[Kickaha]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ler-in-us.html

Goodness. That's rather incredible when you think about it, even if it also seems rather inevitable at the same time.

[chucker]

That is indeed astonishing, but only confirms what I've been saying all along about physical media being on the way out.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

I like physical media. I don't understand why people would want to buy whole albums in lossy format. A song here and there? Sure, even I have bought songs here and there when I needed to learn them and didn't have a copy already, but my regular music purchases are still CDs.

[Brad]

I'm afraid you are of a dying breed, bassplayinMacFiend.

I wonder if CDs will even be available at many brick-and-mortar retailers in ten years.

[torifile]

Does this mean that Apple is the world's largest music retailer? I know the data is for the US market, but isn't the US market the largest (revenue-wise. I'm sure the China market is larger volume but we all know about piracy over there.)

[torifile]

Originally Posted by Brad I'm afraid you are of a dying breed, bassplayinMacFiend. I wonder if CDs will even be available at many brick-and-mortar retailers in ten years.

I'm like bassplayinmacfiend. I like my CDs. I've bought digital stuff before, but I prefer a CD. Then again, I don't buy crap and only go for whole albums.

[Robo]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but...

That data from January. You know...when everybody was using up iTunes gift cards, and trying out their brand new iPods from Christmas.

I think it was a sales spike. After all, it was just in February that Apple announced they had become the number two music retailer, right?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by torifile I'm like bassplayinmacfiend. I like my CDs. I've bought digital stuff before, but I prefer a CD. Then again, I don't buy crap and only go for whole albums.

I like CD audio too, but we're in the same situation as LP buyers were in the 1980s. Sure, CDs will probably continue to be available for audiophiles for many years to come if you know exactly where to look, but like records, they will be increasingly supplanted by digital files out of sheer convenience.

[zippy]

This relates somewhat, IMO, to a trend where people seem to rely more and more on their cell-phones for all their digital pictures. If they are comfortable with crappy pictures, then it's no surprise that they are comfortable with lossy audio that many people can't distinguish from CD-quality.

[Swox]

The reasons I buy my music form iTunes are: (a) Cheaper than a store; (b) Don't have to leave my apt.; (c) I don't have a good enough system to hear the difference between AAC's and CD's; and (d) CD's really don't sound that great anyway. When they start coming out with 24 bit audio DVD's, then I'll bite again. Once I can afford a killer audio setup, that is...

Most people simply don't care much about quality in recording or pictures, and to a degree, they have a point. A hit is a hit is a hit, no matter how poorly it's recorded. Same thing with a good picture - if your composition and subject matter are pleasing, the quality only matters to specialists. The average person isn't trained to notice the difference, and doesn't care to know it either. Then again, most people just have no taste.

[SKMDC]

Originally Posted by Brad I like CD audio too, but we're in the same situation as LP buyers were in the 1980s. Sure, CDs will probably continue to be available for audiophiles for many years to come if you know exactly where to look, but like records, they will be increasingly supplanted by digital files out of sheer convenience.

I bought two LPs (phonograph records, wax, vinyl) yesterday, one at Best Buy believe it or not.

[Kickaha]

Yeah, vinyl is making a small but steady comeback. I don't know how long it will last, but it's cool to see.

'Perfect' recording, the only downsides being a) non-permanence of material, b) need to rip to play on any modern piece of equipment.

If LPs were made of sturdier stuff, and an inexpensive playback -> digital unit were produced, I could see them making a not-so-small comeback. Never going to supplant digital, but they'd make a nice 'forever backup!' item.

Hmm. How much for an LP press?

Edit: STOP THE PRESSES

Apparently, Apple *had* the #1 spot briefly in Jan, then slipped back to a close #2 in Feb after the Xmas rush of iTMS gift cards and new iPod owners settled down.

Still. Woah?

[ghoti]

Despite their "come-back," LPs are still a niche product, and will remain that.

The thing with digital media is that it doesn't matter what kind of disk you put the data on. Download doesn't mean it has to be lossy (see the recent Nine Inch Nails album), and in contrast to CDs, you can crank up the sample rate and/or bit depth if you really want to get fancy. So CDs are much easier to replace than LPs were, and I actually think that LPs will play a bigger role in ten years than CDs.

Not that it would concern me - I'd take an iPod over a record player with high-end tube amp any day -, but it's the difference between analog and digital, not the physical media that makes LPs attractive.

[psmith2.0]

The times they are a-changin'...

[Kickaha]

Yeah, ghoti, I wasn't trying to say that I think LPs are going to be HUUUUUUUGE, just that I think they could (possibly) supplant CDs as the primary physical medium sold. For a digital copy, we have downloads now, so what do CDs really offer? Lossless? Some folks are playing with that in the online realm. Physical backup? Can do that with a CD-R, a backup drive, Mozy... more flexible than CDs.

LPs on the other hand offer a completely different resolution of signal, something that isn't going to be possible in the mainstream digital world anytime soon, just based on necessary bandwidth.

So if you think about it, digital downloads and LPs can coexist just fine, they offer two very different sets of benefits. Digital downloads and CDs though? CDs are going down, man.

[SKMDC]

I wasn't trying to claim albums were making a comeback, but it was interesting that Best Buy had an LP in stock, it was a "Best Buy Exclusive" as well. There were six on the rack. I picked one up, then went to walk around, got a DVD my wife wanted, then went to see if there were any new HK DVDs, came back to check out and walked by the rack and only one remained. It was just interesting was all.

As for CDs I bought the Stones, R.E.M. and George Michael, which is really unusual, but Stones and R.E.M. are things I've always bought hard copies of. It's funny because I have things I always get digitally as well, they are usually a group or an act that I initially got digitally, like White Stripes, Death Cab, or Arcade Fire. It's funny, I just realized I do that.

You know that's an Idea, include a digital download with vinyl, I've never found CDs to be a satisfying format for a variety of non audio reasons as well as certain audio reasons, but let's be real, a lot of vinyl sounds like crap too.

I think the LP format with it's 20 minute sides presented an ideal way of listening to music, it's easier to focus on something for twenty minutes.

As for digital downloads I will always make sure it's iTunes Plus or I head to Amazon, because there I have a choice and I think Apple is dragging it's heals here. I can't see Apple sustaining any dominance in the "Record Business" until they address the download size gap. I hate Amazon's "store" but it's better quality and an easy download, (once you navigate through the awful store) and they are going to take more and more customers away from iTMS.

[Kickaha]

Hmm, just had a thought based on your mention of 20-min sides.

HDLPs. Not high def, but high density. We're pretty frickin' good at working with much smaller structures than the grooves in vinyl, so why not leverage those to mass produce physical recordings with stupidly small grooves that are read back by laser?

Yes, I realize that I'm describing, in many ways, a CD. Deal with it.

The difference being... in this case the attenuation of the laser results in an analog signal, not a binary one. (Hmm, multiple wavelengths for multiple channels? Interestink...)

Something the size of a CD, with a protective coating like a CD, but an analog signal on analog equipment, and a quick and dirty analog -> digital converter for use with anything else. Hmm.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by Brad I like CD audio too, but we're in the same situation as LP buyers were in the 1980s. Sure, CDs will probably continue to be available for audiophiles for many years to come if you know exactly where to look, but like records, they will be increasingly supplanted by digital files out of sheer convenience.

Actually, we're not in the same situation. CDs were of a higher fidelity than LPs (not getting into analog vs. digital other than to say tubes amps are still alive and well in the bass amplification world). Today's music downloads are of a lower fidelity than CDs. Until the digital music stores offer lossless quality they won't receive more than the occasional 99 cent purchase from me (I've had to buy songs in order to learn them from time to time).

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend CDs were of a higher fidelity than LPs (not getting into analog vs. digital other than to say tubes amps are still alive and well in the bass amplification world).

Er... yesandno?

CDs gave everyone really good fidelity.

LPs gave those with extremely high end equipment *fantastic* fidelity, and those with low end equipment crappy fidelity.

What CDs did was equalize the fidelity across equipment - even a cheap-assed low-end CD player is *roughly* in the same ball park as an expensive one.

So for most people, it was better, but only because their LP system sucked.

Actually, I think I'd say that CDs were a larger delta of fidelity for those with low-end LP equipment than they are over digital downloads. So the downloads are almost certainly going to win... the quality isn't *that* much less, and they're more convenient.

It'll take a huge leap in fidelity, along with an equalization across equipment, to provide a physical medium that will survive in that market. Kinda like the mythical HDLP.

[SKMDC]

You ever watch a parade and when the marching band goes by and the drums and the lower end effect you physically, you know in your chest? I have had that recreated with vinyl, but never a CD.

I think I like the sound (of MP3s) coming out of my computer with my JBL's (using iWOW) than compact disc coming out of my Hi-Fi.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Kickaha http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ler-in-us.html Goodness. That's rather incredible when you think about it, even if it also seems rather inevitable at the same time.

That was only for the month of January, it fell back into second place in February according to another article I read.

[Kickaha]

Yes, scroll down half a page to where it says STOP THE PRESSES.

[PB PM]

I must be blind because I don't see it in that article...

[Kickaha]

It isn't - I didn't offer a link to the followup. You wanna?

[PB PM]

Of course.

[Dorian Gray]

I still buy plenty of new music on vinyl. I have some albums on both vinyl and CD, and the vinyl usually sounds better for at least one very important reason: the effective dynamic range is greater, due to the annoying loudness war that has compromised CD audio quality, but physically can't be imposed on vinyl without causing the stylus to jump out of the groove. It's ironic that CD has a greater theoretical dynamic range, but hardly ever makes use of it in practice (some good classical recordings do however).

I have old vinyl from at least as far back as 1959, and it works perfectly (albeit without much high-frequency data, and with a few pops and crackles). I wouldn't bet $5 that any of my CDs will work in fifty years (I might have perfect digital copies of them though, if I'm careful).

It is indeed quite astonishing that Apple outsold Wal-Mart, however briefly. I guess it won't be long before Apple is indisputably the largest music seller in the world. Which is unbelievable considering how few people I personally know buy music online at all.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by SKMDC You ever watch a parade and when the marching band goes by and the drums and the lower end effect you physically, you know in your chest? I have had that recreated with vinyl, but never a CD. I think I like the sound (of MP3s) coming out of my computer with my JBL's (using iWOW) than compact disc coming out of my Hi-Fi.

If I want that chest thump, I'll run a crossover to my GK 1001RBII plugged into my 410 + 115 for 700W of sub 1KHz goodness. My 5.1 can handle those less important higher frequencies.

[SKMDC]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend If I want that chest thump, I'll run a crossover to my GK 1001RBII plugged into my 410 + 115 for 700W of sub 1KHz goodness. My 5.1 can handle those less important higher frequencies.

Translate please, in layman's terms.
I want my 5.1 to sound better, I'm always tinkering, but I don't understand anything with a small z at the end of it.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by SKMDC Translate please, in layman's terms. I want my 5.1 to sound better, I'm always tinkering, but I don't understand anything with a small z at the end of it.

Basically he can talk to submarines half way around the globe. That's a low frequency.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by Brad I wonder if CDs will even be available at many brick-and-mortar retailers in ten years.

I wonder if brick-and-mortar will be!