[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Depending on where you live and your work/school situation, a car is a must-have to many.

Yes, but generally not a new one.

My point is a lot of people do have $3k; they just usually don’t spend it on consumer electronics. It’s just a questioning of how important this product is. Does it potentially replace an iPad and a Mac? Then $3k is no longer quite that unreasonable.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by chucker Yes, but generally not a new one. My point is a lot of people do have $3k; they just usually don’t spend it on consumer electronics. It’s just a questioning of how important this product is. Does it potentially replace an iPad and a Mac? Then $3k is no longer quite that unreasonable.

Depends, most people don't spend $3k on a computer either. VR, AR, just doesn't seem that exciting, which makes that kind of price tag even worse. I suppose there will be great adverting opportunities with it though, so I'm sure companies are going to want to get on board for the AR side.

[psmith2.0]

It’ll be interesting to see. The iPhone absolutely solves/fixed/improved the smartphone field in the ways Steve pointed out in the introduction). It was something wanted/needed that addressed a lot of shortcomings and weirdness that n the then-current smartphone field. Maybe the AR/VR arena is in the same pickle and I just don’t follow/keep up with that world enough to know/realize.

But it doesn’t seem like the world is hungry to drop $3K on such a thing. It would have to some special, mind-altering stuff that really made its own “well of course!” case.

[drewprops]

If anybody has a chance of penetrating the market in a significant way, it isn't Facebook.


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[psmith2.0]

Facebook/Meta couldn’t penetrate a donut.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by PB PM Depends, most people don't spend $3k on a computer either.

Right. If this rumor is correct, I don’t think Apple is under any illusion that this is mass-market pricing.

[drewprops]

An Oculus does not cost $3K, does it?

Overlooking the Apple Tax, why might the Apple device cost more?


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[PB PM]

Originally Posted by drewprops An Oculus does not cost $3K, does it? Overlooking the Apple Tax, why might the Apple device cost more? ...

The high end mainstream VR sets are all under $1500. Not sure about AR stuff.

[dglow]

Originally Posted by PB PM The high end mainstream VR sets are all under $1500. Not sure about AR stuff.

Leap 2 is $3300, Hololens is $3500+. High-end commercial VR is easily over $5K.

Originally Posted by drewprops An Oculus does not cost $3K, does it? Overlooking the Apple Tax, why might the Apple device cost more?

The Oculus/Meta Quest Pro began at $1500, since discounted. This bought exactly the same processor as the Quest 2, but upgraded cameras and lenses. And this CPU is an old, low-grade Qualcomm device.

Reality is rumored to sport an exotic two-chip solution with an M-series CPU combined with a dedicated ISP chip to wrangle all the camera feeds. Possibly on the (very expensive) 3nm node. The 4K x 4K miniature OLED displays purportedly cost on the order of $300 wholesale – each. The headset needs two of them.

Does this add up to $3K? Certainly not. But such specs are far beyond anything in the consumer space, and even much of the commercial space too.

[drewprops]

I tried an Oculus, and mini-golf was "fun", but not a killer app.

Will there BE a killer app that Apple can deliver better than most?


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[chucker]

Originally Posted by drewprops I tried an Oculus, and mini-golf was "fun", but not a killer app. Will there BE a killer app that Apple can deliver better than most? ...

Memoji.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by dglow Leap 2 is $3300, Hololens is $3500+. High-end commercial VR is easily over $5K.

Never heard of those before, I was only aware of Oculus and HTC Vive and such.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by drewprops I tried an Oculus, and mini-golf was "fun", but not a killer app. Will there BE a killer app that Apple can deliver better than most? ...

Originally Posted by chucker Memoji.

Yes, txt messages able to be sent by blink, that will be the killer app, well for most people.

[dglow]

Watch-style shotgun strategy – try a bunch of things, double-down on what sticks.

[drewprops]

🤣😫😭🤣❤️🍕🤔😧😭😮😞😎 😫🤷🏼‍♂️😹🎶

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret dude: everybody's always like Wow, how'd he do it? Wow, it's so good - how'd he do it, dude? I don't know dude. I don't know what I'm doing, okay? I have no clue. Zilch.
Nada. None, dude. I'm just, l'm just winging it, okay? I'm just winging it like a little, like a little baby bird, dude, and it just keeps working, dude. I'm like, whoa!! LOL



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[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by PB PM Never heard of those before, I was only aware of Oculus and HTC Vive and such.

As someone who has been helping run an international group for AR / IoT in the enterprise, and who worked in VR research 20 years ago...

$3k for a professional (not 'oooh lightsabers game') AR headset with the rumored specs would be... well, it would be absolutely disruptive as hell.

Y'all are thinking Beat Sabre, when the applications are more along the lines of aircraft engine repair guides that overlay on the actual engine during a repair, or real-time assessment of a production line by simply looking across the factory floor. Software will be the determinant, but honestly, given what I've seen in this space to date, at 2-3x the price... the bar is stupidly low.

Right now the VR/AR space is pretty stagnant, to be honest. Progress is incremental, use cases are same old same old for the past decade, and the UX options are frankly lousy.

So yup, it absolutely reminds me of the pre-iPhone cell phone market. Everyone is pursuing the same use cases, fighting over who has a few % more performance, and assuming that the standard form factor is absolute.

This is going to be interesting to see what they pull out of their hat. Could be a complete non-starter, of course, but the landscape looks awfully familiar to my eyes.

[drewprops]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Y'all are thinking Beat Sabre, when the applications are more along the lines of aircraft engine repair guides that overlay on the actual engine during a repair, or real-time assessment of a production line by simply looking across the factory floor. Software will be the determinant, but honestly, given what I've seen in this space to date, at 2-3x the price... the bar is stupidly low.

Now THIS begins to answer my question!

I want to be sold on a thing I didn't know that I needed, in classic Apple style.

Walking a site and simultaneously walking through the CAD drawings.

Attend live sporting events overlaid with on the fly data about the players, field conditions, options.

Interactive enhancements for films and episodics would be possible for a vertically integrated company.

Archeologists could overlay field scans with open trenches and walk the site in real time, then tune the contrast of the screens to better spot ditches and traces of robbed-out footings.

I'm sure there are better ones, I'm just spitballing.


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[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by drewprops Archeologists could overlay field scans with open trenches and walk the site in real time, then tune the contrast of the screens to better spot ditches and traces of robbed-out footings.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA... that's basically the project I pitched in grad school in 1994. Get a few interns manning ground penetrating radar, magnetometers, etc, and walk a field in real time. Compile the data into a 3D render, overlay over a camera feed, and let the dig lead literally walk around looking at potential hotspots for digging. "Dave, come over here and give me a higher rez pass at this spot..."

It was not possible at the time to maintain anything like a coherent spatial registration, and even when using the state of the art systems indoors many users became nauseated from a 'swimming' effect in the visual field, like being on the deck of a rolling ship.

Now? Child's play.

So the question then becomes whether they're going to introduce it with a cheeky "Some people have been asking for swappable batteries our devices for years... have we got a product for *you*!" I think a belt battery is the right move, one of the major complaints from the enterprise space is helmet weight causing neck fatigue after wearing the device for an entire work day. The other? Too short of battery life. This solves both at one shot.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by drewprops An Oculus does not cost $3K, does it? Overlooking the Apple Tax, why might the Apple device cost more? ...

No other reason than the Apple Tax. Because They Can™ might be all it is.

Why does all their stuff go for so much more than their competitors? And they seem to be gathering/pointing in that direction more and more of late. New M3 iMacs will probably start at $1,499 (with 8GB RAM).

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 No other reason than the Apple Tax. Because They Can™ might be all it is. Why does all their stuff go for so much more than their competitors? And they seem to be gathering/pointing in that direction more and more of late. New M3 iMacs will probably start at $1,499 (with 8GB RAM).

Some Apple prices have been creeping up (the average iPhone, for example), but perhaps not as much as you think.

For example, for the 13-inch MacBook Air base configuration:

2008 Merom $1799
2008 Penryn $1799
2009 Penryn $1499
2010 Penryn $1299
2011 Sandy Bridge $1299
2012 Ivy Bridge $1199
2013 Haswell $1099
2014 Haswell $999
2015 Broadwell $999
2017 Broadwell $999
2018 Amber Lake $1199
2019 Amber Lake $1099
2020 Ice Lake $999
2020 M1 $999
2022 M2 $1199

Those lines in bold are revisions that came with a significant design change. The 2010 one was where they introduced the 11/13 inch models; that was the first revision where an SSD was standard (if you can believe that, that original $1799 MacBook Air had a hard disk!; the SSD was a pricy upgrade option). I believe the trap door was also removed at this point. The 2018 was the first Retina versoin, and the 2022 is perhaps the biggest design change yet; it's no longer tapered at all.

I made them bold because, especially with the 2018 and the 2022, you can see the price going back up. But afterwards, it slowly goes down again. So there's precedent for the Air to go down to $999 again within a year or three.

And, I think Cook's pricing strategy is to drive up the average, but also to offer a broader range (see: iPhone SE, Watch SE, old iPhone versions still for sale), so we might also continue to see the M1 Air at $799.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Kickaha As someone who has been helping run an international group for AR / IoT in the enterprise, and who worked in VR research 20 years ago... $3k for a professional (not 'oooh lightsabers game') AR headset with the rumored specs would be... well, it would be absolutely disruptive as hell. Y'all are thinking Beat Sabre, when the applications are more along the lines of aircraft engine repair guides that overlay on the actual engine during a repair, or real-time assessment of a production line by simply looking across the factory floor. Software will be the determinant, but honestly, given what I've seen in this space to date, at 2-3x the price... the bar is stupidly low. Right now the VR/AR space is pretty stagnant, to be honest. Progress is incremental, use cases are same old same old for the past decade, and the UX options are frankly lousy. So yup, it absolutely reminds me of the pre-iPhone cell phone market. Everyone is pursuing the same use cases, fighting over who has a few % more performance, and assuming that the standard form factor is absolute. This is going to be interesting to see what they pull out of their hat. Could be a complete non-starter, of course, but the landscape looks awfully familiar to my eyes.

Kind of what I was thinking earlier on in other threads on the subject. AR would be great for architects, landscape design, engineering, and such. That’s fine for industrial use, but I cannot see that being Apples target. Apple is a consumer electronics company after all. I just don’t see a killer app for the mass market, other than some new computer/watch/phone replacement. Advertising companies would be salivating to get their hands into that, timed ads for any time you walk/ride/drive past a store, or company office. Perfect.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by PB PM Kind of what I was thinking earlier on in other threads on the subject. AR would be great for architects, landscape design, engineering, and such. That’s fine for industrial use, but I cannot see that being Apples target. Apple is a consumer electronics company after all.

Every major new product starts out as a luxury item and trickles down into the consumer space. When the iPhone launched, it was several times more expensive than the median phone. It did way more than the price bump indicated, however, and that was the value proposition.

Based on units sold, VR is still effectively an untapped market, and AR is barely a rounding error in the consumer space. The entire global XR (AR + VR + MR) market was still under 9 million units in 2022 (https://www.idc.com/promo/arvr).

That's two weeks of iPhones.

And that *includes* the enterprise space with the insanely high priced systems that this could in theory mop the floor with on both performance *and* price. (Hard to believe Apple could be the one to undercut, innit?)

The XR market is still anybody's ballgame at this point.

[Frank777]

I've always assumed that, aside from the new use cases, the Glasses will also integrate well with the Mac. Kinda like this.

[drewprops]

Are we guessing these will be VR only or VR/AR hybrids?

I'm trying to guess into a fun, unexpected use case that Kick didn't think of 20 years ago


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[PB PM]

I believe Apple's focus has been AR, rather than VR. It seems more likely to be an on the go type thing (think back to Google glass) rather than tethered to a computer. That would make more sense given the predicted price tag, something tethered to a computer wouldn't need much expensive hardware to make it run.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by PB PM I believe Apple's focus has been AR, rather than VR. It seems more likely to be an on the go type thing (think back to Google glass) rather than tethered to a computer. That would make more sense given the predicted price tag, something tethered to a computer wouldn't need much expensive hardware to make it run.

You're probably right.

Although this is a company that sells a $700+ set of headphones, and charges $500 to add wheels to their computers.

[chucker]

According to rumors, this thing is VR, and the AR one, which is what they really want is years off.

[Yikes!]

My guess is that Apple will pitch/position this initial headset product almost as if it’s the ultimate Apple Pro Display XDR. If the specs of this pan out, and the rumored price, this would be an interesting tactic for Apple to use as $3k for the worlds most advanced 8k “display” is not unreasonable. Think using a Mac and having multiple 8k workspaces to view.

I think where Apple will go beyond is that it’s really a computer itself and so you could be flying and watching an immersive NBA Finals game on this thing or you could be editing Final Cut Pro timelines and virtually “touching” the screen with hand gestures as if you were using a giant iPad. Why use a small 6” iPhone on a plane when you can put a pair of these on and replicate a home office experience or a killer home entertainment experience?

The rumored name even kind of fits in with Apple’s Display naming conventions.

[kscherer]

Way back in our Toledo days, we knew a guy that went by "Yikes!".

We called him that because every time he posted, everyone was, like, "Yikes!" because we never knew what to expect. He was just kind of random and all over the place.

It was a fun thing, kind of an inside joke, really. But it stuck.

Anyway, welcome to the boards, Yikes!

[PB PM]

This bots not even creative, just copied a bunch of stuff from earlier posts and reworded it.