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Official Space Exploration Coolness Thread
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kscherer
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2020-06-04, 11:30

Wow! Two successful launches and two successful barge recoveries less than three days apart. These guys are nailing it!
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turtle
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2020-06-05, 09:06

Yeah, they make space travel look easy at this point. Clearly it isn't but they make the old NASA crafts look so antiquated.
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Bryson
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2020-06-05, 12:49

I love that the announcer always sounds pleasantly surprised when they say "liftoff!" Like they were reasonably sure nothing would happen.
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kscherer
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2020-06-05, 13:12

I've been watching some videos from Everyday Astronaut, and the way he describes SpaceX's ambitions and design style, I think you may actually be correct.
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Brave Ulysses
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2020-06-05, 22:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Yeah, they make space travel look easy at this point. Clearly it isn't but they make the old NASA crafts look so antiquated.
The space shuttle still looks cool, no?
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turtle
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2020-06-05, 22:40

It does, but the instrument panel on it looks nothing like the Dragon Crew capsule controls do. I know it doesn't all need to be touchscreen and that tactile feedback is a good thing. The difference is so stark though.

vs


Heh, I just noticed the product placement Apple did too.

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PB PM
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2020-06-06, 11:22

One is designed by people who are used to building aircraft, the other design team likely came from Tesla, so the UI is very different. Also, 1980's tech vs. 2010's tech, no contest.
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kscherer
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2020-06-06, 18:32

Well, also to be fair is the control panel for the SLS/Boeing Orion crew module. In comparison to Crew Dragon, it looks old as hell. You can set the time gap aside and SpaceX is still looking very futuristic in comparison.



And, yeah, Apple is in orbit!

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drewprops
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2020-06-06, 23:27

Sooooo.... what do you suppose the redundancy is built into a touchscreen system like this? What happens if a screen goes down?


...
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PB PM
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2020-06-07, 19:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Well, also to be fair is the control panel for the SLS/Boeing Orion crew module. In comparison to Crew Dragon, it looks old as hell. You can set the time gap aside and SpaceX is still looking very futuristic in comparison.



And, yeah, Apple is in orbit!
Kind of the same scenario, if you take the time scale away in the Boeing case. Aircraft designers are used to building system this way, because plots, who are also astronauts, would be familiar with the layout in most cases. The touch screen system is nice to look at, but could be functionally compromised, and appears to lack redundancy as drewdrops pointed out. I suspect the SpaceX system has ugly backup panels with physical dials and LED lights hidden out of sight of the camera, but we cannot see that so there is no way to know. Lets put it this way, I doubt the iPad strapped in there is the backup.

For all it's future tech, the crew on SpaceX is still using a paper checklist, so 500 B.C.E.
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PKIDelirium
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2020-06-08, 07:47

Boeing is building the SLS rocket but the Orion spacecraft is Lockheed Martin.
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Bryson
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2020-06-08, 10:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Sooooo.... what do you suppose the redundancy is built into a touchscreen system like this? What happens if a screen goes down?


...
I don't know if this is the case, but the obvious solution is to allow any of the touchscreens access to any of the required layouts, surely? Then if you lose a screen, yes, you lose the ability to display stuff side by side, but you still have access to all the controls, even if you have to "page" more often to get to them.
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kscherer
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2020-06-08, 11:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKIDelirium View Post
Boeing is building the SLS rocket but the Orion spacecraft is Lockheed Martin.
Thank you for that correction. I was watching a documentary the other day and Boeing was the only contractor mentioned, so I assumed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
I don't know if this is the case, but the obvious solution is to allow any of the touchscreens access to any of the required layouts, surely? Then if you lose a screen, yes, you lose the ability to display stuff side by side, but you still have access to all the controls, even if you have to "page" more often to get to them.
Leading up to the launch, there was a presentation that demonstrated this very thing.

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Last edited by kscherer : 2020-06-08 at 11:18.
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PKIDelirium
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2020-06-08, 14:20

Basically, the Orion/SLS system is your typical hodgepodge of contractors just like the Saturn V and Shuttle were:

SLS core stage: Boeing, based on the Shuttle External Tank and fitted with four RS-25 (shuttle) engines. They have enough shuttle engines left for 3-4 flights and they've been modified and upgraded, and a contract is out for 18 new ones to be manufactured. Second core stage is currently being built.

Boosters: Northrup Grumman (from their acquisition of Orbital ATK), based on Shuttle boosters but extended by one additional segment and non-recoverable. They have enough booster casings left for 8 flights, after which NG will replace them with composite-casing boosters that are being developed for their Omega commercial rocket.

Upper stage: First three flights will use a modified version of the United Launch Alliance Delta IV cryogenic upper stage. Boeing is developing the more powerful Exploration Upper Stage intended to start flying with Artemis 4.

Orion: Lockheed Martin, using a service module provided by the European Space Agency and built by Airbus.

The first interim upper stage from ULA is ready, the first Orion capsule and service module are essentially ready, boosters are shipping to Florida soon. The first core stage is on the B-2 test stand at Stennis for green run testing that they just recently resumed work on after virus shutdowns and is the main hold up at the moment, causing the first flight to slip to 2021 instead of this year.

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kscherer
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2020-06-08, 14:50

And then there is SpaceX, who are building their Starship thing willy-nilly, chucking things at he wall to see what sticks, and then going full-bore on the sticky stuff.

And they just stuck two guys on the ISS atop a rocket and recovered their booster intact at a time when NASA is paying the Russians for a ride.

I say "go with the sticky stuff" and am betting that SpaceX gets to the moon before SLS does.

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PKIDelirium
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2020-06-08, 15:11

NASA will now be down to two Soyuz seats per year instead of at least four, since after SpaceX DM-2 is complete, it'll be considered certified for operations and Crew-1 with four people will launch on the next Dragon in August.

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kscherer
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2020-06-08, 15:24

As well as SpaceX has been doing, I just hope they don't cut some corner with the, "meh, we don't need that anymore" attitude. I really want to see them succeed to the point where they can reliably send folks up on a monthly basis.

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Bryson
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2020-06-08, 16:18

Also, further to the point about complexity: the Shuttle was an aircraft that you could actually fly. ("Flying Brick" comparisons aside... ) The Dragon is a capsule with significantly limited maneuvering capability.
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kscherer
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2020-06-08, 17:07

The shuttle was also conceived in the late 1960's/early 1970's. The last one was built while glass cockpits were still being dreamed up.

And we also need to take Tesla into consideration. Musk's companies are doing away with old-timey thinking in everything that they do. Tesla removes the standard switching bits and replaces them all with a giant touch screen. In the same way, Crew Dragon replaces a gazillion nobs and dials with—you guessed it—a giant touch screen (actually, 3 of them).

Simplicity is better, but simplicity comes at the cost of more behind-the-panel complexity. The software just to run those touchscreens is orders of magnitude more complex than the entirety of software that went to the moon aboard Apollo.

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!Marc!
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2020-06-16, 02:44

Hi,

I didnt want to waste space by creating a new thread....This is bizarre, but related

Back in the day when Applenova and Appleinsider were all friends, I posted as MarcUK™ , so some old timers may know of me from previous decades....

I recently became aware of a major astrophysical scientific theory that is becoming mainstream, by one of the worlds most respected living scientists, that was first published in 2010. However....

I also know that I published this idea, from my own completely original work / speculation, as a topic for discussion, in the AI Outsider/PO forums in about 2005, and would like to ressurrect these posts for posterity and historical record, but that is not so easy.

As I know that AN and AI had common members/owners and moderators, and the past is the past, is there anyone here who has knowledge of/access to, the archives of AI going back to the early days, and how we might go about doing a search on them?

Obviously I have approached AI, but as this is such a long shot to retrieve these posts, I need to come at this from every possible angle, or history will not be truthfully recorded.

Last edited by !Marc! : 2020-06-16 at 02:56.
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kscherer
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2020-06-16, 10:50

I'm assuming you've used their search tool? I just did a quick search at AI using "MarcUK" and found a number of posts by you over there going back to 2002-ish. Since I have no idea what you're on about I don't know what I'm looking for, but there is a thread titled "Anyone studying Quantum Mechanics/Physics????" that looks to be brain-jolting to me.

There were a thousand results, but I'm sure you could sort through them.

For what it's worth, I also used to post at AI (as kscherer—surprise!) but I like this crowd better.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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!Marc!
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2020-06-16, 12:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I'm assuming you've used their search tool? I just did a quick search at AI using "MarcUK" and found a number of posts by you over there going back to 2002-ish. Since I have no idea what you're on about I don't know what I'm looking for, but there is a thread titled "Anyone studying Quantum Mechanics/Physics????" that looks to be brain-jolting to me.

There were a thousand results, but I'm sure you could sort through them.

For what it's worth, I also used to post at AI (as kscherer—surprise!) but I like this crowd better.
HOLY SHIT MAN, YOU FOUND IT!!!! I cant tell you how long ive been trying to find it, I was even looking on the wayback machine for it!

So here it is - CCC Theory, as popularized by Roger Penrose in his book from 2010

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confor...clic_cosmology

A quick Overview for the uninitiated I saw last night on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC2JOQ7z5L0

as described my MarcUK on March 17, 2004

preamble.....

Here's my nobel prize winning theory---(C)MarcUK 2004

consider, that at the universe ages, it is currently expected that it will expand forever, the big freeze, as opposed to the big crunch. When all the matter has decayed back into pure radiation - How big will the universe be?



As there is only pure radiation, the only valid point of reference will be at the photon level. This means that all distances are 0. All time is 0. This means that every single energy in the universe will decay into the same position at the same time, regardless of how big that might seem to us earthlings at the moment. Eureka - big bang no2. it doesn't matter if the universe is open or closed, it will regenerate.



NO applause necessary.

https://forums.appleinsider.com/disc...Comment_577902


HOLY SHIT! Where do I go from here???
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kscherer
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2020-06-16, 12:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by !Marc! View Post
HOLY SHIT MAN, YOU FOUND IT!!!!
Glad to be of help, and I have nothing further to input.

P.S. I'm still trying to figure out girls, which I'm convinced is a far more complicated endeavor than quantum mechanics.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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!Marc!
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2020-06-16, 12:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Glad to be of help, and I have nothing further to input.

P.S. I'm still trying to figure out girls, which I'm convinced is a far more complicated endeavor than quantum mechanics.
Me too! QM is the lesser of two evils
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drewprops
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2020-06-16, 17:26

Well seeing as how we are all your biggest pals of ever, going way way way back in time, I figure we are going to have to get jackets or something.

Chicks dig jackets.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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!Marc!
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2020-06-17, 03:16

Haha, I guess everyone is my friend now.....maybe we should design some jackets though!

I have actually found Roger Penrose's foundation so I can attempt to contact him indirectly. However it is going to be staffed by volunteers, who I guess clearly wont have the slightest interest in showing him that I outlined CCC theory 6 years before he published it. I am considering my options at the moment.

However, it is good enough that my idea was taken by one of the worlds greatest mathmaticians and persued and developed into a mainstream theory, so I have all the personal validation I need, and I have no intention of trying to dethrone him, but it would be nice if I got a small footnote in history for originating the idea that developed into CCC, because however you look at it, I did put the idea into the public domain in 2004.

Whether Sir Roger or one of his researchers saw this directly, or indirectly, we will never know, and Im quite sure there will be no voluntarily admission, so it will only be a shitty long drawn out fight, which I am bound to lose anyway, but the truth is the truth, and the whole world can see that in 2004 I put this in the public domain.

While not quite on the same magnitude, imagine if a book was discovered that had the formula E=mc2, that was published 6 years before Einstein claimed it.

What would you do?
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kscherer
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2020-06-30, 15:57

Another successful SpaceX launch. How many of these things can these guys do in a month?
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turtle
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2020-07-01, 09:41

They really have gotten good at this. Have they missed a reclaim of a booster lately? I remember them working through that and they seem to have gotten really good at catching them now.

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PKIDelirium
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2020-07-01, 10:02

They lost a couple flown-several-times-already boosters on Starlink missions earlier in the year, but Starlink was a trajectory they weren't fully used to, and other factors played into both. One of them lost the center engine from some alcohol used in the between-flight cleaning process had been left in part of the system, and without the center engine you can't steer correctly or fire the landing burn. It burned up during entry. The other one had rough seas in the landing area and self-aborted to hit the ocean so the droneship wouldn't be damaged.

By default, the grid fins keep them on a trajectory to deliberately miss the droneship or ground pad until the landing burn starts, so if there's a problem, they just hit the ocean. When the landing burn starts (or fails to start for whatever reason), that's when the booster's guidance computer commits to either correct that and target the pad/ship, or abort into the drink.

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kscherer
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2020-07-01, 10:39

Brilliant. The thinking that has gone into the entire system is just fantastic to watch/learn.
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