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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-08-18, 23:18

Hopefully, the 24" model looks like Apple's model for general consumers.

That might mean the 30", whenever it comes, might be 'Pro' enough in Apple's mindset to continue to offer RAM and HD upgrades.

[Yes, I'm wishing/praying hard on this one.]
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-08-19, 00:05

I hope that you folks get your dream iMac!

I'm just as ready for the new MacBook Pro.

...
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psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-08-19, 04:02

The iMac I want, if I got one again, already exists. And getting it for $260 off is mighty tempting! I was hoping/prepared for $150-200 savings, so I’m super pleased at that $1,439 price.

But I assume a larger one is coming, and, Apple being Apple, they’ll probably give it Cadillac designation, with whatever next-gen AS is going in the upcoming MacBooks.

If Apple calls it “Pro” or not, offers it in colors, etc. is anyone’s guess. But if Apple intends for a larger model to use the same M1 as the current 24”, why wasn’t it announced in April as well?

I think one of two things will happen:

- a larger iMac, with the updated, beefier AS is coming before the end of the year. It probably will get called something to set it apart from the 24” since it would be more powerful

or

- Nothing comes this year and in the spring of 2022 the 24” iMac gets updated to the next-gen AS powering the new 14” and 16” notebooks and they release a ~30” with it, also using the same processor. Both are just called iMac and are equally powerful. You’re just buying for screen size.

Depending on what day you ask, I believe one of the two above. Currently I’m leaning toward the first option…
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chucker
 
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2021-08-19, 06:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
If Apple calls it “Pro” or not, offers it in colors, etc. is anyone’s guess. But if Apple intends for a larger model to use the same M1 as the current 24”, why wasn’t it announced in April as well?

I think one of two things will happen:

- a larger iMac, with the updated, beefier AS is coming before the end of the year. It probably will get called something to set it apart from the 24” since it would be more powerful
Sounds about right, though Apple oddly isn't shy to do significant discrepancies in the same product line. The 13-inch M1 MacBook Pro is rather different from the 16-inch Intel MacBook Pro; the former is basically an Air with a fan, and the latter is, well, quite a lot more "pro".

So don't be shocked to see a 30-inch iMac that differs in a lot more than just screen size.

I'd be surprised if any additional product (other than something very low-end) ships with an M1 at this point. I suspect consumer products from today on come with the M2, and I expect the 30-inch iMac to come with an M2X — certainly more CPU and GPU cores, possibly a slightly higher clock, maybe additional features (I don't expect them to, but they might gate features like eGPU support to their higher-end SoCs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
- Nothing comes this year and in the spring of 2022 the 24” iMac gets updated to the next-gen AS powering the new 14” and 16” notebooks and they release a ~30” with it, also using the same processor. Both are just called iMac and are equally powerful. You’re just buying for screen size.
Maaaaaaaybe.

But I think the way they made the Mac mini a different color than the previous Intel one, and the 24-inch iMac rather consumer-colored, is a hint that they want to do separately-colored higher-end variants.
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psmith2.0
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2021-08-19, 08:36

That’s cool with me. As I’ve said elsewhere, everything with Pro in its name should just come in Space Grey only: Mac Pro, iMac Pro, Mac mini Pro, etc. When you see a darker grey Mac, you know “oh, that’s a…”.

They’re actually in a good position to do that on the next go-around of everything. Space Grey only for anything “Pro”, silver (and colors?) for the rest. That may very well be the reason they put the M1 mini back to silver, to give them the chance to put out a much more powerful model, in the $1,000+ range, that looks the part.
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drewprops
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2021-08-19, 09:02

OR IN RED BECAUSE IT IS FAST


...
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psmith2.0
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2021-08-19, 09:28

Except that color is already “spoken for” in Appleville. No way they step on that. Unless they want to start offering (product) RED Macs (you’d think they would…more money, right?).

I wonder why they haven’t/dont?

Surely they’d sell for the same reasons, and to the same folks, who buy the red iPhones and other items.

They wouldn’t even have to make the entire thing red if that’s too expensive or tricky. Just the Apple logo or a smaller section, or even some sort of embedded badge/symbol engraved into the model? Something that visually sets it apart and proceeds from those Macs go to that fund. You’d think they be all over that.
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chucker
 
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2021-08-19, 10:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
They’re actually in a good position to do that on the next go-around of everything. Space Grey only for anything “Pro”, silver (and colors?) for the rest. That may very well be the reason they put the M1 mini back to silver, to give them the chance to put out a much more powerful model, in the $1,000+ range, that looks the part.
Exactly — that's my guess. They're trying to establish "dark silver means pro".

(OTOH, the M1 Air can be had in Space Gray, so… maybe not? I dunno.)
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psmith2.0
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2021-08-19, 10:49

Right, but that's something that can easily - and instantly - change, if/when they decide.

On the day the new, redesigned 14" and 16" MacBook Pros are announced, in one fell swoop, while the store is down and things are being updated, they could:
  • New 14" and 16" MacBook Pros in Space Grey only
  • Space grey no longer offered on the MacBook Air...just silver (and gold?), until its rumored 2022 redesign/colors
  • Those two lower-end M1 MacBook Pros get renamed "MacBook" and silver only (they also lose the Space Grey option, no longer being called "Pro")...a step up from the Air, but not as powerful (or expensive) as the new 14" and 16" M1x/M2/whatever Pro models. But a solid, mid-range model For The Rest Of Us™...an Air with a fan and 8-core graphics, occupying that ~$800 gap between students/mommy bloggers and hardcore, demanding professionals

The remaining stuff (Space Grey Airs and M1 Pros) blows out as clearance, refurbs, etc. as they currently do on things they discontinue (the 12" MacBook, the 21.5" iMac, etc.). "Clear the channel", as the rumor sites say. Somebody will buy them, priced attractively.

That's all something they can do in a single day/event if they wanted, and it instantly clarifies/simplies the entire notebook lineup and makes it so much easier to understand/shop for. They need to do something because right now the notebook lineup is an unholy mess of confusing names, two different sets of guts, weird overlap, models called "pro" that really aren't, etc. A clearly-defined three-tier lineup (Air, MacBook, Pro...positioned/priced, and even colored, accordingly) would be an improvement over what's in place now.

And if they want to continue offering the 13" and 16" Intel-based models for a bit longer for those who need them, fine...they just occupy a smaller, quieter place on the website/online store.

My head explodes trying to explain the current Apple notebook situation to any prospective buyers. Lately all I say is "if you can wait about 1-2 months, do so...and we'll talk then".

The only thing I'm comfortable recommending at the moment, notebook-wise, would be refurb M1 Airs and 13" Pros, seeing as how they're now nine months old and a bunch of stuff could be changing in the next month or two.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-08-19 at 11:28.
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chucker
 
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2021-08-19, 13:32

Yeah, that sounds about right.
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psmith2.0
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2021-08-19, 13:46

I hope so. Way easier for everyone, all around.

If the M1 MacBook Air had a fan, I wouldn’t feel as strongly about those two lower-end 13” models sticking around because that could easily be the $999-$1,499 MacBook for everyone.

But with it fanless and the upcoming models likely starting at $1,799, there is that big space between the two for something in-between to sit. Better than the Air, not quite Pro.

I don’t want to worry about my machine getting too toasty. In fact, if the Air had a fan I’d already own one. I much prefer that design but if I get to messing with the Affinity stuff, iMovie, etc. as I sometimes do, I don’t wanna be frying eggs.

I wish they hadn’t done that.
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chucker
 
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2021-08-19, 15:24

So, I only skimmed your post, tbqh.

As far as fanless goes: this is tricky for me because no way could I use an Air productively, but I might also tremendously enjoy it for everything else. But I've been trying to avoid the two-computer lifestyle. That said, by all accounts, the fanless Air is pretty great. I mean, iPads are fanless, and that's, like, really cool. Except when they're literally not cool, but hot, which doesn't happen much to me (but does occasionally happen on my iPhone 11 — iPhone 13 with fan CONFIRMED!).

As for the $800 gap, I think you're overshooting.

We might see, in spring 2022:

* a $799 M1 MacBook Air. It's just the old one, slightly discounted, Tim Cook-style. It's a pretty good machine, so let's keep selling it.
* but, also, a $1199 M2 MacBook Air with a design refresh. Maybe a new feature, too. Center Stage? Cellular?* And either the iPad Air colors, or the 24-inch iMac colors. (I suspect the Air ones work better on anything portable.)
* the $1299 M1 Pro either gets discontinued or also has one remaining option, now discounted to $1099.
* for $1399, you get the M2X 14-inch MacBook Pro. All-new design (first major change since 2016). HDMI (gasp).
* for $1999, the M2X 16-inch MacBook Pro. Same. No dGPU.
* for $2399, the M2X 16-inch MacBook Pro with either the G1 (Apple's first discrete GPU), or an AMD chip.

It's also possible that the M2 replacement for the Air is just called the MacBook. In that scenario, they might do $1199 12-inch and $1349 14-inch versions.

*) HOW DO WE STILL NOT HAVE CELLULAR MACBOOKS
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chucker
 
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2021-08-19, 15:25

Dudebros about to tell me "well ackshually you can just tether a MacBook with an iPhone" can go tether themselves.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2021-08-19, 15:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
can go tether themselves.
Is that a thing? 'Cause I don't want Scates going all "Youtube video weirdos NSFW" on us.
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psmith2.0
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2021-08-19, 15:29

I can only go with what is available now. MacBook Airs starting at $999, and those higher-end MacBook Pros starting at $1,799 = $800 There's something in that space now, so it'll continue in some form, as I imagined above. There should be, either a dedicated model or via BTO'ing a $999-1,199 machine with extra RAM and storage. I just wouldn't feel comfortable, long term, going fanless. Maybe when I'm older and I'm just surfing, emailing and looking at Maps.

I know there are BTO options within the Air and those lower-end Pros, but that's also what I talked about earlier. Position them clearer and don't confuse things with calling things "pro" that aren't. Seems like a good way to disappoint folks.

I honestly never considered a notebook less than $999, but I suppose it could happen. That would be a nice seller, I bet. Those refurb M1 Airs are about $849 for the entry-level model (originally $999), so that's getting close. Some folks have a hang-up on refurbs, though. If Apple could sell one new for $799, that would cover a lot of users (and then a refurb would be about $699).

Sorry, I just adore the whole refurb thing. The day Apple stops this, I'm writing a profanity-laced letter to Tim (and Steve too, just for good measure).
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-08-22, 15:32

Not deserving of its own thread, but exactly what chucker and I were talking about the other day (either this thread or the 14" and 16" MacBook one).

Mark Gurman: high-end M1x-based Mac mini this fall?

...and in Space Grey?

I could see two tiers of Mac mini (sub-$1,000, silver - and colors at some point? - and M1-based) and then the much-talked-about "headless iMac" version in that $1,000-2,000 (and above?) space with More Better/Bigger/Faster everything (beefier AS, higher RAM ceiling, higher stock RAM and SSD (16GB and 512GB vs. 8GB and 256GB). Or do people spending that much on a standalone computer (vs. notebook or AIO) demand proper expansion that only a tower of some sort could provide?

Interesting, regardless. MacBook, Mac mini, iMac...each with a darker, pricier (and far more powerful/capable) "pro" variant?

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-08-22 at 15:55.
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PB PM
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2021-08-22, 17:43

As long as the price/performance ratio is good, they should go for it.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-08-22, 18:10

Such a lineup would kinda make some sense and cover a lot of ground/user types.

I think customers (and people who help others decide/buy Macs) would appreciate that clearly-defined product grid offering the three main types of computers that exist in the world, and two tiers of each, covering the majority of users and their needs.

"From $699 to $2,499 we have a Mac for you, across three distinct computer types, with two performance tiers of each. And within each of those, we offer the usual RAM/storage customization options. And for those who are truly doing heavy-lifting and require true, no-compromise performance, let us introduce you to the new, redesigned Mac Pro built on the latest generation of Apple Silicon...you will pay through the butthole for the privilege, but you will never experience a more powerful, capable computer!"

1) What kind of computer do you want...headless box, notebook or AIO?
2) Are you a regular, mainstream user or does your work require extra performance/horsepower?

If the latter, look at the Pro version of the model you chose in question 1, and customize accordingly.

There's probably 80% or so of your Mac-buying population, the two questions above.

3) For those who require the extra performance/horsepower, can you get it done with the Pro version of your choice, or do you need to step up to the Mac Pro workstation (which no longer even has a notebook counterpart because it's just so damn powerful and stands alone in its own unique category, completely separate from the above six-part grid)

Only a select, niche group of users would ever have to proceed to question #3.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-08-23 at 13:09.
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psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-08-23, 13:10

I just had to draw it out...

PS - I hate Imgur and have no idea if this is going to post or not...

Based on things I talk about above, plus others mentioning a possible $799 MacBook.

My overall idea: ditch the "Air" name and just call the notebooks MacBook (12" and 14") or MacBook Pro (14" and 16"). I base the 12" on a) getting a lower-cost model out there and b) that story about Apple polling users about the 12" a week or two ago (are they thinking of putting out that size again?).

The Mac mini Pro could be slightly larger for better cooling, more ports, etc. But it's still less than 3-4" tall and no more than 8-9" square?

I'm personally not bonkers about colors, but I tossed them in to the standard line (a logistical/stocking nightmare, to be sure). If that's just too much, pretend they all settle down to silver only eventually. All the pro stuff is Space Grey only. That color is now reserved for any Mac with the word "pro" in its name.

The standard stuff comes with the lower-end M1 (or M-whatever comes next), 8GB RAM/256GB SSD and the pro line the higher-end AS version at the time, plus double the RAM and SSD stock.

Then the tower, the true high-end workstation for those needing it, sits kinda off to its own. And, stock, it has the absolute most power AS available and double the RAM/SSD from the pro line (for $5,000+ dollars in 2022, 32GB and 1TB storage seems reasonable).

Anyway...just doodling some ideas, and looking for an excuse to use Affinity Designer.



EDIT (8/24): Added a bit more detail/depth to the drawing above (for fun), but also to remove colors from the Mac mini (since it'll be paired with who-knows-what kind of monitor, and I doubt Apple would make all the different colors), it just makes sense to keep the Mac mini at silver only. Should Apple make a smaller, more affordable display, it'll pair with that, but it's meant to just be neutral (silver) and go with whatever is at Office Depot or Best Buy too. Makes no sense to offer that particular Mac in colors, IMO. Unlike the MacBook or iMac, it isn't big/noticeable enough to make any sort of real visual impact, so why bother with the hassle. It'll just sit on a desk and blend in.

The MacBook and iMac, being self-contained (monitor built in), I can understand that a bit more (colors). Still not fully bonkers about it, but I'm going with it for now. But the standard line would work in just silver/white as well, should they ever decide to end the colors.

And you'll also notice that I kinda thing the two lineups should be set off visually, with the standard stuff being silver/white, and the pro stuff being space grey/black. I put little strokes around the color swatch/circles to further drive that home. The standard line would basically look like a 24" silver iMac...silver and white (just like the iMac's keyboard...white keys sitting in a silver frame). In my world they unify on that look for the standard line, so the 12" and 14" MacBook also get the white bezel and the same white keys as you'd see on an iMac keyboard). It would be a nod back to the iBook/MacBook, which had white keys. They won't get any dirtier than those models, or any iMac keyboard (which has only ever come with white keys, at least as far as I know).

I also stood the Mac minis up, so you're seeing them from the cop. A bit more interesting than the straight-on view I originally had.

But, overall, just further driving home that visual separation/cue...the standard Macs are silver/colors (with white trim/accents) and the pro Macs are all space grey, with black trim/accents (keyboard, bezel, etc.).

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-08-24 at 12:23.
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chucker
 
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2021-08-23, 13:13

Looks nice!
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kscherer
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2021-08-23, 13:29

Yep. Looks about right to me.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
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2021-08-23, 14:06

Thanks. I wouldn't mind a lineup like that at all. Makes it pretty easy to figure out...choose the overall type, then standard or pro version (and then BTO/customize as desired).

Clearly defined by AS tiers, stock RAM/SSD amounts, body style/coloring. Keeps everything very clean and easy to research/figure out. And if/when the colors thing runs its course again, then it gets really easy with just silver and space grey in the mix...silver on the standard lineup, space grey on anything "pro". BOOM. No crossover, no confusion, no muddying the waters.

And if Apple ever got into the display business again, a large (30-32") space grey high-end display to pair with the Mac Pro tower (like they currently do), but then maybe a more affordable (sub-$1,000) 24" model as well, with all the ports and charging features) to pair with the Mac mini or notebooks. And offer them in silver and space grey so the customer can match it to their Mac if they want.
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PB PM
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2021-08-23, 14:07

Simple and straightforward as the lineup should be.
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Frank777
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2021-08-23, 14:40

Of course, the rumour was that they are working on a smaller version of the Mac Pro with an Ax chip.

Which begins to complicate things again.
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kscherer
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2021-08-23, 14:47

Or the "smaller Mac Pro" and the new Mac mini are the same thing.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
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2021-08-23, 14:49

Oh, I thought the smaller tower was a replacement for the current huge one?

I really don't keep up with the pro tower stuff much, so there's no telling what they're up to.
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kscherer
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2021-08-23, 14:55

There was some jabber about a Mac Pro Mini. Who knows.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-08-23, 15:20

And here's my display idea I talk about above. Bear in mind, I know the current standalone pro display is 32" and I don't know if a larger iMac would be 30" or 32" (I don't know what's standard/expected in those ranges). So just to simplify everything and making it work across multiple products for illustration purposes, etc., I'm pretending 30" is where everything tops out (the iMac Pro and a new standalone display, etc.).

The chin gets eliminated/raised a bit, but the displays themselves sit at the same exact height (as well as the top of the display) at the same location as their 24" and 30" iMac counterparts. And then each display can be paired with any of the Macs. The 30" would just come in in Space Grey only (no need for a silver option). And then the 24" versions can pair with any Mac (so you're not forced to shell out for a huge, price 30" display for your Mac mini or MacBook).



And paired with an same-display-sized iMac...


Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-08-23 at 15:32.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-08-24, 17:25

Updated above (can't edit/update yesterday's post). Hmmm...



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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
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2021-08-30, 12:23

Getting back to the iMacs, I just saw this and it looks like a pretty neat idea.

Maybe not the most elegant, seamless things in the world, but it's not a complete horror show. And, sometimes, functionality must win out over "pretty". They provides more (useful) ports for those who need them, and makes these easily accessible from the front of the iMac. Something Apple has never shown interest in doing.

Two models/designs, a 5-in-1 with various USB-based ports for $50 and a 6-in-1 for $80, with HDMI, card slot, USB this 'n' that, etc.

Kinda cool/clever, IMO.

Oh, and iMac color-matching faceplates. It's 1999-2000 all over again!
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