[scratt]

According to a (Perhaps Fake) "September 14th" Press Release from Nintendo of the US, the Wii will have an optional Head Mounted Display unit.. To people unfamiliar with VR that is either a mono, or stereo viewing system in a helmet that immerses you in the game. Full HMDs are supposed to have tracking, and tracker lag was part of the reason I left the Virtual Reality Developement community.... (Not to mention at that price point it will definitely be mono (or cheaply simulated stereo). Either way it is yet another thing to screw with your brain.)

I predict.. People are going to get very ill inside those things.
And I am more certain that the Wii is going to the new skateboard of the computer world.

Info from Digg article, and pictures posted on flikr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlogank...7594254104001/

EDIT - Looking like a fake.. Which would make sense.. There will be too much lag for this to be possible, unless Nintendo are insane.

[blakbyrd]

Interesting.

[Robo]

The same series of press releases claimed a bunch of other bogus things, such as a $175 price point for the Wii (?!?) and a partnership with Apple. It's fake.

[scratt]

We sussed it as a fake pretty quickly.. Note my edits above..

I thought the $175 price point was pretty close to reality anyway though? Is that not the case?

[Wrao]

It could probably work pretty well actually. A head-mounted display of some sort wouldn't need to incorporate any additional sensors or tracking, it could just be a display. It doesn't need to be typical VR or even approaching that type of environment, the controller takes care of all the sensing and input, where the head mounted display merely heightens the immersion, without trying to add an additional layer of control(which would be mostly unneeded)

It would have to be lightweight though, like those little eye mounted projection screen things that simulate a 50" display by sitting 6 or 7 inches away from your eye. A full on helmet or even goggles would be impractical methinks.

I don't see Nintendo trying another virtual boy just yet(I do believe they may very well go down that road when the time/technology is right), but I think the Wii's technology would compliment a head-mounted display pretty well.

The Optional thing is sketchy, since any optional peripheral that adds sufficiently to the system is almost always doomed to fail, mostly due to the fact that people don't lie buying additional shit to play a game, and also developers don't like to have to code for additional shit they can't necessarily play with first.

It could very well go the way of the Nintendo 64 Disc Drive. A good idea, adding a ton of functionality to new and existing games, but, it never really materialized and was basically useless and expensive.

But, as I mentioned before, the Wii's controller system does lend itself to a head-mounted display pretty well, Nintendo doesn't need to do anything about that though, 3rd parties can handle it and people can indulge in it as they feel necessary.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by Wrao It could probably work pretty well actually. A head-mounted display of some sort wouldn't need to incorporate any additional sensors or tracking, it could just be a display. It doesn't need to be typical VR or even approaching that type of environment, the controller takes care of all the sensing and input, where the head mounted display merely heightens the immersion, without trying to add an additional layer of control(which would be mostly unneeded)

If you are not going to have some kind of tracking why would you want a tight, sweaty helmet on with a slightly out of focus LCD a few inches from your eyes, when you could be looking at a real screen?

Originally Posted by Wrao But, as I mentioned before, the Wii's controller system does lend itself to a head-mounted display pretty well, Nintendo doesn't need to do anything about that though, 3rd parties can handle it and people can indulge in it as they feel necessary.

At this level of hardware they still won't get rid of lag (heck the lag does and will affect the existing control system), and that will lead to lack of immersion (at best) and Virtual-Sickness [TM] (most likely)!

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by scratt If you are not going to have some kind of tracking why would you want a tight, sweaty helmet on with a slightly out of focus LCD a few inches from your eyes, when you could be looking at a real screen?

Because you wouldn't want a tight sweaty helmet. I saw a headset like 3 or 4 years ago that involved a very lightweight and sleek setup with OLEDs and some projection system I think? I do not remember the specifics, and I can't find a link, but the result of this setup was a simulated 50" display at pretty high resolution. The technology worked and was real, but it was like $2000 for one. Has that technology dropped to the $79 consumer price point yet? probably not, but sweaty and tight helmets aren't the only way to create a head mounted display that is usable.

Not something Nintendo is likely to invest in, but, assuming you can get the resolution decent enough, and the wearable system lightweight and 'free' enough. There isn't any reason a 3rd party couldn't develop and market this type of display for use with the Wii. I wouldn't be investing in them, but hey.

At this level of hardware they still won't get rid of lag (heck the lag does and will affect the existing control system), and that will lead to lack of immersion (at best) and Virtual-Sickness [TM] (most likely)!

I don't think lag is an issue with the Wii, no one has reported it being laggy, unless I've missed an article or two, it's pretty unanimous that the controller system works pretty much flawlessly, as do the graphics and screen renderings...etc. And if they don't based off the limited exposure people have had, they will by the time games and specs are finalized.

I'm pretty sure you could make an HMD work well with the Wii, but I'm not sure if you'd want to. You're probably right about getting sick while using it, or otherwise confused and frustrated. But, it still could work, and potentially very well with some types of games.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by scratt We sussed it as a fake pretty quickly.. Note my edits above.. I thought the $175 price point was pretty close to reality anyway though? Is that not the case?

I think it'll cost $199. An analyst predicted that the Japanese price would be 19,990 Yen (about $170), but I think it'll cost more than that. Besides, what was the last console that costed $*75? You don't see many consoles being launched for $445 or crazy numbers like that. Even the Xbox 360 - which almost cost, well, $359.99 - was eventually split into two SKUs, each made to a price point. Console are usually made to a price point, and thus far, ever Nintendo console has been made to $199.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by Wrao I don't think lag is an issue with the Wii, no one has reported it being laggy, unless I've missed an article or two, it's pretty unanimous that the controller system works pretty much flawlessly, as do the graphics and screen renderings...etc. And if they don't based off the limited exposure people have had, they will by the time games and specs are finalized.

Take it from me lag *is* an issue. Perhaps not something that people have noticed with the hand control, but with an HMD there is no possible way that they can avoid lag. The simple fact of the matter is that the signal from the tracking getting into the system, and then being incorporated into the viewing matrix cannot happen fast enough for the human playing the game not to be aware that the image they are seeing is slightly behind where their eyes and head are looking.. Which in turn brings on disorientation and what we used to call 'Virtual Sickness'. Until tracking and rendering can all be done as fast as the head can move, and the eyes percieve there will always be lag on VR systems.

And as for a consumer HMD.. Sega and myself were working on that for the Dreamcast many many years ago, and we shelved it, because of price point, production quality, and ultimately lag. Not enough has changed to make this a viable option yet. Heck NASA don't even have a decent VR system yet... As a novelty toy it may sell a few thousand to a few hardened Nintendo Fanboys, and some sharp salesmen may get people to take one home, and eventually stick it in the loft with their skateboards, but it ain't a viable consumer product yet.. not by a long shot.

[jared52]

How do you say "Wii"?

[scratt]

I have never said it, only typed it.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by jared52 How do you say "Wii"?

we.

[dmegatool]

In french it's like "wee"

[Matsu]

I remember that one of the innovative things about nintendo's original super mario title for the NES was the control pad response, the way there seemed to be a sort delayed response, relative to the characters' speed, that gave an impression of sliding around that made the game a lot trickier than one might originally think at first glance.

I wonder if -- and keep in mind that I have zero technical knowledge about these things -- if the same shortcomings that produce VR sickness might be made to simulate an actual physical-physiological interaction/response - like sliding or falling or some narrow set of momentum like effects?

At $79 a peripheral might only find one or two games that establish an idiom where the effect succeeds, but if it succeeds, a franchise of 2-3 sequels is well worth a $79 tag...

[scratt]

Perhaps.. The thing is that no one has really noticed this lag on the controller, as delay in controls of a few 50ths of a second don't really affect game play at the basic level.. But as people get more proficient on a game and try to whip their 'virtual sword' around quickly to stab an opponent just out of reach they will notice the lag, or the con*.. Now this can be very carefully dressed up in the games pre-programmed character moves and so on... That way you just kind of tolerate it.. Try it on any game you have on a console now.. Try to do a handbrake turn at high speed in something like 'Need for Speed', for example... The car does not repsond instantly, but lags slightly behind.. But that's ok because we don't even really want a reaction that fast, as we may not be able to control / percieve it properly, because we are too far removed from any other possible real world style feedback.. So in games it works sometime, and is even necesary.. But not when it screws with your body's sense of what it has done, and the reaction to those actions.. That is very bad, and is where the Wii controller, and possible HMD, will fall down. (Please note that is an example of control lag - not a direct comparison to the problem).

The problem with an HMD is you are trying to take over the input to the eyes, which are nerves connected directly to your brain (some would say simply an extension of your brain).. It's not like playing with nerves in your toe. Your brain is not as forgiving, nor do your eyes stare forward all the time.. So you have a few problems..

Whipping your head round to see the guy sneaking up behind you, because you heard him 'behind' you, or 'above' you.. (Now don't even get me started on how hard vertical sound placement is..) Anyway.. You will turn your eyes, and your head, and then have to wait a fraction of a second for the screen to update.. Even though it's a fraction, your brain is already screaming that the world has stopped spinning, and we are all going to die, because it just turned around, and the same image is still infront of it!! ARGGGHHHH! But you are not even aware of that on a conscious level. But you have just started to feel a little queezy. Then the expected image comes into view in the HMD, but your eyes are already doing a lunatic search for the thing they expected to be infront of them, and your head has already lit it's crack pipe up to try and soothe the pain.....

Do this over and over again in something which is actually putting pressure on your cranium (No matter how nice the HMD is, it will be irritating to wear for most people) and then go munch on a box of Nurophen, because you'll need to..

*At the moment everyone is all "Wow" and "Wii" about the new control system, but this is in Nintendo centric controlled test groups, and in noisy distracting consumer show environments on hardware and software tweaked by the people who are selling you this crap. So it's a perfect case scenario..

I am very excited about the look of the new Zelda, and for slow puzzle based entertainment I guess this tracking will work.. But for high speed, high accuracy, stressful shooting, driving, martial arts type games they will not achieve a real time realistic control and feedback loop that works. Nor would an HMD do you any favours in the brain pain dept. So the games will have to be written to take into account the limitations of the controllers, and after a while when you recognise those drawbacks in every game you will want to go buy a joystick - believe me.

Virtual Tripping, where you just stick the HMD on, and let Mario dance infront of you in psychadelic laggy blurry wonder may appeal to some people, and it might be a nice effect with a spliff, but I don't think many people will let their kids do it... More's the pity.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by scratt At the moment everyone is all "Wow" and "Wii" about the new control system, but this is in Nintendo centric controlled test groups, and in noisy distracting consumer show environments on hardware and software tweaked by the people who are selling you this crap. So it's a perfect case scenario..

Yeah, just like with all the PS3's good press, oh... wait. As it stands basically everyone that has used the thing agrees that it does live up to the hype(of which there isn't really that much). Frame their experiences however you'd like, it doesn't change the fact that everyone that touches one of these things has a good time.

I am very excited about the look of the new Zelda, and for slow puzzle based entertainment I guess this tracking will work.. But for high speed, high accuracy, stressful shooting, driving, martial arts type games they will not achieve a real time realistic control and feedback loop that works. So the games will have to be written to take into account the limitations of the controllers, and after a while when you recognise those drawbacks in every game you will want to go buy a joystick - believe me.

I think you might be right. My little brother refuses to use the wavebird wireless controller for playing super smash bros. He's become so refined at that game that he can sense/feel the response difference between wired and wireless controllers for specific moves. He even specifically went out of his way to buy a brand new controller because all our controllers had just that little bit of wear. Likewise, I've known plenty of gamers that have had similar gripes with wireless controllers(on any system) once they reach a certain level of refinement in their game technique. However, that level of refinement is certainly not commonplace, and it is certainly not the mainstream. I'd be more concerned with graphical lag caused by devs trying to push the hardware too far before I'd be concerned about input lag. Ultimately, I don't think any of it really matters though, the only thing that matters is that you enjoy the time spent on the machine.