[709]

It's been nearly a year since MC has had a full point upgrade! How time flies! A lot lot lot of under the hood stuff, little of which we'll notice as players, but also some neat new blocks/items and a handful of new mobs.

Diorite, Andesite & Granite, and polished versions of each (2x2, same as sandstone). Unfortunately no slabs, stairs, etc. That's a huge oversight imo.

Course Dirt: Basically the grassless dirt in 1.7, except now you can make it: dirt+gravel 2x2 checkerboard.

Red Sandstone: 4x4 square of red sand. Same as sand>sandstone. Smooth Sandstone, Chiseled, Slabs and Stairs craftable. I'm so happy about this.

Prismarine, Prismarine Bricks, Dark Prismarine, Sea Lantern.
All making up the new Ocean Monument. The greatest thing is that the Prismarine block has an animated color ramp. That's incredibly cool for MC.

Sponge and its wet counterpart. They are exactly what you think they are.

Slime Block. Now this is fun. Bouncy bouncy.


Plus there's some other things. Fences, Gates and Doors are now wood-color specific (and have individual designs). We have iron trapdoors (not easy to open though, only by redstone). Banners…. this needs its own post, and lastly, Armor Stands.


Some new meats: mutton and rabbit. Yum. Plus, rabbit stew. So lots of new meaty things. Also, kill a rabbit, get a foot, brew a Potion of Leaping (new). Also rabbit hide. 2x2 = leather. Cute.


And mobs: The bunnies that everyone will feel bad about killing, endermite that…. eh, nobody knows anything about this bug, and finally some very bad fish(?) called Guardians. They are highly evil, by all accounts.


So, 1.8.

[turtle]

You forgot to mention slaves too! I'm looking forward to slaves. Better than killing them right?

[Robo]

so it updated me to 1.8 and now i can't log in to mcnova i guess

[turtle]

You should be able to chose a new profile in your launcher that you can set back to 1.7.9 and be fine. When you first open the launcher there is a drop down on the lower left side, that's where you make the change.

[Robo]

thx t

[SpecMode]

You don't even have to create a new profile – just edit your existing one and manually choose the right version. (It's good to have a second profile specifically for playing on, say, snapshots and such, though.)

[709]

Should we talk about the move? Let's talk about the move.

I have a rather bold trimming proposal that I'd like input on. I don't know everyone's secret bases or any builds outside of ~ 1000 either direction (sans portal), but since we have new blocks that are in veins underground I figured I'd take a shot at a Maximum Trim™ graphic:



We should regen most of the directional portals, since nobody has built around them yet. N and NE are flower farms, so, keep. W is the mesa mining area, but I think a regen would be good for that area because red sandstone and mesa caves. I don't mind rebuilding that path – I'm sure Ken would say the same. E is iffy because Tricia was plotting something out there and I don't know if she's started yet.

I'm *hoping* we'll get an underwater monument just W of our spawn in the deep oceans if we regen. If not, no biggie. We'll find one. We'll need a farm if we want to craft the new underwater blocks. I hate to destroy, but the closest monument to spawn is toast.

So, looking for some yea and nay and wtf with this. If there's an area that I missed please pipe up.

[709]

Also, should we talk about (Craft)Bukkit? Let's talk about CB.

For anyone not paying attention or not caring (99.999∞), CB may be on its last legs. Long story short: one major developer leaves, creates drama, another leaves, less drama, another one puts his superman underpants on and creates lots of drama by shutting down CraftBukkit via DMCA. It's a long story. Both sides are basically in the right (legally), but it's a standoff where there's nothing that can be done between the two parties to fix it.

So, two options here for us:

• Stay in 1.7.x and enjoy the marketplace, commands like /back /repair &c and the greatest thing of all, TARDIS into new, temporary worlds.
• Move to 1.8 in vanilla and lose all /commands and temp worlds, no economy, no extras. At all. Vanilla as fuck.

Me? I'm up for the latter.

I'm sure the CB thing will get sorted over a few months, but that's a long time to wait for bunnies. Bunnies now plz.

[709]

If we want to get to places quickly now, maybe think about rails. I kind've love that idea. Nether rail line could be fun, plus a few subways up top.

And we should wipe the Nether. That would be fun (and better). If we want a railway we should have wider paths.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by 709 We should regen most of the directional portals, since nobody has built around them yet. N and NE are flower farms, so, keep. W is the mesa mining area, but I think a regen would be good for that area because red sandstone and mesa caves. I don't mind rebuilding that path – I'm sure Ken would say the same. E is iffy because Tricia was plotting something out there and I don't know if she's started yet.

Ken will be glad to help reconstruct said pathways for new mining opportunities! Whether we replace the Nether or not, there will be opportunities to expand out there, again. A Nether Hub will be my first priority!

Originally Posted by 709 If we want to get to places quickly now, maybe think about rails. I kind've love that idea. Nether rail line could be fun, plus a few subways up top. And we should wipe the Nether. It's so not sexy as is.

Well, there was a lot of work put into the Nether Hub, but I really don't mind doing it again. I had a lot of fun with that project and it taught me to be fearless in the Nether. I can hunt that place now with zero worries. I also have ideas to reduce the amount of material used while simultaneously increasing the width of the paths and the Grey-will-be-proud-sexyness of the Hub, itself.

A Nether rail system would be pretty cool, provided we can all settle upon a design that looks AWESOME without having to worry about stupid pig-dudes! The only trouble with rail is the inability to move diagonally, which reduces the efficiency of the hub while also being less fun/challenging to build.

Also, no /back or /repair makes Ken a very unhappy dude, but if that has to happen in order to charge into the future of Cashout Cove, then so be it.

What I want most is a new challenge that also preserves the work I have already done and the vast collection of useless crap I have accumulated!!!

Also, I'm sure I don't really need to say it, but PLEASE for the love of creepers give us ample time for one last Cashout Cove Cashout! I'll need crap-tons of materials for a new Nether Hub.

Edit: Question: Do pig-dudes spawn on rail, or just beside rail and then wander onto it? That will go a long way in determining a new Hub design.

[709]

I kind've want to redesign the Nether with everyone. It's so… I don't know… dry? Given, nobody has really given the Nether an aesthetic direction yet, I guess – especially difficult in a world of dramatic highs and lows. I'm not sure how to marry the two just yet. In my mind I see walkways with cobble fence & no overhead glass, but that wouldn't protect any rail system. Basically, I'd like unbreakable walkways to and fro (cobble or whatever), but at the same time leave the danger from above wrt ghasts. It just seems so meh going through the Nether without being targeted… that's the point!

So, I'm of two minds, I guess. No surprise.

If CBukkit does indeed take the shit then we may want to talk about a high-speed rail line in earnest. Nether and Overworld included.

[kscherer]

I think the high-speed rail should be discussed regardless. We can do better. I can do better (and want to).

Grey, what blocks are "safe" from Ghasts? We know Cobble is. But anything else?

Edit: Never mind. I found this:

The minimum block resistance required to absorb all blast force of the Ghast's fireballs is 20.17, meaning that fences and other blocks with low blast resistance will be destroyed in a fireball explosion. Safe materials that are strong enough to resist a Ghast's fireball include cobblestone, stone, bricks, stone brick, obsidian, Nether brick (including Nether brick fences), iron bars, and iron doors. Netherrack should not be used, as it is easily destroyed by explosions, and fires set on it by Ghast fireballs will not burn out.

…from here.

Ghasts will also destroy rail, so unless we want to be flying off the tracks all the time, I suggest any Nether rail system be protected. However, it would be interesting to build an open-top path system, too. Make the comings and goings a bit more hazardous. You're right that the Nether Hub is a bit humdrum, but I get over that by making regular forays into the uncharted Nether searching out Glowstone and Quartz.

If we go rail, I say we enclose it, but make it more prettier! If we go on foot, I'm thinking open-top all the way.

[709]

Basically the "hard" stuff. Cobble, stone, brick (like, red brick made from clay), and of course nether brick. Probably some others that I haven't tested – stone brick and its variants? Mossy cobble? - my guess is that they'd all work just fine.

[edit]: aha. apparently they haven't tested those either.

[709]

What about just going with Nether Brick? I mean, stick with the country style and all that? I have a ridiculous amount of pretend money… I'd be happy to fill some chests at spawn beneath the Space Needle. At least enough for us to build out as far as we have currently.

I don't know. I'm talking like Nether is already gone.

It would be nice to make the Nether a community project, where everyone gets a say in design and structure and where to put portals (I'd like all portals on one level, but that's another thread) &c. That could be fun. We haven't had a planned comm project since, well, hmm… the mob trap in BP?

[turtle]

I am for the purging/trimming the world as proposed. No need in passing on new mining opportunities.

I love the subway system idea. I'll help with that too as I happen to like that kind of stuff too.

Nether rail also sounds good. The thing to remember is that Pigmen form on solid blocks. This includes one with rails on them. If you put glass on the block above the tracks then you can go through without suffocating and the Pigmen can't spawn on the tracks or get in the way. Then you won't only have issues at the hub points.

We could power those rail systems with activator rails to prevent traffic in the wrong direction if we want to build tracks that go one way.

Nether Brick.


Waiting for a bukkit version or go vanilla, I'm torn. I'm totally cool with vanilla but we need to clear out our bank accounts before we do something like that.

[709]

Originally Posted by kscherer You're right that the Nether Hub is a bit humdrum, but I get over that by making regular forays into the uncharted Nether searching out Glowstone and Quartz.

But if /back goes away the Nether becomes xxx scarier. I can't imagine getting ~1000 blocks from spawn in the Nether without that, but that's the way it's supposed to be. /back has made me soft. No more!

[709]

Originally Posted by turtle If you put glass on the block above the tracks then you can go through without suffocating and the Pigmen can't spawn on the tracks or get in the way. Then you won't only have issues at the hub points.

Does that same bug work in 1.8? I haven't tested it or heard that's it's broken, but I didn't want to mention it because of the new version.

[709]

Originally Posted by turtle I'm totally cool with vanilla but we need to clear out our bank accounts before we do something like that.

Yeah. I think it's a lock that we'll be cashing out before the upgrade. I'd like to wait a bit and see what shakes out from the whole CBukkit drama, but fuck it. It's not productive and as long as I can still be with friends on our server, really, the lack of /whatever isn't going to kill me.

I will miss the TARDIS, though I prefer to think the shutdown will be temporary. I'm sure it is.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by 709 Does that same bug work in 1.8? I haven't tested it or heard that's it's broken, but I didn't want to mention it because of the new version.

Well, it isn't a bug actually, glass isn't a solid block. It does work in 1.8 in my single player world so I can't imagine it not working in the multiplayer one.

Edit: Now with video!

Yeah. I think it's a lock that we'll be cashing out before the upgrade. I'd like to wait a bit and see what shakes out from the whole CBukkit drama, but fuck it. It's not productive and as long as I can still be with friends on our server, really, the lack of /whatever isn't going to kill me. I will miss the TARDIS, though I prefer to think the shutdown will be temporary. I'm sure it is.

The reason I'm torn is that I know it won't be forever before the update to bukkit comes, but is the wait worth it for the bennies with get using bukkit. I'm just not sure.

[709]

Bukkit isn't dead, but CraftBukkit is essentially a zombie. I'm guessing it will be for months, if not just tossing the project into the pyre while Mojang continues to build their own API. It will be incredibly hurtful to the server community in the meantime. Even if Mojang and the developer come to terms, the door is open now. Basically anyone can issue a DMCA takedown against servers that distribute this mix (or, .jar) as long as they've contributed to the code.

It's DMCA gone wrong (and used correctly, ironically), and if it didn't affect me so much I'd love to be watching on the sidelines on how this all plays out.

[turtle]

I guess I have aways equated the two as the same. As you can imagine, I've let Brad do all of that stuff and never bothered to pay attention to it.

Edit: I googled. So Bukkit getting updated doesn't matter if we have no way to implement it into the server. What is the point of having Bukkit then? I'm missing something really important here and am slightly lost of this.

[709]

Yeah, it's all very muddy and even I didn't understand the differences until a few days ago.

Long story short: If you're a server owner, go vanilla for 1.8 or stick with 1.7.x and have the toys.

[ThunderPoit]

No reboot! I like this place!

[709]

Yeah, if we were talking a world wipe, I'd be here with torches too This is just a shave and a haircut. 2 bits.

You would know: Has GLeeK started her project out at the East portal? If so I need to adjust my proposed trim map.

[ThunderPoit]

She hasnt
So youre just talking about taking the current world vanilla. Gonna miss the repairs at the marketplace

[kscherer]

Just tossing some ideas around. Jess and I came up with this for Nether Hub tunnels.

**Edit: Image removed and replaced a bit later in the thread.**

No pigs have spawned in it yet, just FYI, but still early.

The tunnel is 7 blocks wide with glass making up the outside walls, leaving 5 blocks internally. The floors and ceiling alternate glass; stone slab; glass; stone slab; glass, with every 5th block being stone slabs all the way round. Iron fence runs along the two blocks inside each wall, followed by track over top of a solid stone slab base. Glass lines the center with a redstone torch every 5th block to power the rails. Out on the right, in on the left, with walking path down the center. The tunnels are lit by overhead glowstone every 5th block directly above the powered rails. The design carries through empty space and Netherrack, including the glass lining on the floors and walls.

While I understand the powered rails can be much further apart, I am going for symmetry, here.

The design makes it impossible for pigs to spawn anywhere other than directly on top of rails. While I have heard people say that pigs will spawn on rail block, I have yet to see one do so, since rail is a block in and of itself. Pigmen will not spawn where the torches are sitting, and I don't think they will spawn anywhere another block (transparent, as in rail, or solid) is already residing. Only time will tell.

My suggestion is that we quarantine a section of the Nether for further development and use it as an R&D space. I plan to build this same prototype near the Nether Hub in just such a place so you all can walk through it. Seeing it first hand is much better than a simple pic.

Edit: This system will only work in the X, Y directions. If we want to go diagonal, we'll have to come up with another plan.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by ThunderPoit Gonna miss the repairs at the marketplace

This, times infinity gazillion plus eleventy-three!

But, such is life. Back to iron picks in the Nether.

[709]

Turn texture packs on!!! Holy shit does that make a difference.

dat glass

[kscherer]

The only texture pack I use is the AN pack. And that is supplied by the server, right?

Jess and I just play with the default pack on our server. Sorry. I know it will look a lot different in AN, but I've taken that into account.

[709]

Before you log in to the server, click the 'Edit' button in the lower left. Make 'Server Resource Packs' enabled by default.

. . .

edit: aha. Yeah the stock MC texture pack is weird. Never mind the stupid glowstone, but holy shit glass… and packed ice. ? wtf. The packed ice texture is so egregious even Brad can't touch it.