[hmurchison]

Ok it's time not to be jaded about this. Everthing points to this being totally legit. Appleworks finally looks to be getting an update. A new book is coming right now appended with an "X" placeholder. Finally we find out that AW isn't dead. Perhaps this app is announced at Apple Paris but if not I see it coming at MWSF. I'm excited...toss keynote 2 in and give me a total revamp and I'm buying.


Title: AppleWorks 6 for Macintosh : Visual QuickStart Guide
ISBN: 0201702827
Author: Nolan Hester
Format: Paperback / 2ND July 2000

This is for Nolan Hester's first AW6 book.

Here's the new book

Author: Nolan Hester
ISBN: 0321246640
Publisher: Peachpit Press - March 2004
Format: Paperback

Seems clear cut to me. Date differs by 4 years and ISBN number is different. We gotta ask ourselves why would PP take 4 years and register a new ISBN for AW 6.2.9. Answer is they wouldn't. This is a new version coming that is substantial enough to warrant the need of a new updated book. That in my book is AW7.

[DMBand0026]

I'm praying to the Apple gods that this is true. Save me from MS Word.

Not that Word is a horrible app, but I much prefer AW.

And I'll say what we're all thinking: It's about friggin time.

[Brad]

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.
Off to the Speculation forum!

(Though, I too mourn the abandoning of AppleWorks. )

[hmurchison]

Speculation normally doesn't come along with ISBN number. They don't pass those out for nothing.

[psmith2.0]

Is there any chance - any chance at all - that this Nolan Hester cat MIGHT have written a book about something other than AppleWorks?



Unless we've got info that he's been contracted to write ONLY about AppleWorks for the rest of his life, I'm not sure what any of this really means.



Could be just another iPod book? Or a book about Keynote, or any number of a thousand topics? Why the certainty of AppleWorks? I read the original post several times, trying to make sure I didn't miss anything obvious.

[hmurchison]

Hester has written plenty of books from Filemaker to Dreamweaver. I think the important fact is he wrote a AW6 book 4 years ago. The chances of him writing another book for a small update is frankly unlikely as he probably has better things to do.

I don't think Appleworks is dead. The rumor was when Gobe Productive went out of business a couple of ex Claris works engineers when back to Apple. Apple has also been putting work into optimizing the OSX text handling capabilities. AW7 right now wouldn't suprise me all that much. Keynote doesn't appear to be dead as Apple just had a contest concerning Keynote. Who has contests about an abandoed piece of software?

My guess is we see a revamped AW7 with Keynote 2 either Mac Paris or we'll be on hold until MWSF. Hell Apple could have a "Back to School" special where they have the new iMac + AW7 bundled for a good price.

[staph]

Originally Posted by hmurchison Hell Apple could have a "Back to School" special where they have the new iMac + AW7 bundled for a good price.

Personally, I'd hope for it to be bundled with the "i" machines, as it has been since time immemorial.

I'd still have to buy it, but I could look forward to a bundled copy when I do my yearly laptop upgrade.

[oldmacfan]

AW 7.0
QT 7.0
and the new iMac G5 all for Paris. Although all of this might have been delayed cause Steve is taking the month of August off to recuperate and that Keynote is Aug 31st.

[hmurchison]

AW7 could be a nifty update. Apple has much more technology to put in.

I'd love to see them scrap Carbon and go totally Cocoa.

They could then standardize on "Cocoa text"

Use Web Kit for HTML display/editing, Javascript processing etc

QT7 support for multimedia.

Core Image/Video support

and pdf kit for dealing with PDF.

Not to mention hundreds of other features to make us drool. We've waited long enough for an Appleworks update. Make it good Apple.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by oldmacfan QT 7.0

The next big version of QuickTime is version 6.6 as indicated by the Mac OS X 10.4 builds.

[Mac+]

AW7 - this sounds good. I used to love the fact that AW had a basic database with it. If they threw in Keynote that would truly rock! I hope this is on the cards!

hmurchison I'd also like to see it as a Cocoa app - those reasons you cite are compelling enough for me!

[Brad]

Originally Posted by hmurchison I'd love to see them scrap Carbon and go totally Cocoa. [snip] QT7 support for multimedia.

While I can't deny the ease of use in adding features and integrating extras into Cocoa, I don't want to let the notion that "Carbon is evil" spread around this discussion. A lot of technologies, QuickTime in particular, are still Carbon-based life forms. The Cocoa implementation we have today (NSMovie) for QuickTime is still just an anemic wrapper for the real goods that have to be accessed in Carbon.

[BuonRotto]

Off-topic: True, the problem with many Carbon products, especially QT is that they carry so much legacy code and have adopted more modern aspects of Carbon in a kind of half-assed way that they appear worse than that Carbon really offers. That, and when Adobe decides to throw a superfluous layer of code for the tools and display of its apps, they appear a lot slower than what Carbon can offer.

on-topic:

Where did you find this info about AW "x"?

[LudwigVan]

Perusing through the PeachPit Press website, I think the publishing house went on a reprint run this past spring, reissuing anything related to current software or new/updated applications that had just been released at about that time. Different ISBNs are pretty standard when it comes to reprints. If/when Hester gets around to writing the book on AW 7, it will no doubt get a completely unique ISBN of its own.

[Henriok]

Originally Posted by BuonRotto Where did you find this info about AW "x"?

MacRumors page 2 perhaps?

[chipz]

I really have no idea what Apple plans for AW. However, I really hope that a major update to AW is in the works. I use it and love it! It is superior to most of MS's products, even Office. Come on, Apple - we know you can do it.

[Brad]

Well, back in early April we had a very reliable source tell us that Apple was seeding builds of a word processor to a very select test group. He didn't have any more details aside from that simple statement at the time, though.

So, Apple really *should* be getting something together. We already know that TextEdit is getting beefed up a little more with Tiger (.doc table support). Whether or not that's related, I don't know.

[CoreMac]

Amazon UK

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by chipz I really have no idea what Apple plans for AW. However, I really hope that a major update to AW is in the works. I use it and love it! It is superior to most of MS's products, even Office.

I am not a big MS fan but I think it's a little disingenuous to posit that AW has anywhere near the same amount of useful functionality or robust interfaces as MS Office. Appleworks is clunky at best, though the word processor is pretty nice if you're just looking for the nuts and bolts stuff.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Moogs ...Appleworks is clunky at best...

The operative word being "is" (as in "in its current, ho-hum state").

But what if, during all this AppleWorks silence/downtime, Apple has been quietly cobbling together quite an ass-kicking suite to lay on us? Taking those rough edges off, giving it snazzy new features, perhaps making it somehow tie-in to the iLife apps or being .Mac-aware/savvy, etc.

I could see a great app coming from it! For people who just need good word processing and spreadsheet or database stuff, but aren't nuts about Microsoft Office or can't afford it or don't need all the bells and whistles, etc.

Perhaps it's been radically "de-clunked", and it'll be another Apple software winner?

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 But what if, during all this AppleWorks silence/downtime, Apple has been quietly cobbling together quite an ass-kicking suite to lay on us? Taking those rough edges off, giving it snazzy new features, perhaps making it somehow tie-in to the iLife apps or being .Mac-aware/savvy, etc.

Well that would be... you know... positively marvelous. Some people might even think it orgasmic (I'm not one of those people). But no matter how great it is, that won't make the existing AW any closer to being "better than MS Office". Not unless you're talking about Office version 6.

[hmurchison]

Frankly Appleworks 7 may or may not be coming. I am not sure. But I'm pretty damn sure that Apple will have an Office Suite of some kind. They are simply sitting on way too much technology not to do it. I find it very telling that

1. Keynote hasn't been updated in quite some time.

2. iCal hasn't been updated in quite some time.

3. Rumors of a Word processor codenamed "Document" and the trademarking of iWrite from Apple abound.

4. Continued tweaking of Carbon and Cocoa Text.

Everything seems to point towards Apple finally wrapping all of this goodness up into a new Suite. Don't be suprised to see iCal 2 become a very vital piece in the suite. iCal is for fun right now but I expect the next version to be all business. Apple has the "Core" tech to really develop a nice suite.

At WWDC one thing stood out when Sal Sagoian was demoing Automator. After he had completed his first "Script" he saved it, giving it a name. This named script now would be accessable from within Safari whenever he needed it. Envoking the script from Safari wouldn't launch Automator but rather complete the same steps in the background. Now I'm not familiar with the extent of "Services" but I thought that might be a bit too complex for Services meaning that this functionality in integration may be coming from some other new linking technology. Could be Core Data but I'm not sure. At any rate one doesn't have to imagine very hard how well this works with a Suite comprised of multiple components. Spreadsheets could be called up from the WP. Presentations could encompass both Spreadsheets and documents. Apple has an opportunity to make these seperates apps function in unity much better than MS can.

I want to see this.

[onlyafterdark]

Me too.

[CoreMac]

Originally Posted by hmurchison Frankly Appleworks 7 may or may not be coming. I am not sure.

I'm now pretty sure its coming, and it will be called Appleworks X (according to the Amazon link I posted above.)

[BuonRotto]

As far as Services and Automator, Services are basically just multi-step cut and paste jobs. They use the clipboard (neé pasteboard) to copy whatever you've selected, paste it into the appropriate app in the background (actually, a service of the app, a daemon I think), do something with it, copy that info back to the clipboard and paste it back into place of your selection. It's text-only right now since it really hasn't been tinkered with since NeXTStep days, but it's based on the ability of the clipboard in OS X to keep info in several formats simultaneously plus the ability for app processes to run without actually launching.

In my opinion, the holy grail of Mac productivity combines the power of script languages -- applescript, python, javascript, etc. -- with the extensibility and pervasiveness of services (including non-text selections and results) and the accessibility of something like Automator. This would only be a framework. Naturally, third parties would mostly supply the scripts because users for the most part, even with Automator, aren't going to take full advantage of this kind of thing without an expert going to some lengths to help them, show them what's possible and providing things that are really useful. That's what Cocoa apps mostly do now, and in the limited implementation of services right now, it's trivial to provide.

I see a lot of frameworks being built into the OS for improving productivity, from back-end and enterprise frameworks to GUI elements and Cocoa objects. However, I do think that Apple is keeping a close eye on what other do with this technology first in this case. Unlike the video and creative pro market, where Apple seems to be developing frameworks internally, then releasing polished APIs and SDKs for others to incorporate, it seems to me that Apple is building a lot of APIs for others to utilize first, with Apple providing only cursory implementation of them and seeing who can take off and run with this stuff. I mean, you have TextEdit and Keynote but you also have Mellel, Create, Intaglio, SubEthaNet and a bunch of little guys going farther with this stuff than Apple for the most part. I think Apple is reticent to jump into a crowded productivity market especially as a standalone suite and on a platform that has such a small marketshare in that area. So I think there's a two-way scenario that Apple is hedging its bets on:

1. if you build it in, they will come
meaning that adding pro-level features to the OS as frameworks will attract or help create developers who will take up this mantle.
2. if no one picks up the torch, run with it yourself
meaning that if none of these developers are able to or have the imagination to take advantage of these provided tools, then Apple can, if it has to, use them itself.

Like a speculative Photoshop killer from Apple, though, I don't think the company would try to do a straight-up productivity suite. I think they will be more specific with their goals and target market for such a set of tools. With any possible PS killer, Apple wouldn't compete head-on, they would spin-out an image/frame editor (or "processor" app) as part of the FCP/DVDSP suites. In the case of this productivity suite, they would be better served by targeting the same market and sell it as a solution for everyone else in these video production houses, easy communication as part of a larger project-based or maybe product-based business like film and video. I'm thinking one part Final Draft, one part FCP and one part FileMaker.

OK, this is getting to be one HUGE "quick" reply.

[hmurchison]

Words can barely describe how pathetic Apple's Business Strategy is. I feel their whole Enterprise Strategy is based on yet another company lie. Remember back when Fred Anderson was the top financial dog and Apple stated they wanted to get to %10 or around there. Apple has only dropped since then. Quite understandable too as they've done nothing really to generate interest in the Mac platform beyond the iPod(which runs on windows)

There are very pertinent reasons why this is so. Apple is simply not making themselves indispensable. So what what I can run Office on Macs, I got Office XP at school for $6. Buy a Dell or whatever and Office is what $140 tops?

Apple needs to get its ass in gear if they want to see biz desktops at all. Business just aren't going to deal with a bunch of different vendors. Pretend you have a friend that is starting a small biz and you want to promote Macs to him. What are you going to use to build his infrastructure. With MS you know you have major vendor(the platform vendor even) support behind business tools. With Apple you will have to run a hodge podge of small vendor apps which will make your friend uneasy. "Hmmm lets see we'll use Nisus for your word processing, Mariner Calc for spreadsheets, Filemaker for your DB..."

That's just wrong. Stability and support are vital for businesses and Apple is providing neither in the biz sector and hoping that some 3rd party can do the work for them. They were wrong 10 years ago and they are wrong today. In business people need a large and stable vendor with a nice scope of business applications. That ain't Apple.

"Redmond start your photocopiers" no how about "Apple start your photocopiers" and start running like a business that wants to make money and return back to your shareholders.

[dglow]

In the past I've had strange visions of what Aqua-fied document embedding might look like. Double-click the embedded document/component; the parent document shrinks and recedes into the background (Expose-like), leaving a foreground window/viewport showing a large functional view of the embed. This foreground window provides for full editing of the embed, and possibly belongs to an entirely separate application (distinct from the one displaying the parent document). Some neat visual effect would make it clear the foreground window is an extruded view of a portion of the parent document.

Hey, one can dream in Aqua... :smokey:

Anyway, I think an AppleWorks Next could be excellent. Steve's been in love with productivity suites since the Lisa. AW7 offers Apple a chance to redefine the category, like I believe they did with Keynote. PowerPoint is the most usable app in MS Office, IMHO, yet Keynote smacks it down with clean, beautiful simplicity. Word sucks beyond belief and deserves a whoopin', especially since that cursed app is the poster child for design-by-bloat and good ol' lazy, greedy, monopolistic stagnation.

Ahem... sorry. Back on topic. If Apple reminds everyone how straightforward word processing can be, provides seamless, bi-directional Office .doc compatibility, and throws in some iChat/iCal/.Mac scheduling/collaboration/document sharing... well, they might just have a winner on their hands.

BTW, AppleWorks 6.2 is, of course, available for both Mac and Windows. Will this preclude Apple from taking advantage of Cocoa-flavored goodness? Or will we see the return of Yellow Box for NT?

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Moogs Well that would be... you know... positively marvelous. Some people might even think it orgasmic (I'm not one of those people). But no matter how great it is, that won't make the existing AW any closer to being "better than MS Office". Not unless you're talking about Office version 6.

What, actually, would it have to do to be considered "better" than Office? I realize not for everyone. Some people truly do need Office (the work they do, the sharing of files across computers and platforms, using standardized applications in business, etc.).

But, again, not everyone out there is in need of that compatibility or needing the "industry standard" package. I look at so many of these features in Word and Excel and wonder what percentage of people truly push the envelope and go beyond those simple, standard tasks?

If someone just wants to write short stories or simple outlines for themselves or projects, or keep a spreadsheet or database relating to their own, at-home lives and goings on, why should they have to fork out money for Office?

The same reasons that so many people are nicely served by a $99 Photoshop Elements (and don't need all the things in the $600-plus Photoshop CS.

I'd like to see AppleWorks get updated, streamlined, have some nice tie-in with .Mac and/or the other iApps and come bundled on every new Mac, giving everyone - right out of the box - a word processing/spreadsheet/database solution for modest, at-home needs. Make the word processing component sit comfortably between TextEdit and Word...a little more robust than TextEdit, but obviously not as full-featured as Microsoft Word.

But inject some Apple magic and "wow!" appeal to it to make it kinda cool and unique in its own right...same with the speadsheet and database components. No business-level replacement for Excel or FileMaker, but ideal for recipes, music cataloging, etc. If Word is Final Cut Pro, Apple's take on it would be iMovie.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 But inject some Apple magic and "wow!" appeal to it to make it kinda cool and unique in its own right...same with the speadsheet and database components. No business-level replacement for Excel or FileMaker, but ideal for recipes, music cataloging, etc. If Word is Final Cut Pro, Apple's take on it would be iMovie.

Great post!

[chipz]

Perhaps I erred when I stated that AW is superior to any MS app including Office. I let my liking of AW influence me too much. Perhaps Apple should take the same approach towards a productivity suite as MS does. Offer a full fledged office productivity suite like MS Office as well as a less featured app like MS Works. The MS Works suite even includes Word. Perhaps this is what Apple may be considering. I know I hope so, as AW is in need of a serious update and Apple coiuld certainly do better than have a competitor's app as its main productivity suite.