[EDS66]

For anyone who is interested in the new 12-inch (rev. C) Powerbook and how it compares to the rev B:

I was at the Tyson's apple store today with the purpose of comparing screen brightness/quality between my Powerbook 12-inch 1 Ghz and the new 1.33. The new displays are brighter, sport better contrast, and somehow the default colorsync profile has shifted, where the metal grey is actually metal and not bronze (as it is on mine). The whites are also truer. I am selling my 1 Ghz now and will buy the 1.33. By the way, the speed difference is also quite noticeable.

I find the screen quality of the new 12-inch PowerBook to now be much closer to the 15-inch powerbook, and for the price, it's the best deal Apple has going right now.

[DMBand0026]

That's why I snapped up one of those 1.33ghz 12" guys. I love it. The screen is awesome, I have yet to need to turn it up to full brightness, that would be too bright.
I've heard things about the quality of the 12" displays, but this one is awesome. No doubt in my mind that the kinks have been ironed out and this thing is right up there with the 15" and 17" in quality.
You can't beat the 12" in value right now, it's just too good.

[Escher]

Originally Posted by EDS66 I find the screen quality of the new 12-inch PowerBook to now be much closer to the 15-inch powerbook, and for the price, it's the best deal Apple has going right now.

Same here. After all the reports about sub-par LCD panels even in Rev.C of the 12-inch PowerBooks I was a bit worried. But it turns out there was much ado about nothing, at least in my case...

The Eagle Has Landed!

My brand new Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook G4/1.33Ghz/Combo with 5400rpm 80GB BTO drive arrived this afternoon, Tuesday, July 6, 2004.

First impressions: The screen is much brighter than the one on my 3 year-old 12" iBook G3/500. (Phew!) It does have the dreaded uneven bottom, i.e. it tips back and forth when I type because the 4 feet are not in the same plane. (I'll try to twist it in a few days.)

How do I turn off the fan? In other words, this machine is barely warmer than my iBook (definitely not burning hot) and the fan comes on even when I'm just browsing the web. I hate the fan noise!

I'm glad I got the 80GB 5400rpm BTO drive. It's a Toshiba MK8026GAX. It's large and fast(er). Unfortunately, it's also a good bit noisier than the 4200rpm 10GB drive in my 3 year-old iBook. Don't know if the move from the iBook's thick polycarbonate plastic casing to the PowerBook's thin Aluminum shell contributes to the noise.

The keyboard feels great. But it's much noisier than the softer iBook keyboard.

Right now, I'm chugging along on the built-in 256MB of RAM. But now that we can get 1GB sticks for less than $250 (Kingmax brand from NewEgg), there's no reason to limit myself to a 512MB upgrade.

In conclusion, my only real gripe is that the combination of (relatively) noisy HDD and often noisy fan, plus the noisy keyboard, mean that this is no longer a silent laptop like my iBook was. Otherwise, I love it! The Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook is the perfect notebook. It's small and light, and I got the 1+GB RAM, 1+Ghz clock, faster bus, and DVI-out I was longing for. No regrets whatsoever!

Escher, happy as a pig in shit

[Xaqtly]

I just got my new 1.33 12" PB about a week ago, but my fan only comes on when there's some serious and constant HD activity, or when I play a game of Warcraft 3 that lasts longer than 30 minutes or so. Mine is configured exactly like yours BTW - stock config with the BTO 5400 RPM 80 GB drive. I do have more RAM though, 768 MB - which conceivably might make a difference in drive activity which in turn might explain why your fan is more active than mine is.

I sold my first gen 12" PB G4 867 MHz to get this one, and the speed difference is pretty noticable. The screen is definitely better. Actually I was doing some video capturing on the new PB and the fan didn't come on until I had been capturing for about 45 minutes, which is pretty good I thought.

[Mac+]

Originally Posted by Escher Escher, happy as a pig in shit

Hey Escher that's great news. I know you've been eyeing off/hanging out for the 12"PB and now you finally have it. Congratulations - all the best for your bar exam too! (if you haven't already sat it.) Enjoy the PB!

[hobbit.2]

Escher, I've got almost the same specs as you: Rev C 12" PB with 5400rpm HD.

Oddly enough, though, mine seems to be different to yours.

My HD, same Toshiba MK8026GAX, is definitely quiet. Inaudible almost. You have to have a very, very quiet room (e.g. at 3am in the morning) to actually hear anything. And then it's a very faint whine.
My old TiBook's 40GB Hitatchi HD was a lot louder.

The story is the opposite with the LCD.

While my screen is very bright (I like that), so bright actually that it hurts my eyes if I have it on full brightness, its quality is nothing to write home about.
The viewing angle is very poor. If I look at the screen from the side at a 45 degree angle it literally turns black - even though it has a bright red desktop pattern. None if it is visible from the side.
The vertical viewing angle is just as poor. No matter at which angle I tilt the screen backwards, there is always at least one part of it noticeably darker, either the top or the bottom, or both.

Color representation is also rather poor. Pictures which are vibrant in color on the TiBook look pale and boring on my 12" PB.
At one point I tried using SuperCal to calibrate the screen (as has been suggested), played around for hours to create a better Color profile. The colors ended up looking better, but at the expense of brightness range. That seemed OK for webbrowsing but I was shocked when viewing DVDs: they looked terrible. All darker colors ended up black. DVDs simply looked horrible. So I went back to the default 'Color LCD' Color profile as that offered vastly better DVD playback.
In a nutshell: with SuperCal you have a choice between better colors or good DVD viewing (or constantly switching Color profile between normal work and DVD playback.)

In the end no matter how things improved with SuperCal, the display never ever looked even close to what my TiBook display looked.
Even though mine is bright, the fact remains that the 12" LCD is by far the worst display of any current PowerBook or Cinema display. IMHO it is not a pro product quality.

But as you said, the PowerBook is small, it is light, it is very portable and that's why I love it.
But I don't like the screen. I have to say that. If it weren't for my external monitor I would not have kept this PowerBook as its LCD is a huge step backwards from what I was used to from my TiBook. Though I'm sure it is an improvement over any iBook screen. But iBooks aren't pro products and therefore one shouldn't compare them with PowerBooks. That would be unfair.

[ast3r3x]

If you guys go outside on a bright day with your PowerBook, can you still see the screen fine? I normally don't need my screen the brightest inside, but as soon as I step outside, my screen becomes almost not viewable. I guess it's just hard to make a laptop screen that bright without killing battery life anymore?

[hobbit.2]

Originally Posted by ast3r3x If you guys go outside on a bright day with your PowerBook, can you still see the screen fine?

Define 'fine'.

It's sunny today and I just briefly went outside with my PB to check for you. With brightness cranked up all the way, it is actually very useable. You can even see shades of colors. For browsing the web or writing texts it is definitely fine.

I wouldn't do color sensitive work though, like web design, as colors are somewhat washed out. For any graphic design work it would not be fine.

Things get tougher if the sun shines directly onto the display. At that point things become very difficult to read. Though I could actually still read text - but barely. So with direct sunshine onto the LCD things are most definitely not fine. One would need a transflexive LCD display, like some PDAs or digicams have, but I'm not sure those exist in sizes yet suitable for a PowerBook.

[Escher]

Originally Posted by Xaqtly I do have more RAM though, 768 MB - which conceivably might make a difference in drive activity which in turn might explain why your fan is more active than mine is.

Xaqtly: You make an excellent point. In all my excitement about the new PowerBook, I forgot that I went back to a paltry and pageout/swap-inducing 256MB of RAM. I bet you're right and things will improve when I add a 1GB stick in the next few weeks. But the HDD in my PB is definitely a bit loud.

I sold my first gen 12" PB G4 867 MHz to get this one, and the speed difference is pretty noticable.

I definitely have to do more testing over the coming months. As you can imagine, the speed improvement from my iBook G3/500, which had a lousy 66Mhz bus, is staggering. I have a DSL connection, but due to the faster rendering, it feels like I'm browsing the Web over a T1. My iBook will go on the block as soon as I can transfer all my data and wipe the old HDD clean (alongside my Bondi iMac, whose sale was a precondition for my wife buying me the 12-incher).

This is my first non-store experience with Mac OS X 10.3 Panther. (I stuck with 10.2 Jaguar on the iBook to save money towards the PB.) I'm still apprehensive about the Brushed Metal look having contaminated the Finder. But all the other OS-level improvements make up for that. Expose is awesome! The PB's built-in support for spanning/mirroring/clamshell mode alone -- plus DVI-out! -- was worth the extra $300 over a comparable iBook's price, which would have required an incomplete and unsupported hack.

Escher

[Escher]

Originally Posted by Mac+ I know you've been eyeing off/hanging out for the 12"PB and now you finally have it. Congratulations - all the best for your bar exam too! (if you haven't already sat it.) Enjoy the PB!

Thanks, Mac+. I only have 3 weeks left until the bar exam, so I'll have to put off full-scale enjoyment of the PowerBook until August once I transfer my Eudora mail and essential documents. Hopefully, this new PB sitting next to piles of study books will be an additional motivator.

Escher

[Escher]

Originally Posted by hobbit.2 My HD, same Toshiba MK8026GAX, is definitely quiet. Inaudible almost. * * * But as you said, the PowerBook is small, it is light, it is very portable and that's why I love it. * * * But I don't like the screen.

hobbit.2: Interesting that your exact same HDD is quiet(er). It's really quite shocking how much various qualities can vary within Apple's specifications, even among the same supplier. On a positive note, once I stop using the old iBook, I'll probably get used to the new HDD's noise and won't give it a second thought.

As for the LCD, I agree that the 12-inch PB's screen is not pro-level. I'll have to calibrate it and test out various color profiles over the next couple of weeks for a more precise evaluation. But I guess that's why the 12-inch is so much more affordable than the 15-inch and 17-inch PowerBooks. Because the 12-inch is positioned between the iBook and the larger PowerBooks in terms of price, I think it's not unfair to compare its screen to the iBooks. BTW, I don't know why anybody would pick a 14" iBook over the 12-inch PowerBook since they are the same price (except bad eye-sight).

Escher

[Escher]

Originally Posted by ast3r3x If you guys go outside on a bright day with your PowerBook, can you still see the screen fine?

ast3r3x: Our friend hobbit.2 gave a good rundown of the issue. Basically, iBooks and PowerBooks are useable outdoors provided that you are not in direct sunlight. In other words, find a shady spot under a tree or an umbrella. In addition, you might want to turn on OS X's accessibility options. They allow you to invert the LCD (i.e. white on black instead of black on white). Though design to help people with vision problems, that accessibility option makes reading the LCD in bright sunlight quite a bit easier. Wearing polarized sunglasses has also helped in my experience. Finally, if PowerBook-use outdoors is mission-critical, you might want to get an LCD hood. Sure it looks geeky, but nothing beats shade for better viewing.

Escher

[Messiahtosh]

A hood!

[hobbit.2]

Escher, are you absolutely sure that it's the HD's noise you're hearing? The fan can spin at several speeds and I find that if it is on very low speed it still drowns out the noise of my HD. Maybe it is the fan at low speed that you're hearing and mistake it for the HD?
I have to say that the fan is quite noisy, even at low speeds, and on quite often. Especially now in the summer, with room temperatures higher than normal (I don't have any aircon), the fan is on a lot more than it used to in May when I go the 'Book. Not at full speed all the time, but definitely on.

As for the LCD, I understand that the 12" PB is a halfway model inbetween iBooks and 'classic' PowerBooks. Pity that Apple just assumes that this is what it is and positions its quality and price accordingly.
Apple somehow doesn't understand that some people, like myself, buy the 12" PB not because of price but because of size. I'd be happy to pay more if I could get a better screen!

I hope one day Apple will offer BTO screen choices. If I could get a 1280x1024 black onyx screen in my 12" PowerBook, I'd be happy to spend another $1000. After all you sit many hours a day in front of this screen, so your eyes deserve a good screen.

Because of size and weight the 15" PowerBook was not an option for me.
Too bad that Apple doesn't want any more of my money...

[HOM]

I'm just going pipe in and say that the screen is the reason that I'm thinking of upgrading my Rev A PowerBook. I've got a ColorSync profile set up to point where I'm happy with the color clarity, but the viewing angle is just terrible. If you're not looking directly at it from a slightly raised viewing angle the screen immediately washes out and can become entirely illegible.

I love everything else about the system, but the screen is just pissing me off. I've kept every Mac I've ever owned for for a minimum of 4 years, but I doubt this 12" is going to last me 18 months.

[hobbit.2]

Originally Posted by HOM I'm just going pipe in and say that the screen is the reason that I'm thinking of upgrading my Rev A PowerBook.

Hope you're not considering upgrading it to a Rev C 12" PowerBook, as I think it's still the same screen. I have a feeling that Apple changed the backlight, because it is definitely brighter than the old ones, but whatever they did, it is minimal compared to the quality difference between a 12" and a 15" PowerBook. Too bad that the 15" PBs are so huge and heavy compared to the 12". At least if you have to carry it around every day, it does make a difference...

[Escher]

Originally Posted by hobbit.2 Escher, are you absolutely sure that it's the HD's noise you're hearing? The fan can spin at several speeds and I find that if it is on very low speed it still drowns out the noise of my HD. Maybe it is the fan at low speed that you're hearing and mistake it for the HD?

That's a sharp observation, hobbit.2. I am by no means certain that the noise is the HDD spinning as opposed to the fan constantly blowing on low. I simply concluded that it was the HDD, because it has never gone off. I was using my experience with the iBook, where the noise was always the HDD, except for the one time when the fan came on just to prove to me that it was there. I just can't believe that the fan would have to be on all the time, but maybe the G4/1.33Ghz and the 64MB video card will do that...

I've turned on the "spin down" option in Energy Saver and will see whether the noise disappears when the HDD stops spinning.

I hope one day Apple will offer BTO screen choices. If I could get a 1280x1024 black onyx screen in my 12" PowerBook, I'd be happy to spend another $1000. * * * Too bad that Apple doesn't want any more of my money...

We came to the same point many times over on the old AppleInsider boards. It seems that the market for BTO screens in the 12-inch PowerBook is small and/or Apple has determined that it would not be worth the effort to offer more expensive choices. To me, the fact that I can hook up an external LCD via DVI more than compensations for the average internal LCD. Nonetheless, I would probably pay a few hundred dollars more for a better BTO panel as well.

Escher

[hobbit.2]

Escher, there's a simple test to find out whether it's the HD or the fan: Try this in a room with moderate temperature, not where it's 'summerly hot'. Once you hear the noise, put your PB to sleep. Wait for 2-3 minutes and then wake it up. The first few 15-30 seconds after wakeup, while the OS re-establishes links to the Internet, checks for mounted HDs, asks for your password etc. this is all done via the HD alone, with no fan spinning yet (at least on my PB). Only after 30-60 seconds the fan kicks in, and my PB becomes noisy again.
If the first few seconds after wakeup are exactly as noisy as before you put it to sleep then it would have to be the HD that's noisy.

Also what I found is that if you have a big external monitor connected, the PowerBook seems to get hotter (the GPU busier?). If you test this without an external minitor attached, things should run cooler.

As for BTO LCDs, few people know this: the WallStreet PowerBook, very first generation, had a 13.3" LCD panel from 3 different manufacturers. And each one had a different conector and different screen clutches.
Only if you wanted to get a replacement screen did you learn that the repair center cannot order it from Apple as there is a 1 in 3 chance it's the wrong one, with the wrong connectors. You always had to send WallStreet screen repairs to Apple directly as only they had all 3 in stock.

My point is, that Apple already had one PowerBook with basically 3 different LCDs, completely different as in parts not compatible with each other. They can do it, they have done it.

[fulmer]

Hello,

This is my first post to this site's BBS... so please be nice

I purchased the PB12" Rev C with the SuperDrive option and the upgraded HD (80GB 5400RPM). I used to have an iBook G3 800MHz and I thought the screen was MUCH brigher on that. During the daytime, I have to turn the brightness all the way up on the new PB, but I could easily use the iBook during the day with the brightness turned almost all the way down (about 1/4 up). I was a little dissapointed with that screen brightness of my new PB. On the other hand, other than that I really didn't notice any difference between them.

I've also got a PM G5 dual 2.0GHz with a 20" Cinema display... that display blows all other displays away! I am so amazed with that screen! It's the best screen I've ever used!

[Escher]

Originally Posted by hobbit.2 If the first few seconds after wakeup are exactly as noisy as before you put it to sleep then it would have to be the HD that's noisy.

hobbit.2: My place has central A/C so a high temperature environment should not be a problem. I ran through your suggested test without the external monitor (makes sense that taxing the graphics chip with dual monitors would generate more heat) and the 'Book is noisy from the second it wakes up. I really think it's the HDD. Maybe I'll try setting it on a block of ice and see what happens.

I didn't know about the 3 OEM manufacturers of Wallstreet LCD panels with 3 different hookups. I did have a BTO Wallstreet with the less expensive 12" passive matrix screen (but with the faster G3/250 with 1MB cache). So there was obviously a choice between the smaller passive matrix and the slightly larger (and more expensive) active matrix screen.

Drat, the fan just came on again!

Originally Posted by fulmer I purchased the PB12" Rev C with the SuperDrive option and the upgraded HD (80GB 5400RPM). * * * During the daytime, I have to turn the brightness all the way up on the new PB, but I could easily use the iBook during the day with the brightness turned almost all the way down (about 1/4 up).

fulmer: Welcome to AppleNova. Is your 5400rpm HDD quiet at least? Some empirical evidence seems to show that people get either a bright LCD or a quiet HDD in their 12-inch PowerBooks, but not both. (E.g. I have a bright LCD, but my 5400rpm HDD is noisy.)

Escher

[hobbit.2]

Escher, hmmmm, it really seems to be your HD then. Or a fault with the temperature sensor indicating your PB is too hot, jump-starting the fan every time. Though it's probably more likely the former.

The strange thing is that the 5400rpm Toshiba drive has liquid bearings, which seriously dampens noise levels. I'm surprised to hear that this drive can be noisy at all.
Drives can become noisy if exposed to shock, like a drop. How was the box your PowerBook came in? Did it show any signs of being dropped at one point?
Perhaps the HD is faulty and you should have it checked/replaced?

I know that Apple generally does not replace working drives just because they are noisy - unless they are very noisy.
My WallStreet had a very noisy 8GB IBM drive. Very, very noisy. Unbearably noisy actually, to a point where I would get headaches working on my WallStreet for more than an hour.
So I brought it to an Apple repair center. Initially they said, no way, Apple would not replace a working drive. But then they heard my drive and admitted it was noisy and agreed to send it in for repair. (In those days 8GB were so brand new that no one had spare parts and they had to send it in.) It took Apple 3 months (!) to repair that drive, which was a shame , but the part was so highly constraint that there were no spare parts. Apple was literally selling every 8GB drive they had.
But the point is that Apple did replace my 8GB drive on warranty just because of noise levels.

Although I ended up waiting for a terribly long time, and in the meantime the WallSteets were overheating, stopped production and were redesigned, but in the end my new 8GB drive was much, much quieter and I was glad that I had it swapped.

[EDS66]

Originally Posted by fulmer Hello, This is my first post to this site's BBS... so please be nice I purchased the PB12" Rev C with the SuperDrive option and the upgraded HD (80GB 5400RPM). I used to have an iBook G3 800MHz and I thought the screen was MUCH brigher on that. During the daytime, I have to turn the brightness all the way up on the new PB, but I could easily use the iBook during the day with the brightness turned almost all the way down (about 1/4 up). I was a little dissapointed with that screen brightness of my new PB. On the other hand, other than that I really didn't notice any difference between them. I've also got a PM G5 dual 2.0GHz with a 20" Cinema display... that display blows all other displays away! I am so amazed with that screen! It's the best screen I've ever used!

I agree with you on the quality of the Apple 20-inch Cinema Display. It has the best picture, color verisimilitude, white point; you name it. It's a little slow when it comes to pixel response, but I can live with that.

I really, really hope that Apple's new 20-inch panel (and hopefully the 23-inch one -- the current 23-inch monitor is nowhere near the quality of the 20-inch one) will be as good or better.

[fulmer]

Originally Posted by Escher fulmer: Welcome to AppleNova. Is your 5400rpm HDD quiet at least? Some empirical evidence seems to show that people get either a bright LCD or a quiet HDD in their 12-inch PowerBooks, but not both. (E.g. I have a bright LCD, but my 5400rpm HDD is noisy.) Escher

Hello Escher,
I live in Japan, and it's FREAKING hot right now (35C + about 80% humidity), so the fan on my PB is always running. I really don't notice the HD noise too much because of the fan. I'll try the PB in an airconditioned room today and let ya know. My dual G5 fans have been running faster than normal lately also. They are running about 1/2 speed now, so they're pretty noisy. I just put on some headphones, crank up the music and drownd out the noise

[fulmer]

Well, I checked out the PB during my lunch at work. It's pretty silent. I can barly hear the HD at all... I guess I've got a quiet HD and a dim display... I think I'd rather have it the other way