Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Like I said, I lock mine down.
OTOH, my neighbor's WiFi constantly causes my signal to drop significantly when they turn it on. It's some Linksys model, and it is just insane. In their case, it's like they're blaring their stereo and the sound is bleeding over onto my property... and they're playing N*Sync. We could debate this all week, but simply put, I don't believe that consuming someone else's bandwidth and leeching off of their paid service without compensation is right. (Of course, I think anyone that leaves their WiFi open is an idiot, and people like my neighbors should be shot. Thank god they're moving.) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
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I have to get a new router soon. Mine will no longer allow connections with any kind of wireless security on. I can still use MAC address filtering, but as far as everything else goes, it's down the crapper.
Come waste your time with me |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Kickaha: I quoted your comment but wasn't talking specifically about you. From your initial post, I couldn't tell if you believed using non-protected WiFi was theft or not but your follow-up makes it clear you do. We can certainly agree to disagree; I just don't see how using non-protected WiFi could ever rise to the level of theft/crime, at least not in an urban/residential setting where a user, sitting in his own home, often can't tell if it's a neighbor's WiFi or a free public hotspot.
As Brad said, all analogies have their flaws, but to me unprotected WiFi is no different than a radio or satellite TV signal -- if it's coming into my house, and it's not somehow encrypted or blocked, then I have a clear right to use it. (Again, I don't leech off my neighbor's WiFi; it's more of an academic argument.) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portlandia
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"What a computer is to me is it's the most remarkable tool that we've ever come up with, and it's the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds." - Steve Jobs |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Tried that, sun. :/ Poking around on the intraweb, I found that there are a couple of Linksys WiFi units that don't play well with the other children, and I suspect they have one.
jsk173: In my mind there's a difference between some poor sap leaving their WiFi open because they don't know any better, and someone who leaves it open for public consumption and resource trading. Generally the latter is advertised with a descriptive name, while the former is stuck on 'default'. :} I'm all for WiFi community creation, I think it's a fantastic idea... but it's a voluntary and conscious decision to leave the WAP open, as opposed to an accidental security hole. I try not to take advantage of the naive *too* often, you know? Last edited by Kickaha : 2005-08-12 at 10:22. |
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Less than Stellar Member
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I'd secure mine, but I can't get my wife's PC to get on the network when I do that. It's ridiculous but I can't for the life of me figure it out.
If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong. |
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feeling my oats
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eh...i have a password on mine...but...
when i was visiting my inlaws in florida and had my iBook with me...and they had just moved in and didn't have cable or internet yet...i did find that by going into their garage i got a neighbors signal and checked my email a few times... not quite sure how i feel about it...not like stealing a bike from the neighbors yard...but not quite like getting a TV signal sent to your home on purpose... seems to be a fairly victimless crime...except if everyone does it then we have no cable or wireless access at all...i pay for mine...it ain't cheap...what they should have is wireless everywhere, you pay your monthly bill and can get assess anywhere in the city.... g crazy is not a rare human condition everything is food if you chew hard enough |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I use WEP on my Linksys too. At least I was able to use 128bit. I would use WAP but my Palm Tungsten C doesn't support WAP. I live in an apartment building where from my deck I can pick up no less than 8 hot spots including mine. The good part is most of them now encrypt too, but I think three of them are still wide open. I have accessed one of the networks for a test with my network. The big issue for us is everyone using the was channel. 6 and 11 are saturated in my building!
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Kickaha: I see your point, I just look at it as more of a moral issue than a legal issue and I believe the owner of any given WiFi network has full responsibility for his/her set-up, regardless of his/her level of technical expertise.
As I've said before, I don't -- and wouldn't -- leech off my neighbors' WiFi, but I did end up on a neighbor's WiFi a few times last year after moving into a new building in an area that has a public hotspot. Unbeknownst to me, however, the public hotspot was down for a week for tech work, leaving me on my neighbors' WiFi. The idea I could be criminally charged for selecting the wrong open WiFi connection, while sitting in my living room, seems patently absurd to me. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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listening and transmitting are two different things, but regardless.... the wireless spectrum is unregulated anyways.....
the point is not so much the access to the network, but the usage of the resources through that network.... if someone leaves their network open i see it as an open invitation to looking around..... it's like an unlocked building.... making the network broadcast its name is like a big "welcome" sign..... the difference is that once you are in and looking around is it ok to use their bandwidth too...... i think of it as if your neighbor left their front door open.... yeah you can go in and look around, but once you start eating the food from their fridge then you can call it stealing and that is like using their bandwidth... if you eat their leftovers and scraps most people don't care, but if you start eating all their food they might prosecute.... i think if someone leaves their network open, it should be legal to go on it... i think if you are using their bandwidth you should make a reasonable effort to let the person know..... heck, if you know their network is open, you could probably tell them and close it for them in exchange for them letting you log on to it to check email and browse the internet as long as you don't use all their bandwidth. "howdy neighbor, i'll close your front door for you if you let me eat your leftovers" |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
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However, if you drive down the street with a modified pringles can seeking out networks, even if it's for a legal use at that point, I think you're in the wrong. Come waste your time with me |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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WEP = Wired Equivalent Privacy WPA = Wi-Fi Protected Access The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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Do you know if there's any way of seeing if anyone other than myself is using my Airport Express?
WAP could mean Wireless Access Point, but I try not to use it as it's a bit confusing with WPA. |
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Passing by
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
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Use the Apple Airport management apps from their website - wait a minute, will post a link.
Edit: http://www.apple.com/support/airport/ - under additional resources on RHS, bottom of the list "Airport Management Tools". The Airport Management Utility will tell you the MAC no.s of the Macs accessing the Airport Express. Last edited by Franz Josef : 2005-08-13 at 15:48. |
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Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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Thanks for that. Using it now. (Actually, in playing I ended up borking the system, but them's the breaks, I guess. Fixed it now...)
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I am still a security newB though. I did actually turn on my MAC filters for my router since I'm using WEP. I was surprised at how many addresses I needed to add. This should prevent someone from hacking in even with the lower grade WEP in use right??? Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. Last edited by turtle : 2005-08-13 at 17:51. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Can one of you guys point to a good intermediate skill-level article about WPA? I'm curious about it because I came home one day to find my Airport flashing like a bad German disco. I finally re-booted everything from scratch and implemented the WEP but would like to be smarter.
AND a little story.... Back about three or four years ago there was a show filming here in Atlanta called 'The Fighting Temptations'. I did some basic IT stuff for the production office and noticed that they'd discovered a wireless network in the area that was faster than their own individual dialup accounts and naturally they began using that network because they were flinging music files back and forth with the west coast and with their studio engineers. When I heard that they were using an unknown party's network I told them to STOP because they had no idea whose equipment they were passing through. It could've been a harmless connection or it could've belonged to some kind of paparazzi scum. It was scary to see that kind of ignorance at fairly high levels, but it wasn't surprising. So if there are any recommended reading sources about WPA out there let us know. Otherwise we can all google it up on our own~~ |
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Passing by
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
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MAC filtering addresses a second issue - namely that someone can use your bandwith without your permission. So yes, MAC filtering prevents someone else hacking in to leech your bandwidth but does not, in itself, make the wireless connection between your Mac and your wireless router secure. |
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Passing by
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
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http://www.flexbeta.net/main/article...=1&pagenum= 1 |
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Sucker for shiny objects
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I should have known that Apple would have software for this kind of thing. Time to play. |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
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I personally also use the ability in the Airport extreme to reduce signal strength. I live a place where there aren't any other networks that can interfere, so I'm running at a quiet 25%. The signals travel nicely though my small house, but not outside the outer walls.
I picked up this strategy from my time in the army. It's common sense to reduce your electronic signature in order to avoid detection. And the real choke-point is anyways still your broadband connection. EDIT: Of course I also use WPA and MAC filtering. Last edited by Mugge : 2005-08-24 at 11:42. |
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