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Apple to unleash Pro App "Big Bang"


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Apple to unleash Pro App "Big Bang"
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hmurchison
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2005-03-16, 17:54

12 mother funkin new apps are coming at NAB 2005

I've had to eat crow over the supposed Protools Killer not coming. Maybe this is my chance at redemption.

There was a poster here that stated Apple was buying Final Touch HD the color correction system. Could that be the new Pro Video app?

Hmmm let's see what can be updated.

Final Cut Pro - Of course
Livetype- Sure
Soundtrack- Likely
Motion- Sure
Compressor-Guaranteed
Shake- Likely
DVD Studio Pro- Likely
Logic Pro- Perhaps
Logic Express- Perhaps
Cinema Tools- Sure

Protools Killer- 64bit Multitrack editor that is Tiger only- Dream
Final Touch HD- Finesse, Color Correction and Power- Unlikely but welcome.

They could do it. This will make for an outstanding NAB 2005. Apple you are impressing me here. Don't hurt'em!

omgwtfbbq
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FallenFromTheTree
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2005-03-16, 18:24

h,

I think that's "Big Band"
er a

"ProBand" (just maybe:-)
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hmurchison
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2005-03-16, 18:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFromTheTree
h,

I think that's "Big Band"
er a

"ProBand" (just maybe:-)

Yeah I just remembered ProBand. I could see Apple naming it that as they've already trademarked the name. It's kind of a play on "Pro Tools"
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Bryson
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2005-03-16, 19:14

I could see that as a reasonable name - half Garageband, Half Pro Tools. What does that mean for Logic Pro sales though? There's certainly crossover there.

A colour correction program for the FCP suite would be marvellous. Final Touch is a truly excellent name. Who makes that at the moment?
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yoda_four
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2005-03-16, 19:23

Silicon Color currently owns Final Touch HD. Maybe, maybe this is the new app for August but I really can't see Apple releasing it with Final Cut or the Pro Suite already. The app was just released at Macworld! And besides, Silicon Color's homepage says "Come see what all the buzz is about! Silicon Color will be demonstrating FinalTouch 2K and FinalTouch HD at NAB 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada
April 16-21". It just doesn't look possible to mean, not at this point.
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MCQ
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2005-03-16, 19:28

All I know is it should be a very nice Fiscal 3Q for Apple in terms of software revenues, with Tiger + whatever Digital Sound/Video apps are released at NAB.
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yoda_four
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2005-03-16, 19:29

According to hmurchison's list, even with Logic, that's only 10 apps. Considering TS is saying "12 apps" with "at least one new one at NAB" and "another for Aug.", I could definitely see this happening: Updates to all, or almost all, pro apps (Logic not yet) and 2 new apps for NAB. New Pro Suite by August to line up with the other new app (similar to last year's Motion + Pro Suite).

With that Quad X-Station, 40" Cinema Displays, completely new pro apps and revisions, and Tiger; it's looking like this is really the Pro's "Year of HD".
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Moogs
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2005-03-16, 20:04

If they update the studio (DVDSP and Motion namely in my case), that will be very sweet indeed. FCP already does far more than I could ever do with it so that's not as big a deal to me.

But what I'd LOVE to see is an Express Suite (probably with some of these new apps). How about:

Final Cut Express 3
DVD Studio Express
Motion
Logic Express

That would kick some serious ass.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Bryson
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2005-03-16, 20:41

But FCE is on 4.0 or HD already, is that what you meant?
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micmoo
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2005-03-16, 20:42

The thing i find interesting in FCP 5 is Core video support. Suposedly the realtime stuff is going to be more Motion like... almost no render at all on new hardware.
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Bryson
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2005-03-16, 20:47

I also wonder if this round of new Pro products will add dongle protection to the lot, a la Logic Pro? Anyone heard any grumblings of that nature? It would seem to make sense for them to share an XSkey (spelling?)

PS, being a powerbook user, I hate dongle protection. I only have 2 USB ports, for pete's sake! Now you want me to fill up one of them? You buggers.
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hmurchison
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2005-03-16, 20:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs
If they update the studio (DVDSP and Motion namely in my case), that will be very sweet indeed. FCP already does far more than I could ever do with it so that's not as big a deal to me.

But what I'd LOVE to see is an Express Suite (probably with some of these new apps). How about:

Final Cut Express 3
DVD Studio Express
Motion
Logic Express

That would kick some serious ass.
Yes it would! And it'd be highly functional as well.

Let's say Apple does release ProBand and it's a new 64bit Audio app with midi functionality. Well that would signal the death knell for Logic Pro. It's no secret that the Logic codebase is Ooooold. Apple would likely start a migration program to get Logic users over to the new app.

Bryson- Final Cut Pro still needs HDV support. They do currently support other flavors of HD codecs.

FCP 5 should be nice. My short list of features.

Core Image/Video support
QT7 support
Better AU plugin support
Multicam
Background Rendering
Xgrid- Qmaster technology.
HDV Support
Improved Media Manager-Spotlight enabled

omgwtfbbq
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Bryson
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2005-03-16, 21:07

What I actually meant is that Final Cut Express is on Version 4 already, so a suite with Express 3.0 is unlikely.
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micmoo
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2005-03-16, 21:17

hmurchison, would background rendering allow you to keep working on edits, while FCP renders other parts of your timeline while you work? Doesnt it wait now until you invoke a final render to apply everything? (forgive me, i live mostly in the print world) =)
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Jay
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2005-03-16, 21:19

I would love to see some distributed rendering in FCP. I was working on a project recently that was 9 min long but it took my 1 GHz Powerbook over 25 hours to render, even if I had a dual 2 GHz G5 it would still be 3 - 4 hours. I would have loved to rope in a few more machines for the task.

Also FCE is only at 3.0 now, we have had FCE 1.0, FCE 2.0 and FCE HD, so an Express Production Suite would include FCE HD (3.0) unless they were to update it before bundling it which won't happen at this year's NAB.
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Moogs
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2005-03-16, 21:27

Sorry Bryson, I don't know why I typed FCE 3 (which is FCE HD, available now)... I meant a 4th version to keep pace with whatever advances are brough to FCP 5 (or left behind from FCP 4 might be a better way to say it).

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Jay
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2005-03-16, 21:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by micmoo
hmurchison, would background rendering allow you to keep working on edits, while FCP renders other parts of your timeline while you work? Doesnt it wait now until you invoke a final render to apply everything? (forgive me, i live mostly in the print world) =)
You are basically correct. Somethings can be done in real time but still has to be rendered for the final print, others have to be rendered no matter how fast the computer is, color correction and chroma key comes to mind but that might be real time on G5's. Basically I thinks he wants it to render while he is working, where now it hogs the whole program with one box and you really can't do anything in FCP/E while it renders.

The only problem with this is there is a huge performance hit and I don't know how well they can balance rendering vs GUI snappiness. I know on some projects just moving around with out anything rendering is sluggish but I'm only on a PowerBook and a dual processor machine should handle it significantly better.
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hmurchison
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2005-03-16, 21:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by micmoo
hmurchison, would background rendering allow you to keep working on edits, while FCP renders other parts of your timeline while you work? Doesnt it wait now until you invoke a final render to apply everything? (forgive me, i live mostly in the print world) =)

Yup micmoo that's exactly what it would do. Thus anything that couldn't be applied immediately via Core Video could be rendered "while you work" thus I expect FCP 5, if it has this feature, to be popular for dual proc systems.

Background rendering was a Top 10 feature requested by the Los Angeles Final Cut Pro User Group(LAFCPUG)

Sorry Jay...I just noticed you answered this question beforehand. Man I'm really interested to see if Apple debuts another audio app. They already have so many that I just can't see them moving forward with older codebase if they have a new sparkly app that really takes advantage of OSX and Core Audio.

omgwtfbbq
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micmoo
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2005-03-16, 22:58

I watched some crazy Motion stuff at the Apple store last week. some video pro's were hanging out on the dual 2.5 using Motion and HD files, I may be wrong but i didnt see a thing render, even when they saved/rendered final it looked like it was just saving a big file. Is motion trully a no render app on fast machines? Could FCP act like Motion (speed wise) if it goes Core video?
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DrGruv
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2005-03-16, 23:01

No way logic will go under... logic express maybe and proband would be an upgrade for the garageband people

Could Logic be this new protools killer?

Not unless coreaudio in tiger fixes crashing issues and audio unit capability..

- Michael Droste Itunes Link Stop By: TrumpetStudio.com or SaveThePlanetSong.org Some Main Gear: AT4050, Dual 1.8 G4, Logic, Waves Plat, Waves SSL, Tritone, URS, PSP, Zebra, BFD, RND, Sony Oxford, Altiverb...

Last edited by DrGruv : 2005-03-17 at 09:04.
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Bryson
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2005-03-17, 05:20

Of course...for some reason I though FC Express kept it's version numbers in sync with FCP....I'll crawl back under my rock now...

Perhaps they'll just amalgamate Logic and an proper HD recording softare package and call it "Proband Logic" or somesuch.

As for background rendering...well iMovie can already do it, surely it has to find it's way into FCP!
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agoldstraw
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2005-03-17, 10:44

In all honesty, what does Pro Tools now do that you can't presently achieve with Logic? OK, so you can't use TDM plugins, but there's little availale in TDM which doesn't have a reasonable equivalent in AU. Otherwise it's down to a preference in workflow and (arguably) better sound.

The main difference is that Pro-Tools uses dedicated hardware to reduce load on main CPUs. The fact that Apple is pushing distributed computing as the answer to that one in Logic Pro 7 (for those who really NEED such things) shows which way the wind is blowing.
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fucanay
 
 
2005-03-17, 12:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Protools Killer- 64bit Multitrack editor that is Tiger only- Dream
I think it's not likely to be 64bit, as it wouldn't run on G4 machines. Or am I wrong?

fucanay
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hmurchison
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2005-03-17, 12:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by fucanay
I think it's not likely to be 64bit, as it wouldn't run on G4 machines. Or am I wrong?

fucanay
Because Tiger has so many new core elements in Quicktime and Core Audio. I wouldn't be suprised if Apple makes any new DAW 10.4 required. It hasn't sunk in with the faithful yet about just how spiffy Tiger is "under the hood" the fallout will be some applications will be Tiger only.

omgwtfbbq
  quote
fucanay
 
 
2005-03-17, 13:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Because Tiger has so many new core elements in Quicktime and Core Audio. I wouldn't be suprised if Apple makes any new DAW 10.4 required. It hasn't sunk in with the faithful yet about just how spiffy Tiger is "under the hood" the fallout will be some applications will be Tiger only.
I understand making it Tiger only, but what about non 64 bit machines, like G4 Powerbooks, etc. Apple has a pretty good track record on releasing software that will run on a machine that is 3 years old or so. I know that people can run 32 bit apps on a 64 bit machine (G5), but the other way around isn't possible as far as I know.

fucanay
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hmurchison
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2005-03-17, 14:43

It would require a tad bit of extra work but Apple could simply recompile the app for 32 bit support. The way apps are packaged in OSX makes it easy to create versions for different computers. Hell 64 bit support is pretty much unecessary in most apps but it looks good on paper :smokey:

omgwtfbbq
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DrGruv
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2005-03-17, 14:59

10.4 - they have to make a 32bit version of osx for the MILLIONS of 32bit computers, my guess is that during the 10.4 install the 64bit machines would get different code...

- Michael Droste Itunes Link Stop By: TrumpetStudio.com or SaveThePlanetSong.org Some Main Gear: AT4050, Dual 1.8 G4, Logic, Waves Plat, Waves SSL, Tritone, URS, PSP, Zebra, BFD, RND, Sony Oxford, Altiverb...
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Mr Beardsley
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2005-03-17, 16:01

I'm pretty certain that it won't be 64 bit. Here's a quote from Apple about how 64 bit is supported in Tiger.

Quote:
The focus of Tiger's 64-bit support is to enable C and C++ applications that are most likely to benefit immediately from a larger address space. These include scientific data processing applications, rendering engines, and high load servers. These applications have naturally large data sets. Typically, these applications are faceless—meaning that they don't have a GUI—and are executed from the command line.

To meet this focus, Tiger will ship with a 64-bit version of libsystem—the system library implementing most of the fundamental UNIX APIs. In addition, a 64-bit PowerPC ABI, based on the 32-bit ABI, will be introduced. 64-bit binaries will be contained in an updated Mach-O format that will run on G5 systems with Tiger or later.

It is important to note that in the Tiger release, the support for 64-bit programming does not extend throughout the entire set of APIs available on Mac OS X. Most notably, the Cocoa and Carbon GUI application frameworks are not ready for 64-bit programming. In practical terms, this means that the "heavy lifting" of an application that needs 64-bit support can be done by a background process which communicates with a front-end 32-bit GUI process via a variety of mechanisms including IPC and shared memory.
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hmurchison
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2005-03-17, 16:36

Good catch Mr. Beardsley

64bit DAW is likely unecessary right now unless it somehow helps for processing plugins.
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RC23
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2005-03-17, 18:00

Geez, I really hope these 64bit apps have some kind of 32bit support cuz i just got my powerbook.
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