[Gizzer]

It's a given (as Apple/Steve have actually said so) that all new Apple hardware will soon move to LED backlit LCD's. The first most likely candidate being an updated Macbook Pro.

This being the case, are we to experience a new type of quality control issue? At the moment all flat panel users have to contend with the potentially dreaded Dead Pixel Syndrome. I'm not entirely sure how the LED panels illuminate, but assuming its a matrix of LED's behind the LCD display, could we soon be seeing cases of Dead LED Syndrome? Your screen has no dead pixels but instead it has dead LED's? Would the result be a blotchy screen?

My experience of LED's is that whenever you see them in a large array there's nearly always a couple of dead ones!!

I have to say that this would worry me. Some manufacturers still cling to the "5 dead pixels are acceptable" line of thought. Would the same apply to dead LED's?

Does somebody here know anything different about LED backlit panels?

More importantly - if my understanding is correct who is going to be happy to buy the first gen of this product?!!!

Your thoughts please......

(Apologies for the gratuitous use of ????'s but I have more questions than answers!!)

[kretara]

I'll give the LED's a few generations before I try them out.
Early adopters = beta testers

[jcoley2]

I was thinking yes as my 3 year old Powerbook G4 is getting too slow. . . but maybe I should be rethinking this strategy.

[Fran441]

I always see people saying that they won't buy a first generation product because they don't want to deal with any problems that might pop up.

But my last two Macs, my Pismo PowerBook G3/500 and my Titanium PowerBook G4/1 GHz were the *last* generation of those products and still had major problems. I wouldn't hold out for a second revision because of problems that may or may not exist. Instead, just make sure you get AppleCare.

[cosus]

In general, aren't LEDs a very reliable light source?

[Gizzer]

Originally Posted by Fran441 I always see people saying that they won't buy a first generation product because they don't want to deal with any problems that might pop up.

...Yeah. This forum has plenty of that (for info - I bought a 1st gen iMac G5 within 24hrs of it's introduction). BUT this struck me as being an all-new technology and hence my apprehension. What is Apple's normal stance with dead pixels?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Gizzer At the moment all flat panel users have to contend with the potentially dreaded Dead Pixel Syndrome. I'm not entirely sure how the LED panels illuminate, but assuming its a matrix of LED's behind the LCD display,

Er.

The panels will continue to be TFT-based LCDs. The backlighting is what's changing, namely from CCFL to LED.

This will have no effect on dead pixels; those will happen just as much (or little) as before.

[Gizzer]

Originally Posted by cosus In general, aren't LEDs a very reliable light source?

They are always marketed as being so, but having said that, just pop into your local DIY/home improvement store and look at the lighting department. There's a huge trend for LED enhanced lighting at the moment & I bet you that at least two or more lamps on display will have faulty LED's. And that's just in one store....

In the UK, most new traffic lights are moving to LED. Again - it's not unusual to see at least one dead LED.

I'm not trying to spread any FUD, but it's seems to me that LED's aren't as reliable as everyone tries to make out.

[Skaffen]

Originally Posted by chucker Er. The panels will continue to be TFT-based LCDs. The backlighting is what's changing, namely from CCFL to LED. This will have no effect on dead pixels; those will happen just as much (or little) as before.

I think Gizzer realises that, his concern is what if one of the LEDs goes, and then you'd have a darker area on the screen with a dead LED behind it. I don't think that's too much of a concern as LEDs tend to be more reliable than CCFL anyway, but I think it's a valid question.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Skaffen I think Gizzer realises that, his concern is what if one of the LEDs goes, and then you'd have a darker area on the screen with a dead LED behind it.

Ah. My confusion lies with the use of "LED panels". The panels continue to be LCD-based.

I don't think that's too much of a concern as LEDs tend to be more reliable than CCFL anyway, but I think it's a valid question.

It sure is, yes.

[alcimedes]

They're probably intended to have overlap so that losing one won't matter.

[Gizzer]

Originally Posted by chucker Er. The panels will continue to be TFT-based LCDs. The backlighting is what's changing, namely from CCFL to LED. This will have no effect on dead pixels; those will happen just as much (or little) as before.

I think you misunderstood my query. I'm not talking about dead pixels, I'm talking about dead LED's in the LED backlight. I am assuming that the new backlights use some sort of LED array (ie a matrix of several LED's). These would be susceptible to dying in much the same way that LCD pixels die.

*EDIT* - What Skaffen said

Originally Posted by alcimedes They're probably intended to have overlap so that losing one won't matter.

That would be a good solution. I hope that's what happens...

[psmith2.0]

I'll buy one, sure. My iMac DV and current PowerBook were "Rev A." models of each line (the 12" and 17" aluminum PowerBooks had been out for nine or so months, but still...the 15" in that new design was a first-timer, and I bought one about a month after they were unveiled).

And since that was October 2003, this thing is showing its age a bit in some areas. So I'll probably have a new Mac before Halloween of this year. I might push this to a full four years. Basically I'm waiting on the next rev of the MacBook.

[rasmits]

Would the iMac DV really be "Rev A"? I'd think the only Rev A iMac G3 would be the 233 mhz Bondi.

Anyway, after my experience with Rev A iMac G5s and my friends' experiences with their Rev A MacBooks (After I implored them each to buy one ), I'm not going to be trusting Rev A machines anymore.

However, something like a LED display, where the only thing really changing is the backlight, doesn't concern me too much. I've had nothing but good experiences with Apple displays; not a single dead pixel, not a single faulty backlight.

[admactanium]

Originally Posted by Gizzer They are always marketed as being so, but having said that, just pop into your local DIY/home improvement store and look at the lighting department. There's a huge trend for LED enhanced lighting at the moment & I bet you that at least two or more lamps on display will have faulty LED's. And that's just in one store.... In the UK, most new traffic lights are moving to LED. Again - it's not unusual to see at least one dead LED. I'm not trying to spread any FUD, but it's seems to me that LED's aren't as reliable as everyone tries to make out.

that's very odd. we have lots of led traffic lights here and i don't recall seeing one led cell out. i have led brake lights on my car and one of my motorcycles and they work fine. none of them are burned out. i think most likely when you see dead led's it's the interconnects that are bad rather than the led itself. i'd hope apple would take more care in soldering their led's than the makers of some terrible high school football scoreboards.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by rasmits Would the iMac DV really be "Rev A"? I'd think the only Rev A iMac G3 would be the 233 mhz Bondi. Anyway, after my experience with Rev A iMac G5s and my friends' experiences with their Rev A MacBooks (After I implored them each to buy one ), I'm not going to be trusting Rev A machines anymore.

Yeah, I guess the DV iMacs do get called "Rev. E" (same processor, same basic jellybean design, etc.). However, it did deviate from the tray-loading jellybeans in quite a few ways:

- New slot-loading DVD drive
- New speaker/audio system
- Shorter/stubbier body, front-to-back
- Glossier plastic shell (colors looked "wetter" and more vibrant)
- No metal shielding...you could see all the way into the things
- FireWire added (iMovie was first on the iMac DV)
- RAM access via trap door (don't have to disassemble entire iMac to add RAM)
- AirPort capability (card slot located in same trap door as RAM slots)

So yeah, "Rev. E" of the G3 iMac jellybean design, but "Rev. A" of the slot-loading, FireWire/AirPort-equipped, slightly redesigned body, easier-RAM-access DV models.

And, yes, I know that's not official, or "right". That's just the way I always viewed them (two separate lines...alike, but different). I always viewed my little tangerine iMac DV as a "rev. A", since it was so different (in all the above ways) from the Rev. A bondi and Rev. C grape iMacs two of my buddies had.

[rasmits]

I guess the iMac DV was a bit like the iSight iMac G5. I forgot the DV rev brought all that new stuff.

[Hobbes]

I am. Been waiting to get a MBP for some time now, and improved battery life from a LED-backlit screen + Santa Rosa + Robson is the icing on the cake.

Ideally, I was hoping to get one bundled with Leopard and the new iLife, but I don't know if I can hold off 'til October.

[Doxxic]

I've got a photocamera as well as a PowerBook from 2003, which I both hope to have turned into little piles of dust every morning I wake up, so I have a reason to upgrade. But both are tough as hell and I'm not.

[Chinney]

Just as a side question - is it a given that LED will involve lower power usage than the current backlight source?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Hobbes I am. Been waiting to get a MBP for some time now, and improved battery life from a LED-backlit screen + Santa Rosa + Robson is the icing on the cake.

While it's rumored that Apple will use Robson, there's no guarantee at this point. Thus far, Mac OS X has no support for booting off an encrypted cache, and it seems to me like something they might not add until 10.5. Just sayin'.

[rasmits]

Originally Posted by Hobbes I am. Been waiting to get a MBP for some time now, and improved battery life from a LED-backlit screen + Santa Rosa + Robson is the icing on the cake.

Is Robson really going to be used in the next MBP? It sounds like it'll need support from OS X and I don't think that would happen in a free Tiger update. It'd probably make a good "top secret" feature of Leopard. (even though Vista fully supports it already)

edit: Beaten by Chucker.

[dmegatool]

So MBP will be updated soon and right after Leopard ? If they aren't updated after leopard, Apple we be like 6-7 months behind the competitors.

[Hobbes]

Originally Posted by chucker While it's rumored that Apple will use Robson, there's no guarantee at this point. Thus far, Mac OS X has no support for booting off an encrypted cache, and it seems to me like something they might not add until 10.5. Just sayin'.

That's true, though it's something they could certainly squeeze into a custom flavor of 10.4.9.x. Guess we'll see.

Chinney - yes, LED-backlit screens reportedly provide better color saturation, are brighter, can be made thinner, and draw slightly less power.

[spikeh]

Originally Posted by Gizzer It's a given (as Apple/Steve have actually said so) that all new Apple hardware will soon move to LED backlit LCD's. The first most likely candidate being an updated Macbook Pro. This being the case, are we to experience a new type of quality control issue?

Absolutely. I'm not buying Rev. A Apple again.

Originally Posted by kretara I'll give the LED's a few generations before I try them out. Early adopters = beta testers

Amen.

Originally Posted by cosus In general, aren't LEDs a very reliable light source?

Yes, but lithium ion is a very reliable means of delivering power to your laptop - a lot of things can go wrong. When a system or component is paired with another, double the chances of it going wrong. Then do that for every system or component in a computer. A lot of things can go wrong.

[AWR]

I will get the next MacBook release (the orange one!! ) regardless of whether it has an LED backlit screen. So yes, I am prepared to buy a 1st generation machine with this feature.

In fact, I hope it has this feature. What I "worry " about more is getting a nice new MacBook without the LED sceen and three months later an update is released with it. Logic and anecdote seem to say that first revs have more problems, and of course I think about it. But as the reasoning goes, I'll need the computer at that point so I'll buy (and get AppleCare and keep my fingers crossed).