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Mac+
9" monochrome
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
 
2021-09-02, 06:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Well I sent Tim an email anyway.

Yes, I know it gets vetted by underlings - and winds up in the crank stash - but let me have my fun today.
I also sent Tim an email! Last year, I was trying to press for an Apple sports band. I felt it might be on the cards, similar to the iPod, mini, nano, shuffle product evolution. Alas, not yet.

All I want is a simple life
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-02, 08:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac+ View Post
All good.

It’s nice to return to nova and read the back and forth. Any mock-ups Paul? You know… for old times’s sake.
Not really, although - funny you should ask - I suppose a simple kind of mock-up appears in this very thread, one page ago (page 8), where I lay out my ideas for a more well-defined, easier to research/shop for Mac product grid. And, further down, some Apple displays to accompany them. Three images in all (scroll down even more after the initial Mac layout idea).

Go to page 8, scroll down a bit and have a look. More of an overall idea/approach vs. any sort of detailed, from-the-ground-up product idea. But I did draw all the stuff you see from scratch, the type/layout, etc. So, technically, it’s kind of a mock-up?
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Mac+
9" monochrome
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
 
2021-09-04, 06:07

Ah, thanks! Just catching up with this.

I actually like the idea of a 25th anniversary iMac, but I tend to romanticise the past. I do also recall that during the “we’re lost and floundering” era of Apple they released the TAM.

The product matrix on P8 makes good sense to me. Appreciate your work.

All I want is a simple life
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-04, 08:56

Thank you That’s very nice of you to say.

I don’t do as much of that anymore, but once in a while an idea or a “what if…?” hits that I’ll want to flesh out and see. I always enjoy bringing that to life.

Doing the above stuff a week or so ago, I realized/learned how slick and intuitive Affinity Designer’s approach to gradients is, vs. Illustrator. So doing these things almost always winds up being a nice learning/“aha…I see!” session as I create stuff from scratch in an app that’s still somewhat new to me (two years in AD vs. 25+ with AI). But I’m getting there!
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2021-09-04, 10:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac+ View Post
I do also recall that during the “we’re lost and floundering” era of Apple they released the TAM.
Kind of a poorer execution of the iMac! I believe the iMac G3 folks would’ve liked to do a TFT, but it wasn’t really practical at a sane price point. The G4 then got it, and today’s M1 iMac is perhaps as close to the TAM vision as it gets.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-04, 11:16

I still can't quite get over how thin the M1 iMac is. Anytime I see "real life" pics or YouTube footage/reviews, it just seems impossibly wispy. We spent years thinking it was pretty impressive how they "glommed on the guts" on the iMac G5, and then all the variations of the aluminum/glass models for ~14 years, as they slimmed/tapered down over time.

And then, BAM..."It's like a really big laptop!"

One of the things all the YouTube reviewers commented on/noticed, upon lifting it out of its box, was just how insanely light it was. I know - and believe - thin and light isn't a hardcore requirement for something meant to sit on your desk and not be carried around with you every day, but it's kinda cool they managed to do it and with no real hit/penalty(?) to performance.

If you can achieve those two things without blatantly hobbling something or taking things away to reach those goals, go for it. I'm certainly not "anti-thin", in and of itself. It was just the Jony Ive implementation, to where form sometimes seemed to cruelly smack function in the face, that I ever had a problem with.

I can't wait to see one of these things in real life. I may be in a position Tuesday that I'll be passing near a local Best Buy. I may stop in and see if they've got one of these on display in their little Apple section. Seeing one in real life, and using it for 5-10 minutes, might wind up being what pushes me over the edge, especially now that these current-generation refurbs are available.

"Damn, I need to go home and get that silver $1,439 refurb now...".

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-09-04 at 12:04.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-09-04, 12:17

Right.

The 2012-2020 slim unibody design just felt awkward to me. You got the drawbacks of less flexibility, without much of a real benefit.

The M1 design is a more honest design. It isn’t curved or tapered; it fully embraces what it is.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-09-04, 12:32

Yes, the M1 iMac looks so much better than the curved/humped back of the 2012-2020 models. I can only assume that hump was there to make room for the HDD's the some of them were shipping with?
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-04, 12:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Right.

The 2012-2020 slim unibody design just felt awkward to me. You got the drawbacks of less flexibility, without much of a real benefit.

The M1 design is a more honest design. It isn’t curved or tapered; it fully embraces what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Yes, the M1 iMac looks so much better than the curved/humped back of the 2012-2020 models. I can only assume that hump was there to make room for the HDD's the some of them were shipping with?
It looked nice overall, but I hated that 2012 redesign from day one (and wrote about it here, I remember). It indeed was a false, "poser" thing, only appreciated from 1-2 specific angles/viewing positions. Otherwise, from the side, it looked like it was six months pregnant with a baby iMac. The whole thing just felt pointless and like a parlor trick/forced illusion.

"Stand right here - don't move! - and look how thin my computer is!"



"Yeah, but when I move two feet to the right, it looks a little goofy and 'who asked'. So what's the point? Who, exactly, is this supposed to impress...house guests who stand on this one taped mark on your floor the entire time they're here?"

Been asking that since 2012...

And since that redesign also somehow spelled the end for user RAM upgrades for the 21.5" model (but not the 27") was also another bad outcome, and illustrates exactly what I'm talking about. To achieve some false sense of thinness that won't hold up if your house guest walks past your desk at the wrong angle/position, buyers of the 21.5" iMac were suddenly forced to pay Apple's ridiculous RAM upgrade pricing on day of purchase, knowing that was their one and only shot to do so. And, Apple being Apple, they neither outfitted the 21.5" models with double RAM stock or lowered/adjusted their BTO pricing to sane levels.

So, to me, it was a classic "screw you...whaddya gonna do?" move.

"We're gonna give it a pointless redesign that doesn't really matter/hold up, we're gonna weld it shut so you can't upgrade your own RAM at sensible pricing and we ain't lowering the price on shit...you'll pay completely unreasonable prices for 4-8GB RAM - for years to come! - and you'll like it. You're welcome."

Yeah, this M1 iMac is more like "okay, this is a legit redesign, and not a fake-out approach. Look at this thing from any angle you want, and it's truly thin."

That's probably the reason this model appeals to me more than the 2012-2020 one ever did. It's an honest "look how thin I am!" design, and any praise for said thinness is legit and earned. No ginned-up fakery or pointless rounding/tapering (only appreciated from specific angles/distances) involved. The M1 is 100% "yep, that's absolutely thin and sleek...no caveats or catches. You got me!"

I realize they couldn't have done that, pre-M1. But they didn't have to do the 2012 thing either.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-09-04, 13:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Yes, the M1 iMac looks so much better than the curved/humped back of the 2012-2020 models. I can only assume that hump was there to make room for the HDD's the some of them were shipping with?
Yeah, plus cooling.

(The iMac Pro, which never existed in HDD configuration, used that room for a much better cooling system instead.)

But, this really felt like a solution in search of a problem. If you can't make it thinner without a weird hump like that, and if people don't really notice the thinness much anyway, consider not making it thinner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Yeah, this M1 iMac is more like "okay, this is a legit redesign, and not a fake-out approach. Look at this thing from any angle you want, and it's truly thin."
Right.

It still has the same drawbacks, in a way — no RAM upgrades for you.

But it does have the benefit of being an all-around nice look, no matter the angle.

The nerd in me wants it to me thicker in order to allow RAM and SSD upgrades, but almost anyone would never need that, and I'm not sure how much thicker (and clunkier) it'd have to be to allow for that.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-04, 13:30

...and I'd be okay with no user RAM upgrades (been used to that for a good while now), if the Apple pricing were just a little more in line with what you'd get at Crucial, OWC, Tiger, that Egg place, etc. Doesn't have to be exact - Apple will always charge more Just Because™, but shit...$200 for 8GB (to take the current 27" Intel iMac, which still allows user upgrades, from its stock 8GB to 16GB) seems a little steep in any solar system.

OWC sells that single 8GB DIMM, meant for the current-generation 27" iMac, for $44.99.

But they never seem to budge on that one component. Unless Apple is truly using some special, high-end, ultra-tested, quality RAM (and maybe they are?), it seems like there's some wiggle room there on their end. Especially since they went and welded things shut at nobody's request/insistence.

Meet me halfway, Apple. Throw me something resembling a bone on the RAM BTO front. Do that, and I don't care what you weld shut. Deal?
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-09-04, 13:50

Dell does the same thing. Pricey first-party accessories isn't an atypical strategy, but it hurts doubly when going third-party isn't an option at all.

(Not to mention if you do need to upgrade after the fact, even the first party isn't an option.)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-04, 14:05

Exactly. So make it slightly less painful on the day-of-purchase.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-09-04, 19:29

The longer this wait for the larger iMac takes, the more I think Apple is positioning it solely as a high-end machine.

24" is good enough for consumers, 30" for SOHO and business applications. A merger of the 27" iMac and iMac Pro ideas.

If so, the RAM pretty much has to be upgradable, not so?
People running higher end business and scientific apps are going to want more than 16-32GB.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-04, 19:41

You’d think. And Apple’s pricing to go to 32GB and beyond is insane.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-10, 15:55

Good news. I guess that weird, arbitrary "online exclusive" approach didn't pan out as they'd imagined?

Makes no sense to hold some colors back from certain outlets. That just annoys customers.

I should be able to walk into any Apple Store and get whatever color iMac I want (assuming they're in stock). But holding the orange, purple, etc. back is silly. Now they're not. Orange, while gorgeous, isn't special, in and of itself.

But maybe it was a manufacturing issue? They took longer to get lots of the orange, purple and yellow ones made in real numbers, but now they've caught up? Maybe they weren't as sure about orange, purple and yellow so they just didn't make huge batches of them at first? Might be something like that.

Whatever the reason...good. All colors, all stores (and, hopefully, third-party joints as well, eventually).
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-09-10, 16:07

I suspect the holdout had to do more with manufacturing issues than inventory decisions. There have been certain models that are taking us a month or longer to get.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-09-10, 16:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Good news. I guess that weird, arbitrary "online exclusive" approach didn't pan out as they'd imagined?

Makes no sense to hold some colors back from certain outlets. That just annoys customers.

I should be able to walk into any Apple Store and get whatever color iMac I want (assuming they're in stock). But holding the orange, purple, etc. back is silly. Now they're not. Orange, while gorgeous, isn't special, in and of itself.
I don't think there was any spite involved, just difficulty of stock-keeping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Maybe they weren't as sure about orange, purple and yellow so they just didn't make huge batches of them at first?
That would be my guess.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-09-10, 17:06

It's the only thing that makes sense and doesn't make them look silly. For whatever reason, they must've figured "silver, blue, green and pink(?!) will be the popular draws/sellers...let's make a boatload of those, and then those that we believe are the three quirkier, niche colors - orange, purple and yellow - we'll ramp up afterwards to get tons of those out there as autumn nears.

Yeah, it probably is that. Just glad to see it finally happen, whatever the reason.

Might've been nice to hear it on the front end, but companies don't like to announce/say things that make them look lacking or "not meeting demand" in any sort of way, so...

It just looked like they might've been arbitrarily holding a few colors back from retail for four-plus months.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-09-10, 20:43

The new iMac has been out more than 3 months now, and I still have yet to see one myself in-person.
That's the first time that's happened since the machine launched in 1998.

It might be that I'm getting too old and jaded to care about making a special trip to the Apple Store.

But I guess I'll just blame it on the pandemic.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-09-11, 00:19

I've never been in our local Apple Store, and it's been here for 10+ years. I could care less about that crap-fest.

Fortunately, I work for an Apple Premier Partner (17 years, now), and I've seen all seven colors in person. I've been sitting in front of yellow for three months, and I love it. Were I to get a 24" iMac right now, it would be that color. By far the most pleasing iMac I've ever sat in front of, and I've sat in front* of all of them.

* Not at work, mind you, but at some point. I owned a Bondi Blue G3 and a 15" G4, and saw all of the G3 colors at the Comp USA before it imploded. At MacLife, I've sold every model since the G4.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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