On Pacific time
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
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I have such strong feelings with regard to the issue of female genital mutilation, that I don't even know where to begin.
A man in Georgia is being tried for the 'female genital mutilation' of his little 2-year-old daughter. Cutting out her clitoris with a pair of scissors. An article I read yesterday said that he had mutilated his little daughter to prevent the family from having shame. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2611047&page=1 Quote:
I was wondering if any of you gentlemen have any thoughts on this general issue? Oh, and please don't even *THINK* of using the polite term of "female circumcision" for this savage ritual. It is "female genital mutilation", period! Last edited by Windswept : 2006-10-28 at 07:29. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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another thing i don't understand is why male circumcision is okay with people
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Right Honourable Member
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While I don't condone his actions in the slightest, I guess that the man honestly didn't think he was doing any wrong since it's a cultural norm for him. Education is the key to stopping such practices.
And scissors!? Quote:
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hustlin
Join Date: May 2004
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male circumcision is fucked up, too.
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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The reasoning for male circumcision is archaic as well. Hygiene? Nope. For most of of us who are circumcised on these boards, it was a fad in the 70s-80s.
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hustlin
Join Date: May 2004
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Yeah, I hear the fad is dying out. Is that true?
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Veteran Member
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Poll?
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
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Windswept,
I agree wholeheartedly. This and honour killings is something I don't want to discuss (in order to understand) at all. I draw my line there. |
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Environmental Bloodhound
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Old world custom? Yes. Limited in scope? Yes. Acceptable in the modern world? No. Formerly known as cynical_rock censeo tentatio victum There is no snooze button on a cat. |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
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Male circumcision has an ancient religious background - The pain lasts a short time (As if I remember what happened to me 60 years ago.) There is no long lasting effect, however there is a lot of evidence that it makes hygiene more effective.
female circumcision is totally different. It is painful for life. It insures that the woman has little or no enjoym,ent from sex. Quite honestly - I look at female Circumcision and Honor killings as a relic of the 12th century as much as stoning and beheading! |
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Mac Mini Maniac
Join Date: Sep 2005
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That said, I don't care if it's a 100000 year old tradition, it needs to stop. Now. Daddy should have his dick cut in half to see how it is. Converted 07/2005. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mel-Bun!
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Honor killings...*ugh*
My dad worked in Yemen for a time. Mostly out in the desert, most of the people in the area were nomadic tribespeople. One incident that occurred while he was there was a teenage girl who had been killed by her younger brother, it was an honor killing. Apparently the girl had been raped and got pregnant. The brother held off killing her until she'd given birth just on the off chance that the baby *might* be a boy. Dumped the body in front of the refinery where my dad worked. No idea what happened to the kid. I agree, needs to stop. Yes, these folks might be living in the 12th century but that doesn't mean we can't reach out to them and educate them on the harm they're doing if possible. Specialists are people who know more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing. Generalists are people who know less and less about more and more until they know nothing about everything. I'm somewhere in the middle. |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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The female version of this is repugnant and inhumane to say the least. The clitoris serves no other purpose but to give the woman pleasure when making love. To cut it off is to state that you believe a woman doesn't have the right to feel pleasure during sex basically, even if she may have pleasure in other ways.
It's no different than forcing women to hide their faces behind the bee-keeper versions of their burkah (sp). Women shouldn't be seen, looked up to, valued, enjoyed, loved as a partner rather than a subservient. We can be all culturally sensitive and politically correct all we want; there are certain (current) practices of this faith which are both physically harmful and denigrating to women. The male version is much less denigrating or harmful in terms of its side-effects (assuming it's done in the hospital and not with ali-baba and his lucky cutting stone), but I'm guessing the belief that it's more hygienic has been put to rest. So... pointless, rather than despicable and inhumane IMO. ...into the light of a dark black night. |
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geri to my friends
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
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This kind of barbaric act, needs to be eradicated by education. In this day and age this kind of behaviour is not acceptable.
As for Male circumcision. In some cases it can be medically necessary, and that's ok but otherwise. Please note Carol. Even though you used the term (snip) i know you had absolutely no intention of any kind of pun. as this is to serious/sad. I usually don't miss an opportunity for a joke. But even i refuse to make lite of this very sad event. I used to be undecided.....But now I'm not so sure. No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. |
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Not sayin', just sayin'
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I don't know if it's been said but male circumcision isn't nearly as bad as female. In a first world country, male circumcision is moot point for the most part, but in other parts of the world, it prevents not only a lot of disease and infections among men, it actually helps prevent the spread of STDs. I know men supposedly have less sensitivity in the penis, but its not a major deal-breaker. I don't have a strong opinion on it in this part of the world but in places where AIDS is spreading rampantly, it's been shown to be a major health benefit in fact, believe it or not.
Female circumcision, despite the semantic similarity, is far worse, more painful and pointless. Its purpose and origins are far more nefarious as well, masquerading under a name that makes it sound like a health issue when it is quite the opposite in reality. |
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On Pacific time
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
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To make this a bit more meaningful, let's turn the scenario around for a moment.
Let's imagine that ALL eleven-year-old boys are taken, and with a rusty knife, a sharp stone, or a piece of broken glass are sliced up in such a way that all sexual pleasure is forever denied them for the rest of their lives. Can you imagine living your entire life like that? But that's exactly what happens to all those young girls. Many of the millions of young girls who are mutilated every year not only have their clitoris sliced out, but their minor labia are sliced completely off, and the rest of their tissue is stitched together so that only a small opening remains. This is all done to prevent them from ever feeling sexual pleasure in their lives, to make sure they are *nothing* but the property, and sexual receptacle, of their husband. Of course, for each childbirth, they have to be sliced open, and then sewn up again later. And this has gone on for 5,000 years!!! Last edited by Windswept : 2006-10-28 at 08:17. |
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Hoonigan
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
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My best friend had to take both of his sons in at around age 5 for medically necessary circumcision. Unpleasant, to say the least, and a little more traumatic than if it had been done immediately.
/just sayin' |
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Senior Member
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Not very nice at all. It is mutilation- it does need to stop.
But Carol's turned-around scenario- if I was 11 and I was mutilated like that, so I could not have sexual pleasure, I don't know what I would have done. No masturbation during my teen years, and then no sex during my adult- a very depressing scenario, put it that way. |
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Veteran Member
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This whole thing is disgusting.. and is all about the insecurities and hangups of the members of the society that do it.. All too often this kind of behaviour is linked to bogus 'religious' or 'health' reasons.. Goddam, it makes me mad Carol.
Just to give you all some perspective, my Wife is African in origin, and whilst nothing like this ever happened to her, it is all too common, and some of the other stories she has told me make my eyes water... Human beings are pretty fucked up sometimes.. well.. more often than sometimes.. May they all rot in whatever kind of hell they believe in. 'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take' Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt |
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Student extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
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Male circumcision is becoming an interesting ethical issue - there is strong evidence that it reduces HIV transmission. But is that reason alone to continue the practice (where not medically necessary)?
FGM is really a totally different issue, and black and white. It's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. The sky was deep black; Jesus still loved me. I started down the alley, wailing in a ragged bass. |
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Veteran Member
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‽
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"Unpleasant" is quite the understatement. This is nothing short of disgusting.
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Student extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
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Take your pick. "Male circumcision and HIV infection: 10 years and counting" from the Lancet is a good one (although it's an opinion piece, not a paper).
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Veteran Member
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Interesting thanks. As you say not really conclusive.. I wonder how much is simply to do with surface area of contact and friction per se!?!
The whole area of HIV is a turbulent one these days. With the whole gamut of conspiracy theories and corporate greed playing a part.. Most notably the large movement of varied and respected scientists even calling into doubt the link between HIV and AIDS, and attributing a lot of the 'mistakes' they say have been made to pharmaceutical fraud and a wish to find a use for stockpiled medicinces intended for a completely different and unsuccessful market-place... Bizarre. But I can't see how this can have much bearing on that really, so the anecdotal evidence seems worth further investiation. I would be interested in more studies of the lifestyles of the peope who have and have not been circumcised.. I would tend to expect that those who have been may live in a different demographic from those that have not. Not in every case of course, but I bet there is a trend there, that may also have a bearing on infection.. Just a thought. I am just happy that is a non-issue for me and that I can stay as Mother Nature intended. Just as everyone else should have a right to.. Male or Female. 'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take' Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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"Female circumcision" is a grossly misleading term. I am not circumcised, nor will my sons be (assuming I have sons eventually), but that is not remotely the point.
The rough equivalent, on a boy, to what is being done to these girls, would be cutting off the entire head of his penis, and maybe scraping some of the skin off the rest of his penis while you were at it. What is being done is in no way comparable to actual circumcision (literally, "to cut around"), no matter how you feel about that practice. The term is a euphemism, a banal name given to a heinous practice. EDIT: windowsrookie, I really thought there had been a poll, but now I can't find it. Maybe I'm imagining things again. Last edited by SledgeHammer : 2006-10-28 at 07:31. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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I watched a short at a film festival a few years ago that was exactly about this practice, only it was shown happening at a back alley "clinic" in a big city, possibly New York. It was a narrative, not a documentary. I thought that the people in the film were from India or Pakistan, maybe I'm wrong on that... haven't followed any links from this thread to see how widespread the practice is.
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On Pacific time
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
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Exactly!!!
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A poll asking 'what', for example? I 'had' thought of doing a poll. I appreciate your comments, SledgeHammer. Too often it is difficult for men to put themselves in the position of these poor young girls. I think your graphic description should be immensely helpful to some in that regard. I can't even *imagine* the agony that these poor young girls must suffer, not just in having their most tender flesh sawn off with a rusty knife, a sharp stone, or a piece of broken glass - though that experience must be unimaginably excruciating. But the immediate and constant, agonizing infections they must suffer for long periods afterward, especially considering that many of them live in grass huts on dirt floors. I mean, think of it. Their labia sawn off, and the area horribly infected? Can you imagine the agony that even 'walking' would inflict with every single step? Last edited by Windswept : 2006-10-28 at 08:32. |
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On Pacific time
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
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Of those stories your wife told you, are there any you might share with us? |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: A small town near Wolfsburg, Germany
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These two practicise have nothing in common. I wouldn't have my son (if I had a child) being circumcised, anyway. But this mutilation of the female genitaly is a totally different level - it's just a barbarian act. Denying a girl / woman her sexual pleasure and sentencing here basically to lifelong pain is just plain outrageous! I'd like to put the balls of the men which are mandating these acts into a vise ... The horrible thing is (as far as I have learnt about this activities from other sources) that there are still mothers which are are involved in these actions, too, either because "it was always done this way"... My photos @ flickr The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. -- Benjamin Franklin |
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On Pacific time
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Moderator's Pub
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A girl must be mutilated or she won't be acceptable to a future husband. That's why the mothers become involved. All of it is based on profound ignorance and the most primitive cultural backwardness. In a completely male dominant society, the woman has no importance. She is completely subservient. No wonder this mutilation has lasted 5,000 years. There are ignorant, barbaric men in our society even today who perpetuate this kind of subservience by the way they treat their wives. Visit any run-down trailer park in America and you'll find the same mentality alive and flourishing in our own home-grown brutes. And not just in trailer parks either. There was a New York attorney (years ago) who constantly smashed his fist into his wife's face. Her nose had been broken so many times that it was just permanently flattened, and all the bones in her face had been crushed. His treatment of her came to light when he ended up killing their lovely young daughter. The most sick and appalling abuse goes on even today behind closed doors and in the privacy of people's homes. It is all so very sad. |
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