Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Post your Mac OS 12 tidbits here.
Or not. — It seems that Apple is going to drift away from Intel much sooner than expected. We know that there are processor features in the M1 that do not exist in Intel chips, and Apple appears to be taking advantage of that with Monterey by excluding certain features from Intel systems. Ok. We knew it was coming, but is it too soon? I'm waiting for the "planned obsolescence" lawsuits to kick in. "Apple won't support my Macintosh 512 anymore. I'm suing!" - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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There's always that "hurt" with each transition. I guess some reasonable timeframes would be involved, but who determines that? People with 2019-2020 Intel Macs might grouse, but who knows. May not even be important, super-cool features.
There are no Intel-based Macs in my future (I don't need anything they provide), so it won't affect me, but yeah...people will probably squawk a little, especially if it is a cool, important feature and they have a fairly recent Intel-based Mac. If they're got a 2009 MacBook Air or something, they can go climb a rope...I don't wanna hear it. I think Apple is pretty generous on this front. My cheap, no-buying ass is running iOS 14.6 on a five-plus-year-old iPhone SE, and I could be running Catalina if I wanted (can't install Big Sur on this 2013 MacBook Pro, but I'm also not upset about it either). If I had a 2019 MacBook Pro, then yeah. But for someone who tends to keep their stuff 2-4x longer than anyone in my orbit, I'm always able to run the latest iOS and almost the latest macOS. Not bad at all. I don't expect Apple to "honor"/support my 8-12 year old Macs...that's on me to maybe buy something every 5-6 years. We've all heard the stories/situations on the other side, though. |
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It's fine.
There's some debate over whether those features would've been hard to implement on older Macs, or how artificial the gating is. I don't think that's something Apple does; they probably looked at it, ran into some Intel-specific issues or challenges, and decided not to bother. This will be the first time since the late 90s (I think) that my Mac will be too old to run the current macOS. But that's not an indictment on the software team, but rather on hardware. The late-2010s' selection of MacBooks Pro was bad. |
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Sneaky Punk
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Nothing older than 2013 machines are even supported by Mac OS11, so that’s not a problem. Look how fast Power PC Macs were fazed out of OS support, it was fast, that should tell anyone buying an Intel Mac that it’s a bad purchase. Once M1 was out it was game over.
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Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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On one hand, I get it - there's no point having all these great new capabilities going to waste just because people have older machines. On 4th other hand...I have a 2020 Intel MBP.
(To be fair, it's not technically "mine" - it belongs to work, and I need to be able to run Parallels.) |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I'm not in a rush to upgrade though I *almost* upgrade my wife's MBP so I could see if Fusion still runs on it or if I'm going to have to buy the next version for support. I'm guessing I'm not going to see Monterey on my main system for some time even though I want some of the features.
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Happy, happy, happy day!
"Erase all content and settings" is coming to the Mac. Finally! Let me tell you, this is so overdue! |
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@kk@pennytucker.social
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Yes, but this way preserves the Mac OS installation.
Basically like doing a clean install without actually doing a clean install. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Disk Utility provides the ability to erase the drive. Always been there? Yes, of course. Then, you boot into an installer and reinstall the OS.
User data? Yes, always been there. Delete the account from Users and Groups and away goes the account. But! The Application layer remains—along with all of its trash, subscription-based apps, App Store (and, thus, Apple ID) purchases, and licensing issues—for the next user. So, when we prep a Mac to be sold as used we need to erase the user layer and the application layer. The only way to cleanly do this is to wipe the entire machine and reinstall the OS. Or, if a user wants to prep their Mac to donate, hand down, or sell—and they want all of the data gone—they have to go through the same process. It is time consuming to the point of crazy, especially if they have slow internet and need to reinstall the OS. "Erase all content and settings" on iOS/iPadOS has always made me jealous since it is so blooming easy and doesn't require a fresh OS install. Now, on the Mac, if we want to eliminate everything installed by a user it will be a one-click option that will require nothing more than a password to implement. All users get wiped, all user-installed software gets wiped, and all settings get wiped. Then, upon reboot, it's like the Mac was just purchased and the new owner can set it up however they choose. Keep in mind that Find My Mac will have to be shut off prior to the wipe, but otherwise this greatly simplifies a restore, sometimes by several hours! - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Sneaky Punk
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If I was buying a used Mac I'd want a clean install, regardless of if the user data was removed. I don't see the point of this essentially insecure way of clearing account data, outside of business use, in other words just for changing employees. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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I get where you're coming from. However, there are plenty of people out there that haven't a clue how to get rid of their stuff (this new feature will fix that). FWIW, we've been doing this for a long time and have never had a data breach. We make our living off of our customer's trust. Also, it's a different world now with Apple's use of SSD's. It's not like old hard drives that just nuked the directory but left the data laying around. SSDs work much differently.
First, the data is encrypted. Without the password, you get nothing. Second, the way that Apple formats SSDs, when the drive is erased everything is gone and cannot be accessed after the fact. In fact, there is no "write zeroes" option in modern Disk Utility with an SSD installed, because there are no one's and zeroes left to snoop through. At all! Third, with the existence of the T2 chip (and whatever its younger brother in the M1 is called) it is quite difficult to just reset passwords, boot from an external, or any other sleuthing. We deal with this on a regular basis, and it's getting progressively harder to break into a Mac to snoop around, even for legitimate reasons. You forget how to get into your own Mac, and your stuff is gone*! Bonus, with "Erase all content and settings", the private key is destroyed and you'll get nothing off the drive. * With proof of purchase, Apple might help you. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Sneaky Punk
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Drinking way too much Apple coolaid. Knowing that, no more trading in used Macs, must be destroyed. Kind of waste, but so be it. Rule of thumb, if a human can make it, a human can crack it (T2 etc), and we know the first gen T2 (machines less than 5 years old) has already been cracked. Give them time.
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There’s nothing to crack. You would have to brute force the key, which is impractical with current tech.
Also, zeroing an SSD 7 times? All that does is wear out the chips, if even that; the controller might flat-out ignore that. |
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Sneaky Punk
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As for writing zeros, it’s still a must. Why do you think vendors that sell self encrypting SSDs, which most non entry level drives have, still provide a secure erase function with their software (yes, I know not for Macs because Apple is perfect TM)? Because firmware flaws in the drives controller can provide weaknesses, or even the key for the encryption. Last edited by PB PM : 2021-06-11 at 09:13. |
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It was. This feature wipes the key.
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Sneaky Punk
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Apple is a pro at snake oil, T2 is just another one. Anyway, I’ll stop dragging this off topic.
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I just installed this on Mrs Turtle's MBP. I haven't gotten to it since telling it to reboot so I have no idea how well it will handle it.
I was working on irrigation all afternoon. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Does anyone happen to have a copy of the Installer for Beta? I installed it on Mrs T's MBP but forgot to copy the installer so I could make and ISO for VMs and lunch. Now I'm not seeing how I can get this installer without building a Big Sur or older VM and installing the beta profile.
I mean, this is probably what I'll do but just wondering if there is another option I'm not thinking about. I'm not ready to test this OS on my "production" machines. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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I believe https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-12-mon...ly-from-apple/ has it ("InstallAssistant.pkg").
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Thanks. I ended up using a new VM and went that route. Longer but I don't trust OS installs from any third party. At least I have a good copy now to make an ISO for VMs or even a flash drive installer if I want.
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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It’s not a third party; they deep link to Apple.
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Oh, I didn't check the link. I should have though. Thank you for sharing it. It is appreciated and really has be scratching my head as to why Apple makes it so hard to get the ISO/Installer.
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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It is pretty weird. The whole createinstallmedia deal is also odd. That felt like a temporary hack and apparently, they're sticking to it. It feels like a corporate left-hand-right-hand conflict between "we don't really want to expose those internals" and "actually, if we hide them, that makes life hard for IT/support/dev folks".
That said! On a Mac where you have the beta profile installed, you could try running `softwareupdate --list-full-installers`. This gives me the 11.5 beta and not Monterey, but that might be simply because my Mac is too old to run it. If it does list 12.0, you could then try `softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 12.0`. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Code:
% softwareupdate --list-full-installers
Finding available software
Software Update found the following full installers:
* Title: macOS 12 Beta, Version: 12.0, Size: 11783915827K, Build: 21A5248p
* Title: macOS Big Sur, Version: 11.4, Size: 12395342506K, Build: 20F71
* Title: macOS Big Sur, Version: 11.3.1, Size: 12411305377K, Build: 20E241
* Title: macOS Big Sur, Version: 11.3, Size: 12425084347K, Build: 20E232
* Title: macOS Big Sur, Version: 11.2.3, Size: 12211077798K, Build: 20D91
* Title: macOS Catalina, Version: 10.15.7, Size: 8248985973K, Build: 19H15
* Title: macOS Catalina, Version: 10.15.7, Size: 8248854894K, Build: 19H2
* Title: macOS Catalina, Version: 10.15.6, Size: 8248781171K, Build: 19G2021
* Title: macOS Mojave, Version: 10.14.6, Size: 6038419486K, Build: 18G103 Not sure about the fetch command though, looks like it is trying to install it again:Code:
% softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 12.0
Scanning for 12.0 installer
MBDisplay: creating data for display 0x4280F40 (main) with bounds o=[0.000000, 0.000000], s=[1440.000000, 900.000000]
Installing: 17.0% |
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Interesting… I'm guessing that's just poor wording.
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I cancelled it right after I grabbed the text. It might just download it and then load the GUI to run the installer like normal but I wasn't going to tie up Mrs T's computer testing last night.
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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