Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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On their start page: http://www.apple.com/startpage/.
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I mean, let's be clear. This is Steve Jobs using Apple's money to push his own political agenda. This act won't benefit Apple as a company in any way. That said, I won't be voting for Proposition 8 (nor will I be voting against it). I think California has much more pressing issues. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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ಠ_ರೃ
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
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I agree with their stance but I also think it's a little weird for a big company like Apple to do something like this.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
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Steve Jobs can't push any agenda with Apple's money. Neither does the board of directors think this won't help Apple; in fact, they believe it will help to the tune of at least $100,000. If the directors made a poor judgement the shareholders can turf them off the board.
… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams. |
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Ice Arrow Sniper
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Kinda shocked Apple would make a contribution like that, but I do agree with their stance.
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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To the OP, how do we know this is just Steve's agenda? If same-sex benefits were enacted before Steve came back as the iCEO then would this not be a general company stance as opposed to a Steve stance?
Also, if the ban went through, isn't it at least possible that Apple's benefits costs could increase dramatically if they were forced to self-insure same sex couple's partners as the insurance companies could easily use this ban as an out to providing partner benefits? |
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Less than Stellar Member
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Google did the same thing.
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Yeah, this isn't a personal, "just Steve" issue...he couldn't have swiped $100,000 from the company to give to something that only he supports or believes in (he's got his own money, I'm sure, for things like that). The board or whatever would all have to be on...uh, board for a company-wide, six-figure donation to a particular cause or program.
It's a progressive (is that the proper, non-push-button word we use? ) outfit, as is, and it's no shock or surprise to anyone, is it? Doesn't bother me, I don't care. I'd draw the line at maybe a few other things and get upset (but they're the kinds of things no prominent company is ever going to throw in with, so I think I'm pretty safe). But social matters like this, or who they support for President, etc. I don't give a damn. It doesn't affect me, one way or the other. Especially when you know their DNA, background and history. And yes, just from a business perspective alone, as the bassman points out, it's smart and no surprise. There could be just as many other public, highly-thought-of companies giving money and support to the opposite view in California (okay, there aren't; but we need to pretend there is, for a few seconds, for my point to stand or make any sense ). But seriously, if this bothered enough people - and it won't - there are procedures and remedies in place for anyone wanting to make their feelings and thoughts known on the matter. Nobody throws in with a company like Apple expecting them to cut checks to the NRA or the Heritage Foundation, right? And then getting all pissy-acting when you find out they don't? I'd be stunned if Apple didn't make some sort of public move on this issue, or stayed silent/neutral. It's the state where they live and work, and it affects them. |
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Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
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I fully agree with Apple and Google. In fact I see this as not as much them making a "yes statement" as them speaking up against discrimination. Why the hell is it anybody's business who other people marry?
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Travels via TARDIS
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earthsea
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They're also, I believe, speaking on behalf of most/all their employees. Not just Steve or the board. I'm very glad to see this finally go out publicly. The range of people I've met at work is incredible, and from a diverse employment standpoint, this makes sense. It takes all kinds to make a company like Apple run.
(Now, please forget about the dots I just connected. ) Apparently I call the cops when I see people litter. |
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Less than Stellar Member
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It's not anyone's business, but it's a wedge issue to drive people to the polls. Happens every 4 years.
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Not so. Like our friends at Google, Apple too certainly has political motivations behind this, but also very practical ones. A company that publicly speaks out for equal gay rights is far more attractive to potential gay employees. Why needlessly scare away potentially bright talent?
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Antimatter Man
Join Date: May 2004
Location: that interweb thing
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Dude, not just the rainbow logo... Apple made Flowered computers.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Of course, when I phrase it like that, it does make it seem like this donation is good for Apple--what's good for Steve is good for Apple. As to the medical benefits thing... I see your point, but would Apple be "forced" to insure the partners of employees in same-sex couples if Prop. 8 passes? I could see Apple wanting to insure them, but I don't think they'd be forced to. They could simply say, "Sorry guys. The voters passed Prop. 8, which means that our insurance providers no longer cover your partners." Not that they would--clearly, Apple supports homosexual rights--but they could. I think Apple would do just as well when it comes to recruiting potential gay employees if they stayed neutral. As long as a company isn't anti-gay, I don't think gays will have any problem working for it. |
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Travels via TARDIS
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earthsea
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Apparently I call the cops when I see people litter. |
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OK Mr. Sunshine!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
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It's not about "not having any problem". It's about being able to identify with a company. Both Apple and Google strongly benefit from the idea that employees love to work there.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Verde Amarela
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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as an aside...could one of you righties/lefties give me an indication of what "center" is?
Totally curious...mind you, for mathematical reasons. In the meantime, watch my tight ass dance: Erm. Yeah. So it goes. Last edited by 709 : 2008-10-24 at 18:13. |
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Formerly “theelmerguy”
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Irvine, California
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesti..._in_California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califor...ition_8_(2008) Last edited by remlemasi : 2008-10-25 at 01:52. Reason: Fixed second hyperlink. |
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Travels via TARDIS
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earthsea
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Personally, I'm a fan of removing "marriage" from all things government, thus clarifying the distinction between church and state. However, Prop 8 goes entirely against this and cements the definition of a word in the California Constitution. Constitutions are to outline structure and procedure, not define words. So on those grounds alone, I oppose Prop 8. Apparently I call the cops when I see people litter. |
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Only when the federal government stops distinguishing between marriage and domestic partnerships / civil unions altogether will this problem be smoothly resolved. |
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OK Mr. Sunshine!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
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Nooo!!! Don't legalize the gay marriage!!! Our country has turned into a HELLHOLE since we did it!!! Now I'm gay married to a guy because Paul Martin forced me to do it!!! I'm not sexually attracted to mens!1! I want my wife back!!!
Do not be oppressed by the forces of ignorance and delusion! But rise up now with resolve and courage! Entranced by ignorance, from beginningless time until now, You have had more than enough time to sleep. So do not slumber any longer, but strive after virtue with body, speech, and mind! |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Well, I think civil unions shouldn't exist in law either, but that is much tougher change than simply separating marriage the religious construct and civil union the legal construct. It would be reasonable to do the latter first. |
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Veteran Member
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I visited California and caught the Gay. Bad aids. Woe is me.
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Formerly “theelmerguy”
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Irvine, California
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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My gut reaction? Apple donated the money (and then put it on their front page, for all to see) for the same reason they talk about how environmental all their products are, and for the same reason IKEA goes out of their way to include same-sex couples in their catalogs and advertising, and the same reason Volvo creates edgy ads just for the GBLT magazines. It's an image thing.
I'm still glad they did it, mind. But for those of you who are wondering why it was done with Apple's (and not Jobs's) money, well, there you go. It's essentially a big "Apple cares!" to the GBLT community. For people who disagree with it: their logo is a rainbow fruit. Come on. *waits for inevitable American Family Association boycott* And yes, I did say GBLT. I know the traditional abbreviations are LGBT or GLBT. It's an old in-joke-turned-habit. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong Last edited by Robo : 2008-10-25 at 18:43. |
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Travels via TARDIS
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earthsea
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