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New iPhone line, October 2011 — free iPhone! Sprint iPhone! Scary iPhone?
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addabox
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: oaktown
 
2011-10-04, 15:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Uh, Siri?

That shit is bananas. And everybody seems to be ignoring it. I mean, just look at this:

.
Fuck yes! I watched the Ars live blog and it seemed like Siri just sort of got named checked near the end, so I was worried the implementation wasn't as extensive as we'd been led to believe, but the iPhone video up at Apple gives it the lead with examples of everything that had been rumored and more. An Android fan yawning and talking about voice commands and search being old hat hasn't really taken the full measure of this thing-- it's not "voice commands", it's AI-- AFAIK the first robust implementation of same in a consumer electronic device.

It's Knowledge Navigator territory. And it's another foundational piece of iOS, something Apple is going to be iterating the shit out of. I mean, "Remind me to buy milk when I get to the market next week" achieved with a single long button press? How much UI does that replace? "Move my meeting with Steve on Wednesday to 4", "You already have an appointment with Jim at 4", "OK make it 5"?

HOW THE FUCK CAN ANYONE BE MEH ABOUT THIS?

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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chucker
 
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2011-10-04, 15:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Joe* View Post
-Extended battery life? (Lets face it, it's crap)
3G talk time has gone up from 7 to 8 hours, though oddly enough, standby time has gone down from 300 to 200 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Joe* View Post
-Improved antenna? The cell reception is still worse than competitors
Apparently they did make some antenna changes.

"It can now intelligently switch between the antennas for even better call quality."

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Joe* View Post
OR They should have accepted this is just a minor revision
It clearly is, as the name indicates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Joe* View Post
and not had a big press conference to announce it, getting everyone hyped about an iPhone 5
There was no big press conference. It was held in a rather small room compared to many other Apple events. There was also no hype whatsoever on Apple's part; even the invite wasn't public.
  quote
torifile
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2011-10-04, 15:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
Man, the market is hating this. Down about $25 from before the keynote.

It's pretty much what I thought, though. If it doesn't *look* any different these days, that's pretty much all that matters. People aren't spec whores. They're design whores.
And it popped up $20 in the last 30 minutes. The market doesn't know what to make of this. To be honest, I don't know either. Will there be lines for a 4S? And if there aren't what will *that* do to the stock?

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
  quote
addabox
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2011-10-04, 15:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial View Post
The siri stuff doesn't matter much to me. At least right now. I don't foresee myself using it much. Yes, it's cool and scary. I don't think it adds a ton of value. A bigger screen is something I would take advantage of every single time I typed a msg on my phone, so 20ish times a day. Would be great.

Maybe I'm wrong about Siri. I don't know right now. We'll see. I just see this as an F'in cool thing that people won't really use.
Why wouldn't I use Siri if it's a much faster way of doing things? Remind me to call Larry when I get to the office. Done. I think this is one of those "the iPad is just a toy, what would you do with it, really?" moments. We just haven't been able to do this kind of thing before, so the possibilities don't seem obvious. I could see this as becoming the primary differentiator for the iPhone, the thing that people change platforms for.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
Mugge
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2011-10-04, 15:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
(...)

There was no big press conference. It was held in a rather small room compared to many other Apple events. There was also no hype whatsoever on Apple's part; even the invite wasn't public.
No, that's what they have the internet for. We all know this: Apple cannot release as much as a new mouse without causing more fuore than Lady Gaga's latest outfit.

  quote
Partial
Stallion
 
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2011-10-04, 15:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Why wouldn't I use Siri if it's a much faster way of doing things? Remind me to call Larry when I get to the office. Done. I think this is one of those "the iPad is just a toy, what would you do with it, really?" moments. We just haven't been able to do this kind of thing before, so the possibilities don't seem obvious. I could see this as becoming the primary differentiator for the iPhone, the thing that people change platforms for.
I see your point with this. I'm looking at it from the perspective is I'm a pretty private person and I would rather text than talk when around others. Certainly in the office I wouldn't use this to schedule meetings, send msgs, etc. I do foresee myself using it in the car, but that's not exactly safe

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...
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Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-04, 16:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Man, can you lose the attitude? You're just being ridiculously condescending to everyone in this thread. It's bizarre and totally unwarranted.

Attack ideas, not people. I knock your ideas and you accuse me of being passive-aggressive, but then you apparently get a pass to throw in all these little accusations and digs at people? I think it's actually you who needs to "get off [everyone's] balls."
I really don't want to pull all the things you have said about "Partial" (and the "tone" used) in the past 2-3 days the same way you did for me.
  quote
Mugge
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2011-10-04, 16:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial View Post
I see your point with this. I'm looking at it from the perspective is I'm a pretty private person and I would rather text than talk when around others. Certainly in the office I wouldn't use this to schedule meetings, send msgs, etc. I do foresee myself using it in the car, but that's not exactly safe
While I certainly think Siri sounds promising, I also think it's one of those things that you need to try out yourself before you can tell if it works for you. I certainly don't get along well with the current voice recognition in the iPhone 4, but if Siri turns out to be more in tune with me it could be a huge feature for me.

Last edited by Mugge : 2011-10-04 at 16:16. Reason: typo
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Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-04, 16:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
The Mac mini going so long with no updates (and the difficulty in user-upgradeabilyt)...I'm talking the older ones, of course.

The Air pricing/offerings?

The display situation?

The lack of a 15" Air-like model?

The shuffle capacity?

The inclusion of the short wireless keyboard in the desktops?

In addition to several instances of general .Mac/MobileMe gripes and concerns, issues with AirPort, the Mighty Mouse and it's roller ball that lasted about five weeks, the confusing iChat/FaceTime overlap or separation (and trying to explain it to a newcomer to the platform), how they've been slowly removing accessories over time that used to be included, etc.

No jokes. Genuine, existing threads/posts by me where I've been less than pleased with things Apple has done. Many here will surely vouch. Eugene, chucker, robo, Kickaha, Moogs, alcimedes, etc. They've all participated and were present. Some agreed with me, some didn't.

Here's the thing...if you're just going to make wild jabs and snarky digs at me all afternoon, at least get with me so I can give you some legit, useful info on the front end - regarding timeframes, products that were available, my budget at the time, what I was upgrading from/to, etc. - so at least there's some accuracy or grounding in your dings about me.

You've not said one accurate, true thing yet. You just dislike me, and today's a good day to fly that particular flag.

That's fine, have at it.

Just don't lie and make up stuff. Anyone can do that.

I'll give you the info you need to make a well-informed jab. No need to assume things, or put words/thoughts into my head.
You aren't fooling anyone.
  quote
Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-04, 16:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Fuck yes! I watched the Ars live blog and it seemed like Siri just sort of got named checked near the end, so I was worried the implementation wasn't as extensive as we'd been led to believe, but the iPhone video up at Apple gives it the lead with examples of everything that had been rumored and more. An Android fan yawning and talking about voice commands and search being old hat hasn't really taken the full measure of this thing-- it's not "voice commands", it's AI-- AFAIK the first robust implementation of same in a consumer electronic device.

It's Knowledge Navigator territory. And it's another foundational piece of iOS, something Apple is going to be iterating the shit out of. I mean, "Remind me to buy milk when I get to the market next week" achieved with a single long button press? How much UI does that replace? "Move my meeting with Steve on Wednesday to 4", "You already have an appointment with Jim at 4", "OK make it 5"?

HOW THE FUCK CAN ANYONE BE MEH ABOUT THIS?
Siri definitely looks amazing. I think the UI is a little weird from the preview videos. And the voice leaves a lot to be desired.

It will be interesting to use and to see how smart it is... right now it's hard to believe it really can decipher what users mean, beyond set phrases.... but it seems like it is capable of doing so.

How does dictation work as far as punctuation? is it like Viavoice where you have to speak punctuation?
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chucker
 
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2011-10-04, 16:10

iPhone 4S Includes Significant Antenna Upgrades
  quote
Ryan
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2011-10-04, 16:18

After a long day away from the computer...

”I wonder what AN thinks about the new iPhone?”

Three pages later

  quote
FFL
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2011-10-04, 16:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
After a long day away from the computer...

”I wonder what AN thinks about the new iPhone?”

Three pages later

This.
Exactly.
  quote
screensaver400
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2011-10-04, 16:20

The name really does piss me off. The whole iOS 4/iPhone 4; iOS 5/iPhone 5; iOS 6/iPhone 6 thing made a ton of sense.

If you count the Verizon iPhone, Apple has released two iPhones in 2011. Perhaps they're moving to two updates a year--the next around March or April of 2012, and the one after that in September or October of 2012. This could mean that a device called iPhone 5 would ship with iOS 5 in six months, followed by an iPhone 5S with iOS 6 six months later.

So basically, twice yearly hardware updates, once yearly major software releases. iOS 5 should have been named iOS 4.5, so that full-number hardware releases would be in sync with the iOS version. Perhaps they'll correct the sync eventually.
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Brave Ulysses
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2011-10-04, 16:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by screensaver400 View Post
The name really does piss me off. The whole iOS 4/iPhone 4; iOS 5/iPhone 5; iOS 6/iPhone 6 thing made a ton of sense.

If you count the Verizon iPhone, Apple has released two iPhones in 2011. Perhaps they're moving to two updates a year--the next around March or April of 2012, and the one after that in September or October of 2012. This could mean that a device called iPhone 5 would ship with iOS 5 in six months, followed by an iPhone 5S with iOS 6 six months later.

So basically, twice yearly hardware updates, once yearly major software releases. iOS 5 should have been named iOS 4.5, so that full-number hardware releases would be in sync with the iOS version. Perhaps they'll correct the sync eventually.
I think it has proved very hard for Apple to keep its software cycle in sync with its hardware cycle.
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chucker
 
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2011-10-04, 16:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by screensaver400 View Post
The name really does piss me off. The whole iOS 4/iPhone 4; iOS 5/iPhone 5; iOS 6/iPhone 6 thing made a ton of sense.
It's really more iOS 4.0/iPhone 4; iOS 5.0/iPhone 4.5, though. It simply isn't a major upgrade. They're being honest about that. This is somehow bad?

The alternative would be a Microsoft-esque disparity: Windows 7 is internally 6.1; Windows 8 is 6.2; Windows Phone 7.5 is internally 7.1. Is that better?

Is Chrome's and Firefox's "let's have a new major release every x weeks regardless of how significant the changes are" better?

Simpler, yes. But to me, being able to see whether the producer considers a change major or relatively minor outweighs the simplicity of having a single "we changed something" number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by screensaver400 View Post
So basically, twice yearly hardware updates, once yearly major software releases. iOS 5 should have been named iOS 4.5, so that full-number hardware releases would be in sync with the iOS version. Perhaps they'll correct the sync eventually.
But iOS 5 is every bit as major as 4.0 and 3.0 (though perhaps not 2.0) were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
I think it has proved very hard for Apple to keep its software cycle in sync with its hardware cycle.
This.
  quote
addabox
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2011-10-04, 16:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Siri definitely looks amazing. I think the UI is a little weird from the preview videos. And the voice leaves a lot to be desired.

It will be interesting to use and to see how smart it is... right now it's hard to believe it really can decipher what users mean, beyond set phrases.... but it seems like it is capable of doing so.

How does dictation work as far as punctuation? is it like Viavoice where you have to speak punctuation?
Right, I'd be the first to admit it looks amazing but might be quite as amazing in real life. However, I imagine Apple has a strong institutional memory of the Newton's handwriting recognition fiasco, which was pitched as a game changer and became a national punch line-- which makes me suspect that it really functions as advertised. Obviously it can't parse any damn thing you throw at it, but it looks like Apple has thought through a number of natural language scenarios that don't require strict adherence to a script, and Siri can make informed guesses about context-- if whatever you say has a date, place, name, address, query word like how or when or where it will probably do alright. In fact I saw a video of a Siri demo when it was still two years from being released as an iPhone app where the presenter deliberately garbled his word order to simulate being drunk and it had no problem taking his meaning.

The other piece of this is integration. Siri works with Reminders works with Calendar works with email works with location services works Find My Friend works with Address Book etc. Yeah, Android has cross linking but Siri avails itself of everything else the phone "knows" and it kind of seems like, well, yeah, magic.

I believe dictation requires spoken punctuation, but for texting that's hardly burdensome. "Text Linda: I can't come right now comma I have to walk my dog period."

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2011-10-04, 16:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
You aren't fooling anyone.
Dude, pscates detests the current iPod nano. That alone throws a wrench in your "he's a blind Apple fanboy who likes what Apple tells him to like" theory, so drop it.

I can add to his list of Apple gripes further: he always mentions how his relatives always think his old iPhone looks better than the iPhone 4, for example. Of all of pscates' potential faults, "not bitching about Apple minutae" is not one of them.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Brad
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2011-10-04, 16:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post
Newton's handwriting recognition fiasco, which was pitched as a game changer


Never forget.
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psmith2.0
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2011-10-04, 16:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
And it popped up $20 in the last 30 minutes. The market doesn't know what to make of this. To be honest, I don't know either. Will there be lines for a 4S? And if there aren't what will *that* do to the stock?
Oh, I think there will be. There are a lot of people out there still on the 3Gs who never got the 4 (because of their contract timing, or maybe that antenna stuff turned them off)? In addition to that, a gob of people who will be coming off contracts with some other phones, or who, for whatever reason, never got an iPhone before (carrier coverage, budget, pooh-poohed the need for one until they used their friend's, etc.).

Then you got the Sprint people...that'll have to represent a respectable chunk.

You've got the holidays coming up as well...people go nuts and buy $200-300 things for close loved ones, sure. Even in The Economy™, you still see such lavish, generous spending and gift-giving. I have, the past 4-5 years.

I think this will be a huge hit.

This three-month extra wait has helped with that too. I think demand is there.

I don't think a lot of current iPhone 4 owners are going to pay ETF or things like that, but I think there's enough of the above to make it all even out?

Some are acting like it's this horrible thing (working from a negative, like it's an uphill struggle or something Apple has to "undo" or get past).

I simply see it as one of the post popular, attractive cell phones that's ever been just got a hell of a lot nicer, both on the hardware and software front. There's nothing to dislike or apologize for.

And I still maintain - not because I'm an argumentative dick or anything, but because they've had plenty of opportunities to change it by now - that the 3.5" screen is not the minus/downside some many assume. They had a big chance to change that in 2010. They had an even bigger one to do it this time around, with the extra delay and with more of the 4"+ models out there. I'm sure they're getting feedback. They're either sticking to their guns for reasons I mentioned earlier. Or maybe they're waiting for certain sizes or types of displays to become common and easily, predictable acquired?

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2011-10-04 at 17:10.
  quote
psmith2.0
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2011-10-04, 16:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Dude, pscates detests the current iPod nano. That alone throws a wrench in your "he's a blind Apple fanboy who likes what Apple tells him to like" theory, so drop it.

I can add to his list of Apple gripes further: he always mentions how his relatives always think his old iPhone looks better than the iPhone 4, for example. Of all of pscates' potential faults, "not bitching about Apple minutae" is not one of them.
Ah, let it go, Robo. He's just playing around. Something that obvious and plain (when the posts and threads all exist for anyone to read/confirm), and he's calling it "joking" or "not fooling anyone"? He's just having some fun, no worries.



Nobody's that much of a hardhead for real.
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Robo
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2011-10-04, 16:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
It's really more iOS 4.0/iPhone 4; iOS 5.0/iPhone 4.5, though. It simply isn't a major upgrade.
I disagree. I think it's in line with past iPhone updates — maybe not iPhone 3GS -> iPhone 4, but it's certainly more significant than iPhone -> iPhone 3G and iPhone 3G -> iPhone 3GS. And if Apple thought those updates were point updates, they would have called the iPhone 4 the iPhone 2.

Unlike Microsoft's internal Windows restrictions, Apple can call each new iPhone whatever they want. Would it have been somehow deceptive or underhanded to call the iPhone 4S the iPhone 5? I really don't think so.

Anyway.

iOS 4, A4, iPhone 4. iOS 5, A5, iPhone...4S. iOS 6, A6, iPhone ???

...I think the clusterfuck of naming has only just begun.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Robo
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2011-10-04, 16:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
He's just playing around.

[...]

Nobody's that much of a hardhead for real.
I can never quite tell, with him.

  quote
addabox
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2011-10-04, 17:02

Do people make that much of a distinction between hardware and software? I think this plays like a major upgrade because it comes with iOS 5, some features of which are iPhone 4s exclusive, and iOS 5 is a major, major upgrade.

So I can get the latest Android phone with hardware that goes to 11 in ways that don't really do much for me (screens size has kind of maxed out, CPU speed is starting to follow the pointless incrementalism of Pentium days, etc.), and which may or may not run the latest Android build and may or may not get any kind of timely OS updates, or I can get this "minor update" of an iPhone which gives me a host of real usability improvements.

What do I care if the body is unchanged? Apple is signaling that they want to treat their iOS platform like they treated OS X hardware-- something you hang onto for a while while enjoying the fruits of software upgrades. Android land is still playing the phone as bauble game from dumb phone days, something you get bored with like jewelry. Apple is playing the computing platform game.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
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chucker
 
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2011-10-04, 17:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Anyway.

iOS 4, A4, iPhone 4. iOS 5, A5, iPhone...4S. iOS 6, A6, iPhone ???

...I think the clusterfuck of naming has only just begun.
Okay… I give you… iPad 2.
  quote
addabox
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2011-10-04, 17:08

Oh, and by the way, since I haven't seen it mentioned, seems like the rumored (based on a patent application) video stabilization tech made the cut as well. The Apple video makes it look like it works pretty well, and is a welcome update (along with 1080p recording, of course).

While camera phones have mades leaps and bounds in the last few years, rivaling basic digi point and shoots, I've yet to see video from a phone that didn't look either hideously compressed, or laggy, or both. Blown out highs, crushed blacks, rolling shutter distortion-- just nothing to write home about.

So I'm very curious to see if Apple's improved lens assembly, back lit 8MP sensor, processing algorithms and image stabilization can come together to make pleasing video. That alone would be worth it to me.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you slightly and makes you less able to cope until you're completely incapacitated
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2011-10-04, 17:14

I was happy to see that, the video stabilization thing. Not for this time around, but next year when I buy the 4.7" iPhone Xtreme, it'll be part of it (Apple rarely "takes away", so I feel pretty safe assuming that). That's been my one complaint (holy cow! Add it to the list...) about shooting video on my iPhone. It's very jittery and wobbly!

I do it quite a bit. In certain situations it's not as bad or noticeable, but I've had a few nice moments look like they were filmed during a tremor or small quake.

That'll be a nice feature, now that my phone has become my camera/video device this past year.
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jcoley2
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2011-10-04, 17:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Spec wise nice upgrade. I feel no pressing desire to upgrade from the iPhone 4 though. I'll wait for at least another year before upgrading.
+1

Can't see flipping out now my six month old 4 even though my wife gets my hand-me-downs.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
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2011-10-04, 17:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Anyway.

iOS 4, A4, iPhone 4. iOS 5, A5, iPhone...4S. iOS 6, A6, iPhone ???

...I think the clusterfuck of naming has only just begun.
I suspect Apple may eventually do to the iPhone what it's already done for the iPods, MacBooks, etc: Drop the version number and just call it iPhone.
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Wrao
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2011-10-04, 18:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post

There was no big press conference. It was held in a rather small room compared to many other Apple events. There was also no hype whatsoever on Apple's part; even the invite wasn't public.
This cannot be stated enough. So many people have been criticizing Apple because "After all the hype" it was "just" what it was. But pretty much all of that 'hype' was not created by Apple at all. Apple has stoked the fires in the past, but for the most part, they really don't go out of their way to generate excitement in any outlandish fashion. Tech blogs, on the other hand, understand that talking bout Apple in any capacity is major click-bait and exploit that knowledge to the fullest.
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