminal behavior. If you claimed this for skin color in general you might have a point.

You then launch into a bit of a tirage about how some people, including some blacks who exploit themselves, portray black males.

I suppose I am "exploited" because all the white male charcters portrayed on television are ignorant, stupid idiots like Tim "the Toolman" Taylor (Allen), Homer Simpson, the entire CBS comedy line up, (King of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond, Yes Dear, etc.) Maybe I'm just a loser like The Drew Carey Show, or again an idiot like on According to Jim, or if I were black, like My Wife and Kids also on ABC.

In fact it is very hard to find a show or ad where the dad is not routinely portrayed as the most clueless, and stupid person in the entire household.

But remember, I must have had a "say." I remember when the secret white man world domination phone rang and I was asked how I wanted to be portrayed. They also asked if I wanted Latina women to be labeled "hot" since they had me on the phone as well.

As for your last paragraph where you attempt an or choice between the woman studying biology or shaking it at the club, who are you to say it has to be one or the other? Why must a woman give up her sexuality to meet your definition of intellectual? Does she have to dress in bulky sweaters and wear broken glasses as well? Why would you assume that a woman couldn't have a doctorate in biology and also shake it like Shakira at the club?

As for naming a latina celebrity who isn't hot, how is this any different for any other ethnic group? When did they suddenly start putting ugly people all over television?

Nick

[addabox]

Excellent posts! Glad to see such a high level of repartee over here at the org.

First of all, I think the whole "hot=promiscuous" thing is a bit of a red herring (although I realize it's cited in the original complaint). I think "hot=exaggeratedly sexual" is plenty enough to talk about.

Now as far as sex trumping race as an advertising gambit, I would argue that adding race to the mix augments and intensifies the usual "use this product and get laid" strategy, and that it does this because "race" in the context of "sex" evokes an erotics of power that varies from "dumb blondes" and "sexy librarians" in important ways.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, it is just a fact that part of the history of the west, America, and "others" is the exotic/forbidden/slave dynamic between white men and the "earthy/wild/animalistic" women of other races. Just as proper, civilized white women were expected to be demure and submissive, women of "hotter climates" were purported to exhibit a certain wantonness. When you combine that notion with the opportunity to wield real power over literally enslaved or economically dependent people, you get the vexed history of race and sex in America.

So I would maintain that all of that is in play in the advertising phrase "Finally, a cold Latina" and that moreover the advertising agency that created the campaign are entirely aware of that. Advertisers don't just throw shit out there, they work it long and hard to get whatever psychological toe hold they can, and if that means toying with sublimated ideas of dominance and gratification than all the better.

The meme "latinas are hot", which this ad exploits and extends, limits possibility by predefining personae around a very narrow set of attributes. Sure, every individual is free to strive for and create a personal identity, but we deploy those identities in a world were we are evaluated by other people who have real power over what we can do.

Of course, all of us are judged by stereotypes and preexisting notions, but the point is if we are not, as in this case, minority women, or more specifically, if we are white men, we are likely to have available to us a vast range of possible roles that are supported by depictions in the popular culture. I offered a list in my previous post, anyone could extend it ten fold. "Hot latina", on the other hand, is one of two, possibly three, ambient characters afforded hispanic women in America. That fact becomes significant when one's persona is put into play against larger cultural norms, like when you go to get a job, when you are a student, when you run for office, etc.

If you are a young hispanic woman and in the eyes of "the world" your primary attribute is "hotness" (and not the same hotness accorded young white women, remember, but a lustier, more primitive species of sexuality), then that is going to be not just a pain in the ass, but a real barrier to achievement.

As far as this instance being trivial, or it being evidence of overly delicate sensibilities to take this kind of stuff seriously: the entire culture is made of individual exchanges that accumulate. I don't think we have to wait for the president to announce that it's hot latina day to start to be alert to how the messages we receive are woven into the fabric of our world view.

Sure, we're all better people than that round here, but it is true that, like it or not, advertising is the most ubiquitous form of mass communication we
have and as such exerts enormous influence on what we come to believe is "life itself"; that is, the assumptions that are so embedded that we don't even stop to think about how we came by them. Yes, I know none of you ever do that.

I realize that pulling a single example out of the mix and going on at length like this appears ill proportioned, but I don't think it is. "Things like this" are where the image making happens, nowhere else. And in America, image is destiny.

[addabox]

Originally Posted by Trumpetman Okay, I'm going to hit on this a bit. First you set up a bit of a strawman. You associate all aspects of a negative racial stereotype with the size of a black persons penis. As with the Latina example, they are not even remotely related. There is no way to even remotely associate the two. There are not people walking through the streets looking at men's crotches and attempting to use the information gathered to estimate the likelyhood that they engage in criminal behavior. If you claimed this for skin color in general you might have a point. You then launch into a bit of a tirage about how some people, including some blacks who exploit themselves, portray black males. I suppose I am "exploited" because all the white male charcters portrayed on television are ignorant, stupid idiots like Tim "the Toolman" Taylor (Allen), Homer Simpson, the entire CBS comedy line up, (King of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond, Yes Dear, etc.) Maybe I'm just a loser like The Drew Carey Show, or again an idiot like on According to Jim, or if I were black, like My Wife and Kids also on ABC. In fact it is very hard to find a show or ad where the dad is not routinely portrayed as the most clueless, and stupid person in the entire household. But remember, I must have had a "say." I remember when the secret white man world domination phone rang and I was asked how I wanted to be portrayed. They also asked if I wanted Latina women to be labeled "hot" since they had me on the phone as well. As for your last paragraph where you attempt an or choice between the woman studying biology or shaking it at the club, who are you to say it has to be one or the other? Why must a woman give up her sexuality to meet your definition of intellectual? Does she have to dress in bulky sweaters and wear broken glasses as well? Why would you assume that a woman couldn't have a doctorate in biology and also shake it like Shakira at the club? As for naming a latina celebrity who isn't hot, how is this any different for any other ethnic group? When did they suddenly start putting ugly people all over television? Nick

I'm not going to go into the black guy thing, I'm not really getting what you mean. I was making a simple analogy.

It is flatly not true that all the white guys on TV are portrayed as idiots. I see doctors and lawyers, congressmen and mayors, rubes and good hearted simpletons, conniving bankers, ruthless entrepreneurs, misguided do-gooders, super heros, starship captains, priests, kindly grandfathers, dads in over their heads, romantic loners, heartless cads, desperate losers, former cops, dirty cops, crusading cops, reformed drunks, ambitious climbers, cynics, astronauts, office managers, janitors, junkies, delivery-men, murderers, the falsely accused, criminals with a heart of gold, spies, please don't make me go on.

Can't really say these characters are hard to find.

Your fantasies about hot intellectuals notwithstanding (and why did I know you were going to go there?), the point isn't what you think a women could be, it's what a woman wants to be, and if she doesn't happen to feel like being booty shaking hottie, campaigns like this make it all the harder.

All celebrities hot? Hmmmm, how about Rosie O'Donnell, Jane Pauley, Barbara Walters, Walter Matthau, Linda Hunt, Ray Romano, Jay Leno, Jason Alexander, Martha Stewart, Fran Drescher, Jim Belushi, Drew Carry, Roseanne Barr, Ellen deGeneres, Mollie Shannon, Dr. Phil, Rhea Perlman, Danny Devito, Bonnie Hunt, and Stockard Channing? Just off the top of my head. Now they are all perfectly nice looking people, but not a one of them "hot" in the sense we are talking about.

In other words, and as I have been saying, a vastly broader range of "types" are available to white people in show business. Which mean a vastly broader range of types are portrayed for us to see.

See?

[psmith2.0]

I've always found Molly Shannon quite attractive. Dare I say "hot". She's no Cheri Oteri, but...



I've not seen this billboard in question. Interesting.

[Moogs]

What if the billboard was targeting women and had a picture of Antonio Banderas on there? Would it be sexist or racist then?

If a woman calls a man "hot" (which I've overheard only about 1.2 million times in my life), is that wrong?

What about "smokin"? Can a person be referred to as "smokin" without inferring all the negative social stereotypes that go along with "people who smoke?"

Just wondering....

[addabox]

Originally Posted by Moogs What if the billboard was targeting women and had a picture of Antonio Banderas on there? Would it be sexist or racist then?

Yes, with the caveat that you have to take into account the very different cultural position of men versus woman.

If a woman calls a man "hot" (which I've overheard only about 1.2 million times in my life), is that wrong?

Depends. Merely observing a guy is hot, sure, who doesn't make judgments about other people's sexuality? Saying "I think we should hire the first guy, he's hotter", a problem. Saying, "I don't think we should hire the hispanic guy, he's hot but you know they can't control it", bigger problem.

What about "smokin"? Can a person be referred to as "smokin" without inferring all the negative social stereotypes that go along with "people who smoke?" Just wondering....

Only if they are actually ablaze.

[Moogs]

LOL. You've never heard that one? As in "She is smmmokin'!"

[psmith2.0]

I believe damn near everyone could stand to lighten up a tad, and quit looking for reasons to be offended. But that's just me.

[severely truncated, so others won't have to worry about my health. Besides, an opinion is a dangerous thing ]

[EDS66]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I believe damn near everyone could stand to lighten up a tad, and quit looking for reasons to be offended. But that's just me. I've never been remotely offended watching a black or Latino stand-up comic nail white guys for bad dancing, tight-ass walking, etc. (and I know that'll get the obligatory, tired-ass "but it's different because you're not a minority" comeback..spare me. What's good for one is good for the other, and having multiple sets of "rules" for what's funny or what's okay to say - or not say - based on something like the color of your skin strikes me as, well...racist. Never occurred to me that I should get all up in arms over something that doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form. And, truth be told, I wish it was a bit more of a two-way street. If I sit and take good-natured jabs at a live stand-up show, it doesn't even cross my mind that I'm going to get jumped in the street by black audience members, hopped up on the comedian's routine. I figure "well, tonight I was one of the punchlines...always gonna be someone". That's why I love Dave Chappelle so much. THAT is a funny man, and he gives it to EVERYONE and you can't ever get mad because all you can say is "yep, brother's got a point...". Unfortunately, I honestly do believe there are some who've taken "being perpetually offended" to a total artform. You just realize, going in, there's no winning or joy with them and so you just ignore them when you can, confront them when you have to. I know people - white heterosexual males, even, who, according to popular lore, should have nothing to worry about and who hold all the cards in today's world - who just seem to wake up every single fucking morning EXPECTING to be offended, outraged, pissed, hurt, shocked, etc. by something or another. And guess what, they usually get their wish, don't they? And they get tiresome REALLY fast... Attitude and outlook goes a LONG way in this type of stuff. Step back and look a bit more at the overall big picture and ask yourself is it really something worthy of a full-tilt torque-up session? Unless there's some sort of true, physical component or tangible harm being done - being beaten with ball bats, dragged from a pickup or lynched from tree branch - the answer is usually "no". People just like to yell about stuff all time time, and wear the "righteous indignation" robe all day long. Gives various leaders, spokespeople, activists and figureheads something to do with themselves. It can turn into a full-time gig, in some instances. Ask the good Reverend, he'll tell you. Pardon me while I duck...

Paul, man...I envy you. Your dopamine levels must be really high all the time to be able to crank out diatribes like that day in and day out. I need to find a way to self-medicate without too much damage to the liver.

[addabox]

Well, here's the thing.... I'm not "offended" at all by this kind of stuff.

What I am is interested in how notions of normality and "common sense" are propagated, because it seems to me that it is exactly at those points where we are advised to relax and not get so "torqued up" that the real mechanisms of how we come to believe what we believe are most industrious-- that is, right where we don't think we are choosing to believe anything at all, in particular, but rather just "noting the obvious" or "being reasonable".

Race is just one of a thousand ways the world gets made by the consensus of the majority, but it is a particularly striking one because in this case the world getting made is the very identity of entire groups of people.

Black comics doing routines about "white guys can't dance" doesn't change the fact that black America has no power whatsoever to dictate the terms of "whiteness"-- what it means to be white, what white people "are", what their characters are comprised of, what they should rightfully strive for, etc.

White people have the luxury of experiencing themselves as simply "people". The normative ground against which "otherness" is measured. I don't think the significance of that can be overstated, but it is exactly this sense of "just being" that makes it hard to get some white folk to look at the machinery of race-- they're too invested in the myth that there is no machinery, just people making choices. Because that is how they experience themselves.

I'm also struck by the idea that talking about this stuff = rage and indignation and humorlessness.

Why?

[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally Posted by addabox ...it is exactly this sense of "just being" that makes it hard to get some white folk to look at the machinery of race-- they're too invested in the myth that there is no machinery, just people making choices. Because that is how they experience themselves...

Razor sharp observation.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by EDS66 Paul, man...I envy you. Your dopamine levels must be really high all the time to be able to crank out diatribes like that day in and day out. I need to find a way to self-medicate without too much damage to the liver.

Not sure what that is. But no. That was the longest, pointed AO-esque thing I've typed in a while. No liver damage. No mad smileys, no ALL CAPS!!! phrasing, etc. I've only posted to about 3-4 topics in AO. And two of those have nothing to do with anything "sensitive" like race, etc. But I'll just stick to OS X and Future Hardware, lest you get quiver-lipped again.

Nice crack about drugs and "self-medication" and liver damage, though. Funny, funny stuff. Obviously the only explanation for someone thinking about something differently than you?

There was really nothing in there "outrageous" or offensive or "wild", was there? Surely we haven't degenerated into that much jelly? I mean, in a nutshell I asked "wouldn't it be better if we all just lightened up a bit when the situation didn't warrant true action or outrage"?

Pretty much. That was a "diatribe", huh? A mean, hurtful, cutting one, I'm sure, since I wasn't saying things "just so" (nicely going a long way toward proving my point, which is kinda neat)?



Addabox, I don't know. I guess that's just so.

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 There was really nothing in there "outrageous" or offensive or "wild", was there? Surely we haven't degenerated into that much jelly? I mean, in a nutshell I asked "wouldn't it be better if we all just lightened up a bit when the situation didn't warrant true action or outrage"?

Don't second guess yourself, hombre; I thought it was a great post with some often overlooked wisdom througout. Indeed, you must not deny us the few "stream of consciousness" posts we get from you each year; they are invariably among the best ones available. No LSD required.

[addabox]

I'll second that scates, I think it's cool that you're posting in AO v.2; hopefully the vibe won't go all asshatish ala certain, um.... other..... places with very similar names.....

Together, brothers and sisters, we can build a new world! A slightly less asshatish world!

[Moogs]

I think Artman posted a photo of an asshat once; it was unnerving.

[dmz]

My 2 year old son is, at this very minute, watching Elmer Fudd hunting wabbits.

Racist steryotyping of European immigrants beating the crap out of each other as humor---the nerve.

Quick---somebody call the ACLU!!!!


The horror. The horror.

[addabox]

Originally Posted by Moogs I think Artman posted a photo of an asshat once; it was unnerving.

Just the idea that there might be a photo is unnerving!

[EDS66]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Not sure what that is. But no. That was the longest, pointed AO-esque thing I've typed in a while. No liver damage. No mad smileys, no ALL CAPS!!! phrasing, etc. I've only posted to about 3-4 topics in AO. And two of those have nothing to do with anything "sensitive" like race, etc. But I'll just stick to OS X and Future Hardware, lest you get quiver-lipped again. Nice crack about drugs and "self-medication" and liver damage, though. Funny, funny stuff. Obviously the only explanation for someone thinking about something differently than you? There was really nothing in there "outrageous" or offensive or "wild", was there? Surely we haven't degenerated into that much jelly? I mean, in a nutshell I asked "wouldn't it be better if we all just lightened up a bit when the situation didn't warrant true action or outrage"? Pretty much. That was a "diatribe", huh? A mean, hurtful, cutting one, I'm sure, since I wasn't saying things "just so" (nicely going a long way toward proving my point, which is kinda neat)? Addabox, I don't know. I guess that's just so.

Hey, pscates, look carelefully at the etymology of "diatribe". I was not trying to put you down or insult you. I was actually paying you a compliment.

Best,

[tonton]

I like my women like I like my HabaÐeros, man.

[extremely offensive comment]That bitch is probably cold because she's had too many enchiladas and weighs 200 lbs. like far too many Latinas do. Or she's Catholic.[/extremely offensive comment]

Give me Shakira any day, and she can shake that reara all over me, baby.