[nikstar101]

As there seems to be a bit of Google versus Apple tension at the moment, Google seem to be stepping into another Apple territory with Google TV. Admittedly Apple hasn't really done much here and they treat it as a hobby, but it does show they are both thinking on the same lines....

http://www.electronista.com/articles...logitech.sony/

I am not sure i want more Google stuff in my house, storing data on what i watch and then trying to serve me ads on that basis, but it will be interesting if they can get this idea to fly. Something that Apple has yet to do. I don't see why Apple hasn't started to put more effort into Apple TV as iTunes usage seems to be increasing and i think that they could easily transform iPhone OS into an Apple TV OS and create a much richer platform.

[PB PM]

The AppleTV is a pet project, not something serious, IMO, it could just up and disappear one day, like the iPod-High Fi or whatever it was called.

As for Google TV, the idea is interesting, I'd rather watch boring, yet targeted ads than ones for stuff that holds no interest to me whatsoever.

[nikstar101]

Originally Posted by PB PM The AppleTV is a pet project, not something serious, IMO, it could just up and disappear one day, like the iPod-High Fi or whatever it was called. As for Google TV, the idea is interesting, I'd rather watch boring, yet targeted ads than ones for stuff that holds no interest to me whatsoever.

I agree at that level, but i am not so sure i want Google holding all my tv watching habits for the rest of time. If you have a Google account they are suddenly starting to hold a hell of a lot of information about you and what you do.

I think it is time Apple made a decision on Apple Tv, kill it or use it. If they simply leave it and get beaten by Google that will be a bit of a black eye.

[PB PM]

I'm not worried about Google knowing what I watch on TV, it's nothing top secret or anything. Your cable or satellite company knows what you watch, what difference does it make?

[nikstar101]

Originally Posted by PB PM I'm not worried about Google knowing what I watch on TV, it's nothing top secret or anything. Your cable or satellite company knows what you watch, what difference does it make?

Well i am not sure how a satellite company knows what you watch? As most dishes only receive?

In small terms knowing what you watch on tv doesn't really matter, but if you started to add that, to say your full home address, what you read on the internet, who and where your friends are that you email, what social networks you belong, where your are most of the time (with GPS on your mobile) you could probably make a good profile of a person. Now if the government said they wanted this info everyone would be up in arms saying that it is an invasion of privacy, but somehow when its a company we seem happy to hand all that data over.

Anyway this is derailing this thread, which is really about what Apple is going to do about Apple TV!!

[PB PM]

I just don't see the concern that's all. I don't have a GPS, so they cannot track me, and my phone doesn't have any google apps. If someone wants to know something about you, they don't have to crack into Google's data base to find out.

As for AppleTV, as I noted before, I think it will just slowly fade away into the night. As long as they have that front row like interface it is going nowhere.

[addabox]

But isn't the bigger question at what point a Google world starts to freak people out? I mean, if you buy a lot of MS or Apple stuff, fine, you pays your money and you takes your goods.

But if you run an Android phone, Chrome, Google docs, Gmail, something like Buzz or Wave, use You Tube or Picasa and Google search and possibly now a Google set-top box...... well, Google could probably reverse engineer you.

My relationship with Apple mostly begins and ends at the point of sale, with a bit of server side stuff for iTunes or Mobile Me. Google is looking to endlessly refine its model of exactly who you are, with all your habits and purchases and tastes and tendencies and contacts and browsing history and god knows what else, the better to sell you. And that's just for now-- what horror show of a targeted, extremely personalized augmented overlay might they be planning? Google maps knows I'm a drunk and wants to tell me about the next liquor store. That Android app noticed I'm in range of my mistresses house. Certain information is available to "authorized parties", for the right price.

Sorry, it just creeps me the fuck out. We're talking about giving away the keys to our lives to an advertising company. No thanks.

[PB PM]

That's why you never get everything from one source. I only use GMAIL for web based contacts, nothing too personal. If I want to talk about something personal, I meet the person. I mean every phone call you make is saved at your phone companies data center, does that stop you from having privet conversations with people on the phone? They could use information about you from that too. My question is, where does the paranoia end?

[addabox]

Originally Posted by PB PM That's why you never get everything from one source. I only use GMAIL for web based contacts, nothing too personal. If I want to talk about something personal, I meet the person. I mean every phone call you make is saved at your phone companies data center, does that stop you from having privet conversations with people on the phone? They could use information about you from that too. My question is, where does the paranoia end?

It's not paranoia when it's true, and the phone company doesn't also provide my operating system, document retrieval and editing, record keeping, etc. Most importantly, my phone company isn't explicitly an advertising company whose only source of revenue is shopping out the data from all of those.

You or I can choose to limit our use of Google products, but the Google plan appears to be to get people living in a stem to stern Google world that is entirely about targeted advertising. My thought is that, if they persist in endlessly expanding into every facet of 21st century life, this fact is going to start dawning on more people and they may actually do themselves harm.

I don't think anyone wanted the Nielsen people to turn into a vast, multi-tentacled provider of every imaginable service and technology, you know? On account of what they are at heart.

[ezkcdude]

I suppose you don't use credit cards.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Don't forget debit cards either. Purchases are processed by the same companies (MC, VISA).

[joveblue]

Originally Posted by PB PM The AppleTV is a pet project, not something serious, IMO, it could just up and disappear one day, like the iPod-High Fi or whatever it was called.

Originally Posted by nikstar101 I think it is time Apple made a decision on Apple Tv, kill it or use it. If they simply leave it and get beaten by Google that will be a bit of a black eye.

I disagree. Personally at this stage I have little interest in the AppleTV. However, unlike the iPod HiFi, which was just another in the hundreds of iPod Docks available, the AppleTV actually forms a useful link in a business model. For those customers who purchase and rent a lot of TV and movie content from the iTunes store, the AppleTV is a really great way to access it on your TV. Remove it from the product line and suddenly heavy users of the iTunes store lose value from the content they're purchasing.

I think they're just biding their time until broadband becomes faster, cheaper and more widespread. This sort of service will really start to take off.

They really need to make it a bit more of an all-rounder though. It's sales are going to be sluggish until it can do more than one thing, IMO. If they want it to take off, they should include a DVD player (or Blu-Ray) at the very least, and ideally a TV tuner as well. This way you avoid having to switch back and forth between different inputs on your TV and sound system, turning them on and off, etc. It also helps justify the purchase price.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend Don't forget debit cards either. Purchases are processed by the same companies (MC, VISA).

Also, I would assume he doesn't buy anything from Amazon or eBay. If any companys really know what I like, it's those two.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

IMHO, Apple TV needs to have DVR functionality. Why call it Apple TV if it can't record TV? Oh, I get it, Apple TV = what Apple wants you to rent/buy from them to watch on TV.

[nikstar101]

I think add is concerned that you are providing all these details to ONE company.

Yes i might use my phone or use a credit card to buy something but if you start linking all that data together thats when it starts to get freaky.

Plus a credit card only know when i buy something, it doesn't know what i look at.

[Luca]

If you're so paranoid about Google then why do you use so many Apple products? Which company has greater aspirations for world domination? What's really the difference between what Google does (suck you into using all their products in order to gather personal information and thus sell targeted advertising) and what Apple does (suck you into using all their products in order to get lots and lots of money from you)?

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Because information is power, much moreso than making money off me from product sales.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Yes i might use my phone or use a credit card to buy something but if you start linking all that data together thats when it starts to get freaky. Plus a credit card only know when i buy something, it doesn't know what i look at.

Targeted advertising works much better if they know what you buy. And credit card companies and banks are 100000000 times scarier, more ruthless, and less ethical than Google. If anybody is going to let your data get in the wrong hands, it's the banks, not Google.

[addabox]

Originally Posted by Luca If you're so paranoid about Google then why do you use so many Apple products? Which company has greater aspirations for world domination? What's really the difference between what Google does (suck you into using all their products in order to gather personal information and thus sell targeted advertising) and what Apple does (suck you into using all their products in order to get lots and lots of money from you)?

Again, I'm not "paranoid" about Google-- their business model is there for all to see. And it has nothing to do with aspirations of world domination, it has to do with privacy.
And leaving aside the editorializing language in the question above, you're asking what's the difference between giving a company money and giving them personal information that they can sell. I think the difference is self evident.

[addabox]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude I suppose you don't use credit cards.

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend Don't forget debit cards either. Purchases are processed by the same companies (MC, VISA).

Yeah, again, it's not that other companies to get information from me. It's that Google wants all the information, makes all its money from the information, and explicitly will sell the information.

[addabox]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude Targeted advertising works much better if they know what you buy. And credit card companies and banks are 100000000 times scarier, more ruthless, and less ethical than Google. If anybody is going to let your data get in the wrong hands, it's the banks, not Google.

See above. And why should I accept that Google is more ethical than anyone in particular? Because they have a lot of engineers and that makes my inner geek feel warm and fuzzy? Recall Eric Schmidt's remark: "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place." Google's response to the Buzz rollout fiasco was basically "Yeah, we could have done that better, but involuntary linking of your information is how the world works now, so whadda you going do?"

Google seems to see every problem as an engineering problem and things like privacy concerns as the quaint obsession of people who don't "get it." I found that barely tolerable when they were just a search engine company. It's fucking horrible if they plan to be the center of everyone's digital life.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by addabox Again, I'm not "paranoid" about Google-- their business model is there for all to see. And it has nothing to do with aspirations of world domination, it has to do with privacy. And leaving aside the editorializing language in the question above, you're asking what's the difference between giving a company money and giving them personal information that they can sell. I think the difference is self evident.

Their privacy policy is extremely transparent. If you don't want to get targeted ads, opt-out or disable cookies. And stop using their free services.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by addabox Yeah, again, it's not that other companies to get information from me. It's that Google wants all the information, makes all its money from the information, and explicitly will sell the information.

I understand this, I was adding onto the previous post is all. I posted later about information being power.

[noone]

I think these days you almost have to be paranoid - or decide to live by the principle.

Where is the guarantee that those who have the data won't find a reason to use them against you?

My personal view is that given enough information about anybody you can make them look suspicious. Borrowed a book about Lenin lately? You say it is because you believe in "know thy enemy", others might conclude it is because you are a closet communist; and once that gets onto your - widely available -personal records ...

My advice: live by the precept "Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean 'they' aren't out to get you" - and keep Google and others like them as far away from information about you as you can. Ah, will this attitude of mine now find its way into Google's all-embracing databases with the rider "why does this man not want us know all about him, what has he got to hide ...?")



P.S: How long until the fact that you switched off your mobile raises suspicions about what you are up to?

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by noone Where is the guarantee that those who have the data won't find a reason to use them against you?

Laws?

My advice: live by the precept "Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean 'they' aren't out to get you" - and keep Google and others like them as far away from information about you as you can. Ah, will this attitude of mine now find its way into Google's all-embracing databases with the rider "why does this man not want us know all about him, what has he got to hide ...?") P.S: How long until the fact that you switched off your mobile raises suspicions about what you are up to?

My question is why do you single out Google? They're not the only one out there with your information. Banks, credit cards, IRS, etc. All these have much more critical information that "evil doers" could use against you. I doubt anyone really cares if you've been searching for Miley Cyrus or for the location of that new Italian restaraunt that opened up in your neighborhood.

[nikstar101]

I knew i should have named this thread: Google the Evil Doers of the world!

So attempting to bring this back onto the TV theme, why do you think Google have got this idea in mind? I mean they don't have a streaming service, so they cannot provide the content. Therefore it will either have to use other peoples content or connect to a cable/satellite box or aerial. In which case how do they add in any adverts?

Or maybe it is a long term view that someday, TV will be broadcast of the net, and therefore Google can provide the adverts for the networks??

[ezkcdude]

Google TV >>> Apple TV? I think so.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/04/s...anyway-at-ifa/

http://gizmodo.com/5630285/a-beta-te...logitech-revue

[Maciej]

I'd agree, at least from what I've seen with that Google TV enabled Sony TV. However, now more than ever, I'm beginning to think they're really different products.

Too bad I can't watch Gizmodo's shitty video on my iPhone because they're cock-gobblers.

[ezkcdude]

The second video is sort of a demo/review of the Logitech Revue. I didn't realize this, but it comes with a wireless keyboard(!).

[nikstar101]

A much as i am not a fan of Google i really do think they have understood what people want out of TV over Apple. I think people want more choice and less restriction which is what Google have produced here. It looks like a system where you can access TV from any source, NAS, computer, the internet, terrestrial TV etc

Where Apple has restricted AppleTV to iTunes or Netflix. Now being in the UK where Netflix isn't available i only have the choice of iTunes.

I think Apple need to be a little braver and allow access to BBC iPlayer and Hulu and all that. At this point it looks like the Google behemoth is working its way into TV.