[psmith2.0]

Wow, I thought it was the perfect size (and an affordable price to get into a nice Mac).

The story here.

If this has to happen, here's hoping the remaining 20" and 24" models skootch down in price a good bit. It's gonna suck if the "entry level" iMac is now $1,499.

But if the 20" manages to slide down to $1,099-1,199 and the 24" to ~$1,599, I think that's a nice line-up we could all live with (especially when I think about how I paid $1,799 for a 15" iMac G4 five years ago...).

That 17" is a nice, manageable size. All the people I know who have iMacs in their home have the 17" model because it was affordable and a nice balance between decent screen size/resolution (widescreen 17" at an e-mail, surfing and iLife-friendly 1440x900) but still not a space-hogging monster like the 20" and 24" - especially the 24"! - can be.

I'm betting a redesign (thinner, different base/mounting design, maybe different materials and ports/SuperDrive placement, ultra-easy RAM/HD user upgrading, etc.) will accompany this change...no 17" and brand-new, spiffy-looking 20" and 24" models (perhaps designed in some way to remove as much fat and "Leno chin" so they don't seem as large and bulky)?



Do those two things - lower the prices to make them roughly the same prices as the current 17" and 20" and put them on a diet/whittle some of the excess plastic and bulk away - and they'll definitely have a winner on their hands! Who wouldn't want a sleek, thin and redesigned 20" widescreen iMac at today's 17" iMac price!



And it's certainly time for a fresh, new iMac design...it's been over two-and-a-half years since the iMac G5 was unveiled, and that design, as nice and simple as it is, has been around for a while, even holding on through the Intel transition, and I wouldn't mind seeing something different done with Apple's flagship computer at this point. It's time.

[Windowsrookie]

I love my 17" iMac. Something about it makes me choose it over my MacBook at home.

[Fahrenheit]

Meh, I had a 17 inch as well, but, when you think about it, 17 inch is getting quite small now in the scheme of things. 19 inch is the norm; my screen is 20 inches and it is perfect for my needs.

[psmith2.0]

I'm hoping they keep the 17" around as an education machine (and blow it out as cheap as they possibly can to schools and student buyers), because if they don't, the only Apple option will be the Mac mini, and then you get into display purchases, as well as keyboards and mice, having to secure the small, backpack-friendly minis, etc.



The 17" iMac is really nice for schools (if they're not going to do something ultra-affordable like a CRT-based eMac ever again, which I doubt).

I hope they don't shoot themselves in the wang with this move, and louse up their education offering.

Keep a solid Core Duo 17" iMac (small hard drive, maybe 40GB?), 1GB RAM (let's be honest...that's just expected, and needed, these days), no modem, 2-3 USB, one FireWire, AirPort Extreme, no Bluetooth. Just a solid, reliable and well-performing machine for school, with no frills or things that wouldn't be needed. Would it even need Ethernet? Try like hell to get it to $699-799 and dare Dell to do something better in the price/performance/ease-of-use/cute/secure and reliable arena when it comes to students and the classroom.

[turbulentfurball]

Originally Posted by Farenheit Meh, I had a 17 inch as well, but, when you think about it, 17 inch is getting quite small now

I tried *so* hard not to reply to this pointing out the blatant innuendo. But I failed. I thought 17 inches was rather big...

Anyway, I think AI reported this a while back too. I'd be sorry to see the 17 incher go. I currently use a 15.4" widescreen tft for my Mini, and whenever I see a 17" iMac I still think it looks huge to me.

[Windowsrookie]

Yes it would need ethernet. Our school doesn't have wi-fi (only in the laptop carts) and we have one of the best computer setups in the state.

[Fahrenheit]

13 inches now turb - but its wide so its still got the power, and the ladies are always impressed when I whip it out on my desk.

[steve77uk]

My first Mac was the iMac 20", I gave that to my parents and bought the 24", when I go around to their house and look at it I think god that is tiny! how did I cope!! I suppose in this day and age, I might think that about the 24" one day, but yes, the 17" was / is good for education...

[Robo]

I think that the 20" iMac is actually the "sweet spot," right now. It's hit that magic $1,499 price point. I'm pretty sure that Apple feels the same way, as evidenced by their lack of 17" monitors. I agree that if they dropped the 17" iMac, they'd drop the price of the 20-incher - probably to $1,299, which has traditionally been the base price of each new iMac. The 24" would drop to $1,799, and the 17" iMac (which would keep the current design, and likely be an education-only machine, but might still be available for consumers, much like the original iMac was when "The new iMac" came out) would eventuallly work it's way down to $799.

I'm really excited to see the new design, because I honestly have no idea what it will look like. Maybe it'll be a bit iPhone-inspired? Maybe it'll come in colors? I can't wait to be suprised.

[kscherer]

I am convinced the 17" will stick around for edubacation. It will drop to the $799-$999 price point, much the same way the eMac dropped down there when the iMac G5s popped into the world. The 20$ would hit the streets at $1299 and the 24s at around $1800, +/- a hundred bucks. There would be two 20" offerings, one at 2.16GHz and one at 2.33 (similar to todays offerings. RAM and drive configurations to compliment those two processor configs.

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by Roboman I agree that if they dropped the 17" iMac, they'd drop the price of the 20-incher - probably to $1,299, which has traditionally been the base price of each new iMac. The 24" would drop to $1,799,...

Maybe then well get the much desired headless/mini tower Mac back again at the $1499 price point.

[Anthem]

Hey, that's great! They're making room for the midrange headless!

[LoganT]

Originally Posted by Anthem Hey, that's great! They're making room for the midrange headless!

God I hope so.

[BenRoethig]

The iMac is the only Mac not to get a price increase since we switched to intel. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple just started it out at $1299 with a 2.0ghz CPU and completely dropped the GMA model again. I don't think it would be smart, but it seems to be the way Jobs wants to do business. Then again, if they are redesigning the things, they could be moving from the ancient panels they've been using the the popular 19" & 22" sizes

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig The iMac is the only Mac not to get a price increase since we switched to intel. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple just started it out at $1299 with a 2.0ghz CPU and completely dropped the GMA model again. I don't think it would be smart, but it seems to be the way Jobs wants to do business. Then again, if they are redesigning the things, they could be moving from the ancient panels they've been using the the popular 19" & 22" sizes

I'd hardly call the current panels "ancient." I don't think we'll see new sizes at all. Why have a 19" when you already have a 20"? Why have a 22" when you already have a 24"?

I think it'll just be a 20" model and a 24" model. I also think they'll keep a super-low-end 20" model (GMA, no remote, no bluetooth, smaller HDD, combo drive) just for education buyers at $999.

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by Anthem Hey, that's great! They're making room for the midrange headless!

With the cloverton price drops, I suspect the entire Mac Pro range is going 8-core. If Apple stays if its laptop based consumer line, they're going to seem behind since mobile quad cores are at least a year way. The large gap in the lineup will also appear much larger. They're going to have to make a true desktop of some sorts in order to have a quad core machine.

Originally Posted by fcgriz I'd hardly call the current panels "ancient." I don't think we'll see new sizes at all. Why have a 19" when you already have a 20"? Why have a 22" when you already have a 24"? I think it'll just be a 20" model and a 24" model. I also think they'll keep a super-low-end 20" model (GMA, no remote, no bluetooth, smaller HDD, combo drive) just for education buyers at $999.

iMac panels: 14ms response time, noticeable ghosting

New Panels: 2-6ms response time, no ghosting.

Also 19" is the replacement for the 17" and the 22" is the replacement for the 20" Not everyone has an unlimited money supply to move to the next size up.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig Also 19" is the replacement for the 17" and the 22" is the replacement for the 20" Not everyone has an unlimited money supply to move to the next size up.

I didn't say anything about money. From what I've been reading recently, the cost difference for Apple between the 17" and 20" panels is almost negligible.

I didn't realize the response time for the iMac panels was so slow, though. In that case, new panels may be in order, but I doubt we'll see 19" and 22" unless the 24" model gets bigger too.

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by fcgriz I didn't say anything about money. From what I've been reading recently, the cost difference for Apple between the 17" and 20" panels is almost negligible. I didn't realize the response time for the iMac panels was so slow, though. In that case, new panels may be in order, but I doubt we'll see 19" and 22" unless the 24" model gets bigger too.

To save money, Apple buys things like LCD panels and optical drives in large lots and then stockpiles them. Which is why you still see Apple using things like 23" displays, 16x DVD burners, and high refresh rate displays long after they've been replaced by newer models.

[Matsu]

I await the arrival of the 30" iMac HD

30" widescreen LCD monitors retail for 1499 (Dell), Apple's sells for 1799.

The guts of even the best iMac are not more than a 1K retail machine (sans monitor).

Looks like they could sell a 30" iMac tomorrow for $2499 and make money on it. Probably won't see something like it untill display prices fall a little more though...

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by Matsu I await the arrival of the 30" iMac HD 30" widescreen LCD monitors retail for 1499 (Dell), Apple's sells for 1799. The guts of even the best iMac are not more than a 1K retail machine (sans monitor). Looks like they could sell a 30" iMac tomorrow for $2499 and make money on it. Probably won't see something like it untill display prices fall a little more though...

More like $2899. The question is would there be a large enough market for such a machine. The 24" is pushing it for price as far as the all in one market goes.

[Matsu]

You're right, which is why we wont see it untill display prices fall enough -- but that's really just a bit more. It won't be long before 30" panels are selling for 999, look how far they've fallen already, give it another 18 months and ...

I thought the big iMacs first debuted at 2299, so 2499 could likely find a market, especially with some extra features incorporated, like a second internal HDD (that is a HUGE footprint for a circuit board afterall) and maybe a blue-ray or HD-DVD drive, and who knows what else...

[Frank777]

While it may have been ridiculous before, the DTP market is well served by the iMac line.
A Mac Pro isn't necessary for 90% of DTP work. A 30" inch imac would serve the low and medium graphics market nicely.

If I was Quark's CEO, I'd call Steve to ask about this, and ensure that a version of Xpress ships standard on all 30" imacs.

[psmith2.0]

Wasn't sure if I should start yet another "xxx is not long for this world" thread, so I'll just tack the following onto this thread (I created it, so I can expand/adjust as I see fit, I suppose...if a mod doesn't agree, then separate the following out to a new thread):

AppleInsider believes, via trusted sources, that the Mac mini is on its way out too.

Please tell me they'd do something - something - to replace it, so they can offer a legitimate sub-$1,000 Mac.

Isn't it strange...just now, when they've got more traction and presence than ever before, they're allegedly looking to off their most affordable Macs (the 17" iMac and Mac mini). If these aren't replaced with something, what will they do for education buyers and those who don't exactly dig the idea of having to lay out at least $1,299 or so to join the Mac-using club.

Does any of the above strike anyone else as "foot shooting" moves? Perhaps if they updated the mini more than once a decade and brought it more inline with their other offerings (Core 2 Duo, etc.) and maybe, oh I don't know, promoted the damn thing a smidge, it wouldn't seem like the "ugly stepchild" or whatever the article above called it.

It's a great little computer, and you'd think Apple would want to offer people - newbies and potential Windows defectors - an affordable way to get into a Mac.

If these rumors pan out and Apple does indeed deep-six these two particular products and we go back to Macs once again starting at $1,299 or so, I don't want to hear squawking from Apple or anyone else about "lost momentum" or "dwindling marketshare".

It's their doing: they create the mini - the thing that should've/could've been one of the neatest Macs ever, but they never seemed to have any love or devotion to it. They've let it fall behind (while climbing up in price). I wouldn't mind its less-than-amazing specs if it were going for $499 or so. But it's last year's tech at seemingly inflated, off-putting prices. No wonder it's not burning up any sales figures.

They can do what they want, but I just hope they don't piss away all this attention and goodwill they've gained over the past year or so by jettisoning their most affordable, "everyman" offerings, and re-establishing the vibe of Macs being pricier-than-average, "only for those with money" computers.



Makes me sad.

Here's hoping the above rumors are outright wrong, or they've got something else in mind for that sub-$1,000 space that is 5x cooler than the Mac mini, eMac and 17" iMac ever were! I'd be okay with that, definitely.

With any luck, they're working on some neat AIO with a 17" LCD (the 1440x900 found in the 17" iMac) for $599, available to both education buyers and the cash-strapped general public alike. If they managed to pull off something cool like that, then I won't mind them removing the 17" iMac and Mac mini lines.

But something tells me they'll probably just axe them both and replace them with nothing...

[PKIDelirium]

They need to stop screwing with my new system plans... 17" iMac.... Now the Mini...

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 But something tells me they'll probably just axe them both and replace them with nothing...

And something tells me that something is coming. Perhaps we are all building up for the inevitable disappointment of another "didn't get what we were hoping for" conference. And perhaps Apple is preparing to release something that will shock the crap out of all of us.

"Announcing the new iMac mini. 17 inches in your pocket!"

Could happen.

< laughs hysterically >

[psmith2.0]

Well that was a lot of help.

I don't know. Still both just rumors, so I can't get too worried about it all.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Well that was a lot of help. I don't know. Still both just rumors, so I can't get too worried about it all.

I'm convinced that the rumors of MacBook Pros are more than rumor. The gap between them and the MacBook is just too small. We are seeing drastic reductions in the sales of MBPros because of that small gap. A $1000 is a lot to pay for a bigger screen.

The iMac rumors I am not as convinced of, simply because Apple tends to do that in the fall/winter area, although stranger things have happened (MWSF '07?). We might see a discontinuation of the mini in favor of either a richer version of TV or a better designed mini-type headless with more power.

[Hobbes]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Isn't it strange...just now, when they've got more traction and presence than ever before, they're allegedly looking to off their most affordable Macs (the 17" iMac and Mac mini). If these aren't replaced with something, what will they do for education buyers and those who don't exactly dig the idea of having to lay out at least $1,299 or so to join the Mac-using club.

Well, I suspect they'll keep the 17" iMac for education. It'll be the new eMac.

As for foot-shooting move... yes, if Apple kills the mini without releasing an interesting new desktop model, e.g. a new Cube, that will be very foolish.

[rasmits]

Originally Posted by Hobbes e.g. a new Cube

a;lshjdfla No cubes!

No more superfluously-odd shaped computers with expensive / awkward internals and warranty-voiding home upgrades!

Down with the Cube, down with the Mini!!

[Hobbes]

A new cube is not the same as the old.