[HoTT RoDeR]

Lets have a nice discussion about who you would like to see in office for the new term and why you feel that way.

[Akumulator]

Oh no..... a political discussion so soon?

[HoTT RoDeR]

I believe bush's administration made mistakes in the way they made discussions the media could twist. As the liberals and democrat's even said after bush won they were going to do everything to tear him down.

I believe he stands up for what he believes in. (more integrity that a guy like Clinton who says whatever the people want to hear)

We all know they had or have WMD (they were using gas on their people in the 80's) but we gave them 6 months to get them out of Iraq.

The economy is on the way up and as a former stock broker I can say Bush has help the economy.

We import a small percentage of oil from iraq that the whole war in Iraq is about oil is BS.

History proves that 4-6 months before a reelection the the current party always takes a major hit from all the BS propaganda going around and even more so nowadays with our communication technology.

[HoTT RoDeR]

LOL

Well I figured we could have a nice discussion or debate since we more of the intellectual crowd over from AI.com. Or so it seems...

[HoTT RoDeR]

Please explain why you are voting for Kerry in the pole. PLEASE!

[Akumulator]

I haven't clicked anything on the poll yet.

[NosferaDrew]

Bush is a clown. I've always maintained that McCain would've been a much better nominee/President - and I'm no Republican.

Gore wasn't ideal either, but at least we wouldn't be in Iraq, we wouldn't have pissed off the rest of the world in the way we invaded Iraq and we wouldn't have such a huge deficit.

I hate politics. Both sides manipulate events, stories, polls, etc. for their own self interests, but Bush has got to go.

[HoTT RoDeR]

True the war has made a big deficit but history also shows that in the long run it can better the economy. Please explain why you feel Bush is a "clown."

[NosferaDrew]

I feel he's a pretender. In over his head.
He doesn't give off that "Leader" vibe to me. He's demonstrated many times that he can't think on his feet and really doesn't have a command of the English language sufficient enough to get his thoughts across in a succinct manner.

He's hired some truly shady guys in his cabinet. Cheney? Rumsfeld? Those guys are scary.

Plus, he was not the best Governor by any measurement.
Texas was the worst polluting state and was next to last regarding education under his rule.
Jeb is a better Governor.
Bush was nominated and "won" the election largely because of his name recognition.

And I agree that history has shown that war can improve the economy, but the point is, we should have never invaded Iraq in the first place. We should not be there, but now that we are, obviously, we need to stabilize things until we can exit.

But if anyone thinks that "democracy" is going to take hold in Iraq, you're fooling yourselves. It was a mess before we got there, it's a mess now and it's only going to get worse.

[addabox]

Hi, my name is Addabox, I'm an AOholic.

(applause) "Hi, Addabox!"

"It's been two days since my last outburst. (eyes thread topic as sweat begins to bead on brow). I never knew my life could be so.....so......BUSH IS A MOTHERFUCKER! RIGHTWINGERS ARE DUMBSHITS! IRAQ IS A QUAGMIRE! I....I....I can't stop...."(collapses weeping onto folding chair).

[thegelding]

i don't like bush, nor do i believe he is honest and true like the republicans like to claim...i see no difference between him and clinton except clinton spoke better and believed in things i support..

bush doesn't support any issues i believe in, he was elected? with less votes than gore, he went in saying he would be a uniter and then refused to listen to anything democrats said...

right now our world is at war, with 4 more years we may not have a world

just my opinion though

g

as for kerry...seems like a good man, hard working, smart, hasn't ran from a war and has worked hard to get where he is even with the money he has....some never worked hard and lived off daddy's name

[Wrao]

Four more years...

[thuh Freak]

kerry, b/c i dont think a democrat will start a pre-emptive war.

[BRussell]

John Kerry, because he's hot, and I have thinly veiled latent homosexuality and since he's from Massachusetts, I still have hope that we can get married and I can be first gentleman of the country but first he's got to dump that bitch he's with now.

[Akumulator]

Originally Posted by BRussell but first he's got to dump that bitch he's with now.

But she makes that nice sauce.

[hyperb0le]

Neither. I think both the main candidates are terrible. It seems like anyone who would be a good president is smart enough to know that politics suck, and anyone crazy enough to actually run isn't fit to run the country. Ugh, stupid politics.

[HoTT RoDeR]

Originally Posted by NosferaDrew I feel he's a pretender. In over his head. He doesn't give off that "Leader" vibe to me. He's demonstrated many times that he can't think on his feet and really doesn't have a command of the English language sufficient enough to get his thoughts across in a succinct manner. He's hired some truly shady guys in his cabinet. Cheney? Rumsfeld? Those guys are scary. Plus, he was not the best Governor by any measurement. Texas was the worst polluting state and was next to last regarding education under his rule. Jeb is a better Governor. Bush was nominated and "won" the election largely because of his name recognition. And I agree that history has shown that war can improve the economy, but the point is, we should have never invaded Iraq in the first place. We should not be there, but now that we are, obviously, we need to stabilize things until we can exit. But if anyone thinks that "democracy" is going to take hold in Iraq, you're fooling yourselves. It was a mess before we got there, it's a mess now and it's only going to get worse.

I like how people judge the president's ability as our commander and chief by how he uses the english language. Einstein was dyslexic but arguably one of the most brilliant men of all time. Just because he can't speak as well as say Clinton has no barring on his ability of being a president. On the other hand would you rather have a slick talker like Clinton who was a genius with words when he talked to the people but they were nothing more than words.

One has to think about the situations where Bush "can't think on his feet" and remember that many of them he was irate with the events that have happened in his 4 year campaign. I mean come on just think about it.

Texas may have what appeared to be a terrible education system when Bush was governor but I can speak from family experiences they were run better than other states. He also implemented many good ideas that worked well but perhaps they didn't show on paper. You have to look at the culture or race of the general population in the state.

As for us being at war. Bush proclaims to be a "christian" and as the bible says, a great nation is to help other nations that are being persecuted and not to mention they were a threat to america simply because Sadam would not cooperate 100%. You don't need anymore reason than that after 9-11. Some people need to open their minds and realize the liberals and democrats with the media are doing everything they can to make Bush look bad. As the saying goes garbage in garbage out. Whether or not you listen or even believe what they say people are getting negative against Bush for the wrong reason's. On another note, Clinton proclaimed to be a christian but was for partial birth abortions even when the supreme court voted against it Clinton vetoed it. Any christian knows that the definition to christian is Christ like. Do you think Christ would like the process in a partial birth abortion? (if you don't know the process look it up, i have an 11 month old and can't even imagine the idea of it)

[autodata]

Originally Posted by HoTT RoDeR I like how people judge the president's [in]ability as our commander and chief by how he uses the english language.

The language thing is just for kicks. After all, he's not the one formulating the policies.

[alcimedes]

Some people need to open their minds and realize.....

realize that if you ask people for what are obviously going to be contrary opinions from yours, teeing off on them at the first opportunity doesn't really do anyone any good at all.

what was the point of your post?

[HoTT RoDeR]

Originally Posted by alcimedes realize that if you ask people for what are obviously going to be contrary opinions from yours, teeing off on them at the first opportunity doesn't really do anyone any good at all. what was the point of your post?

Sorry I didn't mean to come across in that way. I was just trying to say how many people, not meaning people here but people I know outside of AI, bash Bush based on many comments made by very liberal people or democrats that are going out of their way to tear Bush down. They said they would do anything in their power to get him out of office after the way he won the election. Many news networks are very biased on their point of views instead of just saying the facts and then let the people decided for them selves. Fox News is pretty much unbiased and leaves it up to the individual to decide. I guess what I was trying to say is many people are being lemmings from all the BS propaganda going around.

[addabox]

Oh dear.

[HoTT RoDeR]

Originally Posted by addabox Oh dear.

I'm just expressing how it seems to be for me and many people whom I know that follow many if not every ounce of the current events taking place.

Please say something addabox...

[autodata]

Where's the LOL smiley?

[torifile]

Hot rodder,

I'm not sure what you're hoping to get from this thread. Bush has either a) been grossly underinformed as president or b) been dishonest about what he knows. Neither is excusable from the president of the US.

You can claim media conspiracy all you want, but the fact remains Bush hasn't delivered on his promises. He was "born on third and thinks he got a triple." That's all there is to it.

[tonton]

Originally Posted by torifile Hot rodder, I'm not sure what you're hoping to get from this thread. Bush has either a) been grossly underinformed as president or b) been dishonest about what he knows. Neither is excusable from the president of the US. You can claim media conspiracy all you want, but the fact remains Bush hasn't delivered on his promises. He was "born on third and thinks he got a triple." That's all there is to it.

Hear! Hear!

[torifile]

Originally Posted by tonton Hear! Hear!

Glad to see you made it over here, tonton.

[NosferaDrew]

Originally Posted by HoTT RoDeR As for us being at war. Bush proclaims to be a "christian" and as the bible says, a great nation is to help other nations that are being persecuted and not to mention they were a threat to america simply because Sadam would not cooperate 100%. You don't need anymore reason than that after 9-11.

That's a load of shit!

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. They've gone on record admitting that.
For someone who "follow many if not every ounce of the current events taking place" it's laughable that you even typed that.

If he's so "christian" why doesn't he invade Rwanda and stop the genocide there? Or Haiti? Or Algeria? Or Liberia? etc.

We invaded a soverign country using false/erroneous information and the result is that Bush has tarnished the image of the United States for generations to come to many cultures all around the world.

History will show that Bush will be remembered as one of our worst Presidents.

[HoTT RoDeR]

I'm just trying to discuss other people's views and my own and thats it. What has Bush lied to us about or if he has been uninformed whose fault is that really? Please no one get me wrong I do feel his whole administration has made huge mistakes. Maybe not his own but definitely people he chose so either way.

[HoTT RoDeR]

Originally Posted by NosferaDrew That's a load of shit! Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. They've gone on record admitting that. For someone who "follow many if not every ounce of the current events taking place" it's laughable that you even typed that. If he's so "christian" why doesn't he invade Rwanda and stop the genocide there? Or Haiti? Or Algeria? Or Liberia? etc. We invaded a soverign country using false/erroneous information and the result is that Bush has tarnished the image of the United States for generations to come to many cultures all around the world. History will show that Bush will be remembered as one of our worst Presidents.

The fact is we KNOW Sadam had chemical weapons as they were used in the 80's so stands to reason that he had them now. Also having certain amounts of clearance I can assure you they have found more than we know and I can say that as a quote from a Danish soldier (friend of mine) who has been over there before we ever landed.

Who here would support going into Haiti, Liberia, etc. The reason we went to war was in the notion for what's best for the country but the sad part is we waited to long and the weapons were moved out.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by HoTT RoDeR I'm just trying to discuss other people's views and my own and thats it. What has Bush lied to us about or if he has been uninformed whose fault is that really? Please no one get me wrong I do feel his whole administration has made huge mistakes. Maybe not his own but definitely people he chose so either way.

What has he been misinformed about? Are you serious?

Where to begin....

1) The abuse pictures
2) The WMD "intelligence"
3) The Al-Qaeda threat prior to 9/11/2001
4) Job growth numbers

And those are just off the top of my head at 3am. As for "whose fault is that, really?" There used to be a time when the president took responsibility for things. You know Harry S. Truman and "the buck stops here." It's his fault, of course.

Why? Because rather than get up to speed on what's going on in the world, he'd rather take vacations on his ranch. That used to work when he was governor of Texas, but it doesn't work now. Rather than read the paper for the news, he skims it and gets briefs from his aides or his wife(!). From this Tuesday's Washington Post:

"I get the newspapers Ñ the New York Times, The Washington Times, The Washington Post and USA Today Ñ those are the four papers delivered," he said. "I can scan a front page, and if there is a particular story of interest, I'll skim it." The president prides himself on his ability to detect bias in ostensibly objective news stories. "My antennae are finely attuned," he said. "I can figure out what so-called 'news' pieces are going to be full of opinion, as opposed to news. So I'm keenly aware of what's in the papers, kind of the issue du jour. But I'm also aware of the facts." Those facts are extracted from news stories each day and presented to the president by a half-dozen aides, Mr. Card among them. "Since I'm the first one to see him in the morning, I usually give him a quick overview and get a little reaction from him," Mr. Card explained. "Frequently, I find that his reaction kind of reflects [first lady] Laura Bush's take." Indeed, the president often cites articles that Mrs. Bush flags for greater scrutiny, even when he has not personally slogged through those stories. Mrs. Bush routinely delves more deeply into the news pages than her husband, who prefers other sections. "He does not dwell on the newspaper, but he reads the sports page every day," Mr. Card said with a chuckle. 'A clear outlook' Mr. Bush thinks that immersing himself in voluminous, mostly liberal-leaning news coverage might cloud his thinking and even hinder his efforts to remain an optimistic leader. "I like to have a clear outlook," he said. "It can be a frustrating experience to pay attention to somebody's false opinion or somebody's characterization, which simply isn't true."

It's his fucking fault he's uninformed. He'd rather read the sports section than the New Yorker. That's not a good leader.