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Think Secret opens the MWSF floodgates (iLife, mini Mac, iWork, flash iPod)


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Think Secret opens the MWSF floodgates (iLife, mini Mac, iWork, flash iPod)
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2004-12-29, 16:47

Wow, you go out for the day and come back to find that the headless Mac is being reborn.

If Think Secret has nailed this, they will go down in Mac lore.
But I've been around long enough to know that Apple routinely leaks dis-information around this time to mask their true intentions (e.g. Columbus)

And a Headless iMac is a subject guaranteed to stir the pot on the Mac Web.

Just one thing to add: If this rumor's true, the eMac is dead. As in bye-bye, cancelled, was-nice-knowing-you dead. The eMac exists for schools, and the education market will jump on a sub-$500 Mac like you wouldn't believe.
  quote
Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2004-12-29, 16:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04BlackWRX
Since no one has brought this idea up yet what about using the myMac as a mini Server...
heh. I love it when people don't read the very thread they are posting in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrboy
By golly this fits the bill for that little NAS/Digital media device/iServer jobbie...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
Finally I could have my own music server...
  quote
Frank777
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2004-12-29, 16:52

I think he means networked as a poor man's Xserve.
Just occurred to me as well.
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-12-29, 16:59

That's a deal, Paul. haha, it wont happen but i hope it does, for the girl's sake.
  quote
Luca
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-12-29, 17:04

Pscates, just an FYI, the amount of VRAM has almost nothing to do with how expensive a video card is. You can actually get a 256 MB version of the Radeon 9200 - yeah, that's 8x as much VRAM as the eMac has, but it has the same slow graphics processor. The 256 MB 9200 is only a few dollars more than a 128 MB version, which itself is only a few bucks more than a 64 MB version. In fact, 64 MB video cards are becoming scarce; just about everything you would be able to buy comes with 128 MB. There are a few low-end cards with 64 MB, and a few high-end ones with 256 MB, but the vast majority have 128 MB. So, other than the fact that it's Apple we're talking about, 128 MB is not out of line for a consumer machine. It's pretty mainstream. Now, if that 128 MB of VRAM goes to something better than a GeForce FX5200, I would be surprised.

Hell, you can't even buy a 32 MB Radeon 9200 anywhere. The only 32 MB video cards I can find are PCI Radeon 7000s and GeForce 4MXs. A 128 MB Radeon 9200 costs around $45-50. So it's not a huge expense, as you can see.
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BuonRotto
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2004-12-29, 17:08

Well, I've posted this elsewhere, but I might as well add my official prognostication here too. I think this is akin to the speculated iServe/media center idea that's been thrown around for some time, but I don't think it will be a PVR, and I don't think it will let you watch TV on your Mac.

I think it will be a home theater component, but one that brings your iLife creations to your home theater. I think you will be able to network this to your Mac and deliver your iPhoto slideshows, your iMovies, your iDVD projects and your GarageBand tracks to your living room. I see it doing to homemade DVDs and picture CDs what the iPod did to homemade audio mix CDs (almost eliminate them for yourself at least), with less fuss and more elegance. It's sort of like AirTunes but for the rest of iLife and with the networking means to deliver this kind of content. Imagine using AVC/H.264/QT7 to stream over 802.11e or 802.11i but sending your content rather than receiving others' stuff.

I don't think Apple wants to get in the middle of the movie/DVD/TV business, at least so long as they don't have any real control over providing content. Maybe when it's feasible to have DVDs downloaded through the Apple Movie Store, but not now. Why repeat the problems that TiVO is having, and TiVO has done a great job just staying alive this long.

I still think Steve Jobs doesn't have any affinity to the idea of watching TV on your Mac, nor does he like the fundamental concepts of WebTV and the Media Center PC.

I'm probably completely wrong of course, but I just have my doubts about a $500 iMac mini doing everything including making eggs in the morning.
  quote
04BlackWRX
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2004-12-29, 17:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
heh. I love it when people don't read the very thread they are posting in.
Ok you got me I only read the first 2 pages (or more like skimmed till I got bored so in reality the headline is all I read) and then had that idea hit me after everyone else. Damn I hate having an attention span of 5 seconds......
  quote
Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-12-29, 17:14

New Product Matrix

Consumer

cMac $499

iBook $999
------------
Prosumer

iMac $1299
------------
Pro

PowerMac $1499

PowerBook $1599
  quote
MCQ
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2004-12-29, 17:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
Pscates, just an FYI, the amount of VRAM has almost nothing to do with how expensive a video card is. You can actually get a 256 MB version of the Radeon 9200 - yeah, that's 8x as much VRAM as the eMac has, but it has the same slow graphics processor. The 256 MB 9200 is only a few dollars more than a 128 MB version, which itself is only a few bucks more than a 64 MB version. In fact, 64 MB video cards are becoming scarce; just about everything you would be able to buy comes with 128 MB. There are a few low-end cards with 64 MB, and a few high-end ones with 256 MB, but the vast majority have 128 MB. So, other than the fact that it's Apple we're talking about, 128 MB is not out of line for a consumer machine. It's pretty mainstream. Now, if that 128 MB of VRAM goes to something better than a GeForce FX5200, I would be surprised.

Hell, you can't even buy a 32 MB Radeon 9200 anywhere. The only 32 MB video cards I can find are PCI Radeon 7000s and GeForce 4MXs. A 128 MB Radeon 9200 costs around $45-50. So it's not a huge expense, as you can see.
Right. But this is Apple we're talking about

You know they won't do 128MB. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't even do an FX5200. So surprise me Apple
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-12-29, 17:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
Pscates, just an FYI, the amount of VRAM has almost nothing to do with how expensive a video card is. You can actually get a 256 MB version of the Radeon 9200 - yeah, that's 8x as much VRAM as the eMac has, but it has the same slow graphics processor. The 256 MB 9200 is only a few dollars more than a 128 MB version, which itself is only a few bucks more than a 64 MB version. In fact, 64 MB video cards are becoming scarce; just about everything you would be able to buy comes with 128 MB. There are a few low-end cards with 64 MB, and a few high-end ones with 256 MB, but the vast majority have 128 MB. So, other than the fact that it's Apple we're talking about, 128 MB is not out of line for a consumer machine. It's pretty mainstream. Now, if that 128 MB of VRAM goes to something better than a GeForce FX5200, I would be surprised.

Hell, you can't even buy a 32 MB Radeon 9200 anywhere. The only 32 MB video cards I can find are PCI Radeon 7000s and GeForce 4MXs. A 128 MB Radeon 9200 costs around $45-50. So it's not a huge expense, as you can see.
I understand that. But you yourself say "it's Apple", which is kinda my point. Regardless of how much whatever costs, THEY aren't going to drop a 128MB graphics card into their $499 headless thing, and piss off everyone who owns an eMac, all three iMac G5s, an iBook (still at 32MB) and the 12" and 15" PowerBooks. And THREE of the stock G5 towers, for crying out loud!



That was what I was barking at Chris over. I know they COULD put it in there, money-wise and all. That wasn't my angle. But they'd get slaughtered by millions if they did.
  quote
psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
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2004-12-29, 17:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
Just one thing to add: If this rumor's true, the eMac is dead. As in bye-bye, cancelled, was-nice-knowing-you dead. The eMac exists for schools, and the education market will jump on a sub-$500 Mac like you wouldn't believe.
Yeah, where does that leave the eMac.

In my twisted mind, here's what I wish was the case: Think Secret got the PRODUCT right (description, etc.), but got the specs wrong.

This new little headless thing IS a 1.6GHz G5 (iMac G5 specs, including same ports, graphics, hard drive, etc.). And they're coming out with a reasonably priced matching widescreen 17" LCD to pair with it, for those interested. We all assumed the eMac was getting a redesign and moving to a G5, when actually it was THIS little box getting all those 1.6 G5s...



The eMac stays G4 and reverts to more of an "education only" item, like when it first came out.

Of course, it probably wouldn't be $499 at that point, would it (but it's always fun to dream and imagine)? Although, all I've heard for 18 months now is how the G5 is cheaper than the G4 and so on...is that true or not?

COULD a machine with entry level iMac G5 specs (1.6GHz G5, nVidia whatever, etc.) possibly get to that $500-600 neighborhood, if it didn't have a screen, SuperDrive, etc.?

  quote
hobbit.2
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: shire
 
2004-12-29, 18:10

My guess is that this new headless Mac, if it does exists, will actually be an eMac model. It will not replace or kill the current eMac but rather extend the eMac line.

I assume the current CRT eMac will be getting a G5, a slight case revision and hence be known as the "eMac G5" while this new Mac will be called either "eMac G4" or "eMac mini".
  quote
mama's left eye
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2004-12-29, 18:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
Just one thing to add: If this rumor's true, the eMac is dead. As in bye-bye, cancelled, was-nice-knowing-you dead. The eMac exists for schools, and the education market will jump on a sub-$500 Mac like you wouldn't believe.
I don't see why the eMac would be dead or that the schools would be so quick to jump on the rMac(rumor mac). The cheapest eMac is only $599 for education facilities. That includes no CD-ROM drive, which can can protect you from a lot of hassle from some kids trying to cause problems or just install software. If they want the next step up w/ the CD-ROM they can get a bundle of 8 for $5000(625 per unit).

That isn't much of a price difference at all, and you would get to keep the all-in-one form factor.
  quote
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2004-12-29, 19:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
Anyone willing to lay out $499 has already made that break or commitment in their head, and will follow through, and I feel confident are savvy enough to learn a new way. Heck, it's an EASIER way, once they put a few hours or days in.frustrated enough to spend $499 to "go Mac", then they'll get it.
Wrong. My friend Tyler bought an iBook, a $1500 investment and it totally turned him off to buying another Mac again. The iBook is fine for us, but PC users are used to more bang for the buck, and they demand it.

Like I said before, if this Mac is intended to switch PC users, it will fail. If the goal is to make Apple some coin, it might succeed.
  quote
Eugene
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2004-12-29, 19:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile
$499 is at the point that one could spend the money comfortably without feeling like they've made TOO much of a commitment. Especially considering the resale value of a Mac. At most, if someone makes the purchase and changes their mind, they lose $100 or so. I think it would be great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuonRotto
We live in an upside down world when people are willing to spend $250-300 US on an iPod but balk at a full-blown computer priced over $500.
The problem with this is how it's spent. $500 is a lot of money to experiment with. iPod buyers aren't experimenting. They know what they're getting into. They know it's the top of the line device in its class. There's nothing really complicated to learn in using it.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-12-29, 19:49

Is there even remotely a chance your friend Tyler is a dipshit?

I'm just kidding. What about it, specifically, didn't measure up for him? Everything? Honestly?

But again with the broad, sweeping statements...I know for a fact not all "PC users demand more bang for the buck". Many I know wouldn't know a bang OR a buck if it bit them on the ass. They simply just want their stuff to work, and not have to hassle with it constantly. Many I know have laid out money for cool-looking towers with ports on the front, two optical drives, a keyboard and mouse with buttons and shortcuts galore...there's no "bang for the buck" when everytime they go to do something, it's a complete C.F.

I probably know quite a few dipshits too, but that shouldn't mean they have to get cornholed on a daily basis by uncooperative computers. People can be boneheads...yeah, they SHOULDN'T be downloading silly stuff and opening strange attachments, but they do.



People lump everyone into one, across-the-board category, as if everyone is doing cutting-edge stuff, and pushing the envelope.

What didn't Tyler like? Did he perhaps underbuy? Was it not fast enough for him? Was it the hardware? Was it the OS? A combination? Specific software? Was he cranking by on 128MB RAM?
  quote
IonYz
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2004-12-29, 19:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
Hell, these ads would almost write themselves if Apple just got out of the way and went with it.
Yeah, maybe they are with those eMac, iMac, iBook, and PowerBook ads... I see which Apple division gets the larger advertising budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
You can also remove the keyboard (what, $1.42? )
Pfft, I wish it cost that much. Our replacement keyboard for my moms iBook cost like $130!

/* styling for my posts */
.intelligence {display: none;}
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2004-12-29, 19:57

Actually, the idea WILL work for people switching from PC to Mac for this reason: Most switchers are folks who use their PCs for web surfing, e-mail and word processing. These folks are not looking for blazing speed, they are looking for stability. Mac OS X will give them that, and they know it. A cheap, headless Mac will sell like nuts, especially if they can use their existing monitor.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-12-29, 20:12

Yeah. I never said this $499 is the end-all/be-all of computing. Graphics people, hardcore gamers and people doing 3D/animation don't need to be buying it. It's not for them, and no one here believes it is.

But we also know those kinds of folks aren't the only type of user out there.

People like my Mom and her friends, who are only surfing, chatting, e-mailing, writing and using their digital cameras/printing...what are they going to miss out on? Not much. They're NOT happy right now, with their current set-ups, I can promise you that.



They just haven't been keen on dropping $799-1899 for the privilege of "going Mac"...and having to fling out an otherwise fine monitor.

Just got my ear bent by one not 90 minutes ago, so...I feel pretty confident in this thing. If Apple does their part correctly. I told him about this rumor and his exact words to me:

"Man, bring it the **** on...I can't wait. And you'll help me get it going?".

Apparently, if he's going to spend $499 it's going to be for something different than what he's been fooling with. He said as much. He's completely fed up and willing to try an alternative.

He's seen my PowerBook. He's seen OS X, the iLife stuff, knows how stable/trouble-free my computer using life is, thinks iPhoto and iChat are amazing, etc. He thinks the Sherlock movie and airline components are the coolest things ever. And he's totally anxious to see if this Mac materializes. Apple will get one happy switcher out of this, I can pretty much guarantee that.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2004-12-29 at 20:28.
  quote
kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2004-12-29, 20:26

I am getting my ear bent everyday about the subject and I guarantee that the switchers are fed up and are looking for ANY alternative. They are NOT looking for high-end alternatives, but low-end alternatives that will keep them in touch and out of trouble.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Eugene
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2004-12-29, 20:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
What didn't Tyler like? Did he perhaps underbuy? Was it not fast enough for him? Was it the hardware? Was it the OS? A combination? Specific software? Was he cranking by on 128MB RAM?
Nope, he had max RAM. Aside from component breaking software updates, he likes OS X a lot. His work requires him to program for AIX and Linux. His beef was with the underpowered hardware.

Quote:
People like my Mom and her friends, who are only surfing, chatting, e-mailing, writing and using their digital cameras/printing...what are they going to miss out on? Not much. They're NOT happy right now, with their current set-ups, I can promise you that.
Yet these computer buyers are MORE likely to be duped by specs and bullet-points than savvy buyers. They can't pin down what they're unhappy with AND they're more likely to listen to the dipshit at CompUSA trying to earn commission.
  quote
mama's left eye
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2004-12-29, 20:49

Almost all of my family and friends w/ pcs have a bargain basement, integrated graphics, hunk of ugly plastic on their desk. It's always bogged down with spy/ad/virus crap and it seems like everytime I go to visit, they want me to make it run again. When they use my mac it is all oohs and aahhs. But the price tag stops the sale. The cheap pcs have eroded their confidence so much that they don't want to spend the extra $$$ for an Apple.

I can guarantee 2 families that would by a headless $500 mac almost immediatly after release. I think I would by one for my wife and maybe one for my parents.

The only people I know that don't fit this category are my gaming friends. Strangely enough, they are all electronics technicians that are trained to repair the hardware and software problems that pcs commonly have.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-12-29, 21:38

Well, the Truth Squad is hot on the case:

http://macosrumors.com/122904.php



Even dislocating their shoulder, patting themselves on the back for talking about this "in great detail over the past year". Only NOW is "the rest of the grapevine is beginning to catch up".



Good stuff. They wait until the end of the day to talk about this, and all the software/audio stuff everyone else has talked about for a couple of days now.
  quote
chung123
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
 
2004-12-29, 21:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuonRotto
Well, I've posted this elsewhere, but I might as well add my official prognostication here too. I think this is akin to the speculated iServe/media center idea that's been thrown around for some time,
I think it will be a home theater component, but one that brings your iLife creations to your home theater. I think you will be able to network this to your Mac and deliver your iPhoto slideshows, your iMovies, your iDVD projects and your GarageBand tracks to your living room. I see it doing to homemade DVDs and picture CDs what the iPod did to homemade audio mix CDs (almost eliminate them for yourself at least), with less fuss and more elegance. It's sort of like AirTunes but for the rest of iLife and with the networking means to deliver this kind of content. Imagine using AVC/H.264/QT7 to stream over 802.11e or 802.11i but sending your content rather than receiving others' stuff.
h

Hey...that's not a bad prediction..

Thinksecret says something about the ability of iMovie 5 to support HDV and 16:9.(which I doubt really...Final Cut maybe...but not iMovie...not yet.)

But say it is true...

It would be wicked if one can run out and get a High-Def camcorder---shoot and edit HD in iMovie 5 and then be able to play the finished high def movie via this Apple media center to your TV....it's pretty darn awesome...and would beat HD-DVD to market.
  quote
kcmac
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: kansas city, missouri
 
2004-12-29, 21:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama's left eye
The cheap pcs have eroded their confidence so much that they don't want to spend the extra $$$ for an Apple.
That is an interesting comment. I have heard this almost verbatim from people frustrated with their PC's. The Mac is unknown to them and they assume it will just be more of the same. Somehow they seem to have the knowledge that Macs are expensive however.
  quote
defaultmike
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Recife, Brazil
 
2004-12-29, 23:16

It'll look similar to the XServes from what I got/thought. I think Apple will make some profit here. The processor is rummored to be a 1.25GHz G4, so it's nothing out of the ordinary. This new "imac" is pretty much an eMac sans screen. and even if their profit margins are razor thing, I think the purpose of this machine is to make iPod users switch.

Apple is probably realizing that it won't be able to maintain this much market share with the iPod for much longer (I love the iPod and think it'll always dominate the market, but even I don't think it'll always have 92% of the market). So, what they're doing is taking advantage of what would be the best moment for them to introduce a cheapo mac. And it's ther perfect moment because not only is the iPod at its all time high, but also, all other macs have gotten G5 processors, so the chance that a headless G4 will canibalize iMac sales (and eMac if it continues to exist and gets a G5 processor as rumored) are very slim.
  quote
FFL
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2004-12-30, 00:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh
The only question that remains now is: How long will it take before so many people have these things that hackers start nailing the Mac platform!?
I'm still taking it with a grain of salt till I find out more, but.....
this afternoon I worked with a longtime client who still uses OS 9 and AOL. He said that AOL had told him his AOL account had been hijacked by a "new" version of the Sobig worm.

Apparently, he got a "phishing" email purporting to be from AOL. He opened it but did not click on any links. Soon thereafter, he noticed his "sent" email screen adding a sent email every second or so, going to random addresses in alphabitical order. In other words, his AOL was turned into a spambot.

He contacted AOL and was put in touch with the Security department. Despite his repeated statements that "Macs don't get viruses", he was told that this is a very recent development (the last couple of days), that it only affects OS 9 Macs running AOL, and that he was one of a couple dozen Mac users reporting the problem.
  quote
Barto
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
 
2004-12-30, 02:25

There have been a few Mac classic viruses, it's not like they didn't/don't exist.
  quote
Hobbes
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2004-12-30, 03:35

I think this will be a simple low-end box, built expressly to reduce to perception that Macs are wildly expensive, and give frustrated Windows users (and starry-eyed iPod users) a much easier path to switch (or add) than ever. Not to mention education and enterprise customers not wild about dumping monitors, and the issues involved with all-in-ones...

The real question on my mind, though, is the delicate issue Apple has been dancing around for years: can they afford to step into MS Office's territory? This is, in my view, a far understated, and major obstacle to people switching over -- people need it, or think they do, and it adds another $400 to the cost. Repeat: $400..

Now Office is important to Apple in both perception and reality, so perhaps they can't compete directly, but I can't think of a better time to introduce a completely revamped AppleWorks, iWorks, whatever, a suite that glows with a luscious Apple UI, and compatibility good enough that it works just fine as an Office replacement for a majority of home users.

If they can do this -- if they've been working on such a project for the past 2-3 years, instead of twiddling their thumbs and letting AppleWorks fall into disrepair for no reason -- I think they've played all their cards beautifully, and it'll be a gamble well worth taking.

Last edited by Hobbes : 2004-12-30 at 03:43.
  quote
jph1971
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2004-12-30, 05:15

So, could this be another "pod"? - first and primarily dedicated to the cheapo-switcher but also usable as your icenter, thin-client etc.???

Also, would an airport extreme card be included (I would guess so, but since it´s apple and at this price point, who knows)?
  quote
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