[Windswept]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218699,00.html (Edit: link has now been updated by fox.)

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test Monday, Yonhap news agency reported, citing government officials. South Korean officials couldn't immediately confirm the report. South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun has convened a meeting of security advisers over the issue, Yonhap reported, and intelligence over the test has been exchanged between concerned countries. The North said last week it would conduct a nuclear test as part of its deterrent against a possible U.S. invasion. The director of South Korea's monitoring center that is watching for a test with sound and seismic detectors declined to immediately comment on the reported test. The U.S. Geological Survey said it had detected no seismic activity in North Korea, although it's not clear if a blast would be strong enough for its sensors.

So, did the test really occur or not, and if so, what repercussions would it have for the world?

[alcimedes]

Probably did occur, and I'd guess more than anything this will bump China from its wait and see position.

[World Leader Pretend]

Crap. What do you do now? Let the US play the "international cowboy" part and fight North Korea on behalf of other surrounding countries, or let it play out until Japan or China or South Korea gets nuked?

A Chinese invasion would probably draw the US and the UN into the action, then Iran might take sides with N. Korea. WWIII could be sparked from that type of kindling. Oil stops flowing out of the Middle East, and the western world is screwed. The question is, should the US get involved on the ground, or should we stick to the air and bomb the crap out of N. Korea? Should we just stay out of it altogether?

EDIT: Official

In Seoul a foreign ministry spokesman said South Korea's intelligence agency has detected a 3.58-magnitude seismic tremor, following North Korea's announcement of a nuclear test

[turtle]

N. Korea Says test was a success.

Seems it was real.

[Windswept]

North Korea's confirming the report.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/as....ap/index.html

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- North Korea's official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported Monday the country has performed a successful nuclear test.

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea said Monday it has performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test. The country's official Korean Central News Agency said the test was performed successfully and there was no radioactive leakage from the site. "The nuclear test is a historic event that brought happiness to the our military and people,"KCNA said. South Korea's Yonhap news agency said the test was conducted at 10:36 a.m. (9:36 p.m. EDT Sunday) in Hwaderi near Kilju city, citing defense officials.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Oct...uclear,00.html

Edit: I think it's really weird that it didn't show up on US seismographs.

I mean, how small could a nuclear test really be?

[faramirtook]

People were spamming the LFG channel with this news, in WoW.


Puts it down to a SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE kinda silliness, unfortunately.

[torifile]

Is it bad that my first reaction is "How will this affect the election?"

[World Leader Pretend]

Originally Posted by Windswept Edit: I think it's really weird that it didn't show up on US seismographs. I mean, how small could a nuclear test really be?

I think you would be surprised how small the original "gadget" that the US first detonated as part of the Manhattan Project was.

Little Boy, the first bomb dropped on Japan, was a 10 kiloton weapon.

The largest nuclear weapon detonated was the Tzar Bomba, roughly a 50 megaton weapon At detonation it put off roughly 1% of the sun's energy.

[billybobsky]

It shouldn't -- or if it does, this occurred on Bush's watch, the Iraq war has distracted us from real threats. NK has nuclear weapons. Iran is still preparing nuclear fuel (never mind the fact that they haven't made a weapon yet)... And we are waste deep in the shit hole of the other third of the axis of evil for what?

[Majost]

Originally Posted by faramirtook People were spamming the LFG channel with this news, in WoW. Puts it down to a SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE kinda silliness, unfortunately.

What!?! NOOO! I was almost to the end! How could he?

[jdcfsu]

I wouldn't believe anything N. Korea says, but unfortunately chances are this is true. I think alcimedes is correct, hopefully this will move China and Russia back into the game and possibly put some real pressure on the regime.

[drewprops]

"The nuclear test is a historic event that brought happiness to the our military and people,"KCNA said.

Oh yes, knowing that we have nuclear weapons makes me feel all warm and tingly inside.

Mostly from the fallout.

[World Leader Pretend]

USGS is reporting that the shock-wave was 4.3 on the scale- up from 3.6. Remember that with each step up on the scale the magnitude squares or something, so this was actually a pretty good-sized test.

[BlueRabbit]

Originally Posted by World Leader Pretend USGS is reporting that the shock-wave was 4.3 on the scale- up from 3.6. Remember that with each step up on the scale the magnitude squares or something, so this was actually a pretty good-sized test.

The Richter scale is logarithmic, so 4.3 would be about 5 times more powerful than 3.6.

[Banana]

Call me stupid, but exactly how is our nuclear weapons a secret? It's been around for decades and we're not exactly the only one with the knowledge.

I can't imagine that it requires a "Ingredient X" for it to work; it's all in logistics of properly guiding and detonating the bomb, right?

I guess I'm just not seeing how that is anything but expected, especially that you have all the basics of fission laid out in any college textbooks.

As for political ramifications, I suspect little will change. N. Korea is now one of "big boys", and get a bit respect from everyone else, and they eventually work out something that is to everyone's profit and look the other way. Pretty much what we have been doing with other nations that has nuclear weapons such as Ukraine, Pakistan, India to name few.

The talks of WWIII, or even a local nuclear war, is slightly ludicrous at best because 1) every states understand and operate by the golden rule: do unto them as you would them undo to you, 2) there is no gains to be had from bullying the little guy into kamikaze suicide or become a king of bones and skulls. Sure, they'll bellow and gesture frantically at their big red button, but at end of day, they'll work out something that everyone can live and go home. And if you have any doubts about "madmen beyond any reasons", we have our own madman but he is thankfully sane enough to not launch nuclear weapons willy-nilly at axis of evil.

Or am I being too optimistic?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Banana 1) every states understand and operate by the golden rule: do unto them as you would them undo to you, 2) there is no gains to be had from bullying the little guy into kamikaze suicide or become a king of bones and skulls.

Since when have either of these rules been accepted by the major nations of the world?

[Banana]

Those rules aren't hard and fast rules that you must obey or suffer the consequences; rather they're a statement of general pattern in world politics.

Even though they may act like a pack of ragamuffins fighting over a sand shovel, they have to follow some kind of rules in order to gain alliance or make trade or whatever to leverage their power and compensate their shortcomings. Of course, if they can get away breaking rules without getting caught, all the better.

*shrugs*

[thegelding]

mmmm, did we help NK in it's decision to test???

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15175633/site/newsweek/


i know kim is crazy, i sure don't want him with the bomb...but sometimes i think we do some wacky things diplomatically...

not that i would know what to do with kim...maybe send in team america

g

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Banana The talks of WWIII, or even a local nuclear war, is slightly ludicrous at best because 1) every states understand and operate by the golden rule: do unto them as you would them undo to you

You forgot part b of the rule that states operate by: "unless you can get away with screwing them."

I also think that WWIII is a stretch at this point, but I think it gets us one step closer.

[World Leader Pretend]

My concern is that North Korea is basically operated under the whims of Kim. I just finished writing an essay on Spain under Philip II, and how the country gave him complete control. He set off to make Europe Catholic, but really messed up along the way. That is the problem with a total ruler, they really have no one to tell them when they've gone too far.

Who knows how far Kim will go? Hopefully not anything worth mentioning 50 years from now...

[Jerman]

Great. I hope it is in fact true that the test was not nearly as successful as they were hoping for.

[Banana]

Originally Posted by Dave You forgot part b of the rule that states operate by: "unless you can get away with screwing them." I also think that WWIII is a stretch at this point, but I think it gets us one step closer.

That's true, but I don't see (or don't know) any reasons why Kim would want to have nuclear weapon other than to protect his sovereignty. I learned in history that Korea has to be very cautious because of their location; Japan to southeast, China to southwest and Russia/Mongol to northwest, and has been dominated by one of those in various points of history. Thus, I don't blame Kim for feeling compelled to develop nuclear weapons to protect his sovereignty. But I can't picture him going at China all out, to settle a old score, or to get gold from China or whatever.

As to WLP's comment, remember what happened to Saddam. Just because nobody in the country led by a madman can stop the madman doesn't mean that the neighbor may decide to give the madman a boot. I'm reasonably sure that several intelligence from various countries will be keeping close tabs on Kim. After all, nobody really wants nuclear war, regardless how awesome™ their weapon may be.

[alcimedes]

My more pressing concern is the fact that N. Korea is broke as shit, and there are a lot of people who would pay good money for a proven, working nuclear weapon.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by Dave I also think that WWIII is a stretch at this point, but I think it gets us one step closer.

WWIII involving whom? North Korea vs the entire world? That would be over pretty quickly.

China and the US should take turns nuking Pyongyang, I say.

[AWR]

Originally Posted by alcimedes My more pressing concern is the fact that N. Korea is broke as shit, and there are a lot of people who would pay good money for a proven, working nuclear weapon.

That's a very important point.

We're all going to hell in a handbasket.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by alcimedes My more pressing concern is the fact that N. Korea is broke as shit, and there are a lot of people who would pay good money for a proven, working nuclear weapon.

Wow...I just got a lot more scared.

[Fahrenheit]

I don't want to be on a battlefield with an army this disciplined. They arent gonna give up too easy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9eyZOo_SS...elated&search=

Omg.



PS:

HARRO!

Also, catch up on the whole situation, if, like me, you aren't quite familiar with what is happening in Korea: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...&q=north+korea

[AWR]

Originally Posted by Farenheit I don't want to be on a battlefield with an army this disciplined. They arent gonna give up too easy http://youtube.com/watch?v=9eyZOo_SS...elated&search= Omg.

They've got plenty of things to negate that type of goose-steping attitude on a battlefield. Especially effective (and cheap) is the "Daisy Cutter":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82

[thegeriatric]

I suppose this was inevitable. One day we may well destroy the world.

But hopefully not just yet.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Banana Thus, I don't blame Kim for feeling compelled to develop nuclear weapons to protect his sovereignty.

Which has, of course, been proven time and again to be a fallacy.

Originally Posted by alcimedes My more pressing concern is the fact that N. Korea is broke as shit, and there are a lot of people who would pay good money for a proven, working nuclear weapon.

That sounds more like it indeed.