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Lets go ride bikes!
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-08-17, 01:41

Next steps I think will be figuring out you know, how to ride a bike. Obviously I can get the thing moving fine, took it for a 4 mile round-the-block earlier with no difficulties, but in terms of figuring out the nuance and how to be efficient and knowing when to be faster or slower and how to adjust my posture and whatever else...

One Q, the bike came with those little plastic foot holder dealies on the pedals, do those really do anything of value other than kind of annoy me when I'm at slow speeds and take my foot out? Will it make much of a difference to remove them?

And I guess, being that this is an Apple forum(sort of) what's the scoop on iPhone mounts for a bike like this? worth it? I'd like to be able to use my iPhone for telemetry since this is all new to me, I think it'd be fun to keep data from the beginning.
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tomoe
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
 
2013-08-17, 02:21

Just take them off. There's no benefit in them other than the annoyance you already pointed out.
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Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-08-18, 08:32

I've read some good reviews of the Topeka Ride Case, but haven't used it myself. For whatever reason, in my area I don't see many people with iPhones mounted to their bars. I usually just use a ridr tracking app, and keep the iPhone in my seat bag.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-08-18, 15:11

Yeah a bag is probably sufficient for me as well, I have a good trail GPS app that is doing the job as far as recording where I've gone, can you think of any specific advantages a dedicated cycling app might have? I can't really, seems like you only need gps, speedo, elevation and time really which just about any competent gps app can do.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-08-24, 17:55

So I've been getting better at riding, basically doubling the distance I can comfortably ride as well as going about 4mph faster on average, but lately I have noticed a bit of a pain in one of my knees that isn't exactly worrying in that it seems to go away on its own after warming up but it is making me wonder if it might be related to the bike's setup?

Is that possible that having the seat too low or whatever might cause pain/stress on the knee while pedaling?

The surprising thing is that it's my left knee that's been hurting a bit when historically it's always been my right knee that has issues(if I ever have issues with a knee that is). It's not particularly worrying, it comes and goes, it isn't debilitating and doesn't appear to be inflammation, but being such a novice with cycling I guess I don't really know the mechanics of discomfort on a bike and what sorts of things can attribute to it technique wise. Perhaps it has something to do with the setup of my bike, perhaps it has something to do with my pedaling technique or balance or the shoes I'm wearing or my posture or whatever, ya know?

Any more experienced cyclists have a thought on this? I don't really have any history with knee pains or discomforts other than occasionally my right knee will feel a bit 'tight', I've never had any knee injuries or anything of that nature.
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2013-08-25, 02:29

Every part of your leg, even the balls of your feet are going to feel sore from riding. Extra knee and hip/butt strain is usually the result of your saddle position being too high. You really don't want your knees to lock and your hips to rock while you pedal.

Technique is certainly a possibility, make sure you aren't just mashing on the pedal downward, but in all directions. While one leg is pushing down, the other should be pulling up. You should also be using your muscles back to front.

How far back the saddle is shouldn't impact your knees much, but it will affect which muscles do most of the work. The further back the saddle, the more work your quads will have to do. Pushing your saddle forward helps means more work for your hamstrings.
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adamb
Formerly “adambrennan”
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
 
2013-08-25, 11:14

A much more experienced cyclist told me when I was having a bit of knee pain that if the pain is in the front of your knee your seat is too low, and if in the back of your knee its too high. I knocked mine down a couple of mm and haven't had the pain since (also I think it's got a lot to do with my pedal-stroke when climbing in the saddle as I tend to have my heel a lot lower than I probably should have which was leading to over-extension and pain in the back of my knee).

I'm no expert but the plastic footholders you mentioned previously would help even out your pedal-stroke as Eugene mentioned as it makes use of pulling up, not only to reduce the amount of weight your opposite leg is pushing against, but by helping turn the pedals. Clipless pedals are even better but in my experience can lead to other types of knee pain if not setup correctly.

Bit of a tangent there! I'd start with seat height and see how that helps
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tomoe
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
 
2013-08-25, 12:33

Whatever you do, make small, incremental adjustments that you try out for at least a few days before making another change. Moving a bunch of stuff around all at once almost always does more harm than good.

Seen a man standin' over a dead dog lyin' by the highway in a ditch
He's lookin' down kinda puzzled pokin' that dog with a stick
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-08-25, 14:06

Moved the seat up a bit and went for a short ride, I think it made a positive difference but there was still a bit of discomfort going on in that knee. I noticed that if I stood up and pedaled then everything was fine and as with before, after about 5 minutes the knee is fine regardless, just seems to mostly be in the warming up stage. So it is perhaps a setup/technique issue but also I could perhaps stand to stretch that leg a bit before riding I guess.

I did remove the plastic footholders, so maybe I should put those back, or at least put one of them back, or invest in clips/shoes
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addabox
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2013-08-26, 15:17

Knee pain isn't always only going to be a matter of frame mechanics or technique-- a lot of people have patella tracking issues that induce some discomfort just when you put a certain kind of stress on the joint.

Happily, strengthening the muscles and tendons holding things in place is the best thing you can do to improve knee function, and bike riding is great for that.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-08-26, 21:48

Went for a 12 mile, in two parts, ride today and only for a little bit during the second part did I have any knee discomfort, which leads me to suspect it is something that yeah, will go away all together as my body gets used to this motion and strengthens what needs to be strengthened. I've always had pretty strong/healthy knees(from squats and such) but more in a weight lifting context, I am fast learning how much different cycling is from other activities I've trained (basketball and weight lifting being the two big ones). I think overall I am overpowering everything when it comes to pedaling and finding a rhythm. I've been reading some more online resources and getting the impression that keeping a consistent 'cadence' is usually a much better approach than oscillating different rates of pushing. Sure enough, I put some of that to use on an uphill stretch, trying to keep my cadence fairly consistent from the flat and into the incline, and I felt like it was a lot easier to make it up the hill than previous hill climbs where I've fast twitched my way for a few hundred yards and then completely run out of energy.

One other question about gears, I understand the basics of gearing but when it comes to things like, the bike making noise(rattling and such) vs. running more or less completely silently what's the story there? Should I be treating noise a bit like revs in a car?
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2013-08-27, 05:00

It's probably your chain wanting to jump/slip to the next gear because the shifter cables need a tension adjustment. There should be knurled knobs where your shifters meet the cable. Give them a couple of turns until the noise goes away. Sometimes there will be two extremes that just won't be happy. If I make my smallest cog happiest, then the biggest one usually ends up a bit noisier.

If you run really weird gearing like smallest chainring + smallest cog, your chain could potentially rub at the rear derailleur.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-08-27, 16:02

Given that it is a brand new bike is there a 'wear in' period that I should be aware of? The shop said something about "bring it back in about a month so we can make some adjustments after it wears in" but I didn't really understand the jargon at the time. In terms of real-world riding around the block in the meantime, will it take some time before the bike really 'settles' into how it will ride?
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gsxrboy
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2013-08-27, 19:45

The cables will stretch from new and that will have an affect on shifting performance. Keep going for rides (that's the most important bit) and as the shop said, go back for a tune up when you can get it in and it will be good after that (until the next shop or self service you do).

Or, get electronic shifting
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AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2013-08-28, 02:53

The gears and the breaks will need tuning. Make sure to get in some heavy breaking before you take it for service. Oh, congrats and have fun!
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-09-01, 20:14

I tried some spinning the other day. It's a bit poncey the brits might say. But I've got to do something to cut this gut. I think I might be the most in shape fat person I know. It's nuts. I can run 5-10K pretty easily now, and lift some intense weights, but no one would ever mistake me for an athlete. I do like to eat...

.........................................
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-09-02, 14:46

Well there is something to that. I've known plenty of 'fat' people who are quite good at running long distances. Endurance sports, for the most part, are not the best way towards dramatically reshaping your body composition, I mean, you'll get some progress that way, but think about it, endurance training practically by definition, primarily functions to get the body you currently have better at doing a thing. Which is not to say you're likely to see a lot of 'fat' ultra-marathoners, but there are plenty of fat marathoners just the same.

that's one of the things that has drawn me to cycling over running which I've always kind of hated as well, which is that cycling has an extra layer of resistance training cooked into it, like swimming does, seems to me a better complement to lifting weights.

But yeah, as we all know, at the end of the day, diet is pretty much the biggest factor in body composition anyway, most people over-train in some way or another while doing nothing to adjust their diet and stay more or less in the same spot indefinitely save for trickling changes in personal records.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-09-02, 16:50

Well, I'm not in immanent danger of being so huge I can't fit in a regular airline seat, but I definitely pudge out if I take too much time away from the gym or eat a little too carelessly. I think because I played soccer for a long time (and swam quasi competitively in HS), I had a good metabolism until my early twenties, but got lazier and dumber through to my early thirties. I figure I have about a decade, maybe two, to make a real difference. Certainly after 50, any gains will only come with serious pain. The time to fix things is now, so for about three years I've been hitting the gym, with two significant interruptions, one from a pretty serious injury, one from work. I've trained only for power, and usually by myself, so mostly on machines. I'm through the full weight stack on almost every piece of equipment. These are push and pull weights of between 200-350lbs, but not the same things as free weights at all. The biggest thing is that I feel like it's made my muscles dense, but really slow. Certainly haven't changed me into a beach body, or really bulked me up either, which is just as well, I'm not keen to look like I stepped out of the WWE. I just started switching over parts of my workout to freeweights and I'm much weaker with those, single dumbells in the 20-50lbs range depending on excercise, form , reps etc... All the smaller stabilizing muscles are weaker and need lots of work, especially around the knees, hips, and shoulders. Can run 10K in about an hour, which is pretty good, but I know there isn't a second 10K in there, and needs at least a day of recovery time afterwards. I'd love to be able to say I ran a marathon, but I'd have to be at least 60 lbs lighter to have a chance at half that.

I still feel too heavy for a bike, even spinning on the stationary hurts my behind after some time.

.........................................
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2013-09-03, 02:14

Padded bike shorts. You want padding over the pubic bone because that's pretty much the only part of your ass that's supposed to be touching the saddle.

Also fat people need more muscle to carry it all and also have a higher metabolic rate, so it should really be a surprise that they have endurance and strength. Linemen on football teams are incredibly athletic despite being super fat...
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-09-03, 12:13

But none of those guys are on a bike. They're incredible sprinters though, considering their size, some of them are indistinguishable from Olympic sprinters over 20-40 yards. Crazy acceleration. And frightening too, considering the crash that often stops it. It's no wonder they get the injuries they get. And this is the difference between them, or any high level athlete, and the rest of us: state of tune. They're strong, fast, even when some of us have similar strength we don't come anywhere near being able to recruit it as quickly, to say nothing about endurance and recovery. A couple of years ago I played a charity soccer game. Some CSL and under 21 nationals played, and graciously toyed with the rest of us, but when they turned it on, they were gone, not over distance, they were gone in the first three strides. If I remember my kinesiology, they got all kinds of fast twitch muscle recruitment, regardless of body type. I don't, I can feel it when I'm excercising, and its easily seen compared against real athletes. Also took me a week and two muscle tears to get over that one game.

It seems to me a fitness goal worth developing, something that should pay off in overall mobility especially as one ages, and probably best done with some actual participatory sports. But, failing that, two things came recommended. Cycling and olympic style weightlifting. Cycling because its pretty easy to do intervals on a bike. The Olympic style lifting because its a lot like jumping and promotes explosive power.
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2013-09-06, 17:32

Just went on my most... ambitious, and realistically foolish, ride yet, firmly biting off more than I could handle and winding up stuck about 14 miles 'in' with a punctured tube on one of my tires. Fortunately I was able to get a pick up and all is well, but it was definitely a learning experience in terms of how to manage longer rides.

The first half of the ride was excellent, some of the best I've done yet, I covered about 9 or 10 miles with no real drama, uphill, downhill, winding canyon roads, very good. Then I made one critical error in my route where, rather than staying on the backroads I cut over to one of the main roads. It was one of those boneheaded "how did I not know this would happen?, I have driven these roads a million times I know how steep they are" decisions that I guess I just made because I was feeling in the groove and I simultaneously overestimated my conditioning while underestimating how long and steep the next stretch would be for a bike. The next stretch was about 1.5 miles of almost 1000ft climb and while I can pat myself on the back in a consolation sort of "I made it farther up than I thought I could", eventually I found myself about 3/4s of the way and I had to resort to walking the bike up the remainder.

I could have turned around and gone back the way I came except that this particular route has a steep downhill portion to begin with and in the back of my mind I knew that if I could just get over this long hill the next 6 or so miles would be much more doable and put me within 2 miles from my home(in a big loop around the canyons).

Anyway, that was mistake number 2 because in retrospect turning back would have made more sense because there is a shallower alternate route I could have taken home that I didn't think of at the time.

Mistake number 3 was that I left around 10:30am and by the time I made it to the long hill ascent it was midday and close to 100º F.

Then eventually for my troubles, once I made it over the long steep hill and was finally able to coast down the next stretch and relax a bit, I took a short break near a small canyon store to refill my water bottle and the rough gravel around the storefront ruptured my tire.

So, even if I could have somehow managed to find the reserves or whatever to keep plodding along for the remaining 8 or so miles, I'd never dealt with a blown tube/tire situation and decided it was best at this point to just get extracted.

Still, the first portion of the ride was amazing and despite pushing pretty close to my limits I don't think I did anything particularly dangerous or risky, just not prepared enough. I think hopefully within a month if I keep training and improving at the rate I have been I'll be able to tackle the same or a similar route with much more confidence. In the meanwhile, having had a taste of the freedom you get from longer distances as well as putting yourself in remote backroads in the hills, I worry that the simple routes I've been taking around my neighborhood will be immediately more boring.

Also, I really need to find someone to ride with for longer distances.
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El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2013-09-09, 09:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
Well, I'm not in immanent danger of being so huge I can't fit in a regular airline seat, but I definitely pudge out if I take too much time away from the gym or eat a little too carelessly. I think because I played soccer for a long time (and swam quasi competitively in HS), I had a good metabolism until my early twenties, but got lazier and dumber through to my early thirties. I figure I have about a decade, maybe two, to make a real difference. Certainly after 50, any gains will only come with serious pain. The time to fix things is now, so for about three years I've been hitting the gym, with two significant interruptions, one from a pretty serious injury, one from work. I've trained only for power, and usually by myself, so mostly on machines. I'm through the full weight stack on almost every piece of equipment. These are push and pull weights of between 200-350lbs, but not the same things as free weights at all. The biggest thing is that I feel like it's made my muscles dense, but really slow. Certainly haven't changed me into a beach body, or really bulked me up either, which is just as well, I'm not keen to look like I stepped out of the WWE. I just started switching over parts of my workout to freeweights and I'm much weaker with those, single dumbells in the 20-50lbs range depending on excercise, form , reps etc... All the smaller stabilizing muscles are weaker and need lots of work, especially around the knees, hips, and shoulders. Can run 10K in about an hour, which is pretty good, but I know there isn't a second 10K in there, and needs at least a day of recovery time afterwards. I'd love to be able to say I ran a marathon, but I'd have to be at least 60 lbs lighter to have a chance at half that.

I still feel too heavy for a bike, even spinning on the stationary hurts my behind after some time.
If you go on bike forums there is often a section devoted to "Clydesdales" aka cyclists who are over 200lbs. I know because my walking around weight is 205-215lb depending upon the time of year. Most pro cyclists don't even weigh 145-150lbs so for you to take what is recommended or used by them as for you often is a bad fit.

For lifting, I'd recommend free weights and a 5 by 5 rep (5 seconds each direction) to make sure all the momentum is gone out of the lift and it is just you using muscle.

A favorite saying I've heard is that ounces are lost at the gym, pounds are lost in the kitchen.

Also as a 43 year old dude, let me tell you to fix anything and everything now. The weight becomes very hard to get and keep off after 40. Somewhere between 50-55 is when your body really starts to fall down on it's ability to repair itself well. It is around that time you hope you've planted some deep health roots because you're in true decline then.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-09-09, 11:00

I'm finding a gigantic difference between the typical exercise machines and free weights. In the machine there's so much bracing of your body against the rests, bench, bar, etc, that you can force so much more weight up than with free weights. I'm a trembling weakling by comparison now...

Clydesdales huh? I bent the crank on my last mountain-bike, maybe 10 years ago or so... I'm spinning once a week, on the weekend. Instructors tend to keep you out of the seat - less pain overall. I'd be happy to get down to 240 stay there for a few years, then slowly whittle down to 200 or so, which is probably as thin as I can get without being sickly...

.........................................

Last edited by Matsu : 2013-09-10 at 08:36.
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El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2013-09-11, 21:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I'm finding a gigantic difference between the typical exercise machines and free weights. In the machine there's so much bracing of your body against the rests, bench, bar, etc, that you can force so much more weight up than with free weights. I'm a trembling weakling by comparison now...
The support muscles will come along and also if you want to go beyond that get into core muscle work as well. That is where you see people not only benching with free weights but doing so on various items that require balance. I'm not completely there yet. I'm also a bit terrified that I would screw up my knee so I only indulge this a little bit.

Quote:
Clydesdales huh? I bent the crank on my last mountain-bike, maybe 10 years ago or so... I'm spinning once a week, on the weekend. Instructors tend to keep you out of the seat - less pain overall. I'd be happy to get down to 240 stay there for a few years, then slowly whittle down to 200 or so, which is probably as thin as I can get without being sickly...
So go to the bike shop, tell them weight isn't a concern on the bike, and ask for a stronger component.(crank)

I've had this sort of discussion dozens of times....

Person I'm riding with: This bike is beating the crap out of me. I can't understand why a bike that cost so much is making me hurt so bad.

Me: You do realize you're probably pushing 225lbs+ right and the bike you bought to emulate the tour riders is set up for someone who weighs a lot less?

Person I'm riding with: But the guy at the shop said this is the type of set up all the best riders use.

Me: I'll tell you what, go buy the same tires at 28mm and see if you still hate this bike or riding in this manner.

Person I'm riding with: Okay

Later......

Person I'm riding with: I can't believe how much more comfortable I am on this bike now.

Me: Well I'm sure on the tour you probably would have lost 10 seconds on certain hills and thus across a 3 week race, you'd have dropped 20-30 minutes of time.

Person I'm riding with: Dude, I don't care about that, my ass hurts less, my hands aren't going as numb and I don't hate this anymore.

Me: Exactly!

As for the weight thing, I totally feel you. I calculated that I would weigh just over 170 lbs at ZERO percent body fat which can't happen. So having some muscle and my type of frame just means certain trade-offs. That has been true as long as I've been alive. I've always hated BMI which assumes a certain frame type and muscle amount.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-09-12, 06:47

It wasn't a great mountain bike, just a steel frame department store BSA. I would never ride a tour de fantasy replica bicycle. Some things just look wrong, because they are.

When I get around to buying a bike, I'll be of the commuter-touring variety, maybe a hybrid.

.........................................
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adamb
Formerly “adambrennan”
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
 
2014-01-15, 17:53

I'm heading back to the Alps in June for 6 days of mountains so decided to treat myself to a (much lighter!) new toy



It has yet to see the road though due to being too shiny and the roads being too wet and dirty...
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AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2014-01-16, 04:09

Nice!! Congrats. The pleasures in life.

Sounds like a trip - let's here about it before then!
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Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-01-16, 04:26

What is that bike, adamb? Obviously a BMC (presumably not as pink as it looks in that photo!), but which model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo View Post
Me: I'll tell you what, go buy the same tires at 28mm and see if you still hate this bike or riding in this manner.

Person I'm riding with: Okay

Later......

Person I'm riding with: I can't believe how much more comfortable I am on this bike now.

Me: Well I'm sure on the tour you probably would have lost 10 seconds on certain hills and thus across a 3 week race, you'd have dropped 20-30 minutes of time.
There’s a growing consensus that you wouldn’t lose much time at all, and may even gain some. The trend is towards fatter tyres, with even the pros racing on 25 mm tyres these days (though still mostly tubulars).

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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adamb
Formerly “adambrennan”
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
 
2014-01-16, 19:01

It's a BMC SL01 with 105 compact groupset, not into crazy-person territory yet, and yes it is red ;-)

The trip is a tour booked through an activity holiday company and is 425km of cycling over 6 days, with challenge routes available to bump that up to 600km (with 17000m of ascent!) I'm really looking forward to it after my couple of days in the alps last year but I definitely need to up my training!
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Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2014-05-07, 08:35

How’s the training for your June trip coming along, adamb? And are you planning to watch the Giro start in Northern Ireland?

I’m hoping to do a bit of touring this summer, possibly including a London–Paris trip on the Avenue Verte. I will have to get a carrier/rack and some panniers. Looking for something lightweight, minimalistic, and long-lasting. Any pointers? I like the look of the Tubus Fly classic stainless steel model, for example – but at around €70 it’s quite expensive for a couple of bent tubes.

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
  quote
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