[Kraetos]

I've long maintained that the launch date for the Verizon iPhone would be Summer 2011.

It makes sense. Qualcomm has recently released a hybrid UMTS-CDMA chipset which would enable one iPhone to work on any carrier. LTE is coming soon, and Verizon's LTE offerings will be much better than AT&Ts for a good while.

However, it's looking more and more like it's going to be January. Why January? Timing. iPhone sales are about to surge like they did last year in Q3/Q4. Q3 gets a spike because of the newly launched iPhone 4, and Q4 gets the holiday spike.

But iPhone sales usually stagnate in Q1, even more so in Q2. This stagnation allowed Android to fight its way into the fray with phones that looked better than the at the time aging 3GS. The screen on the Droid was amazing, for it's time.

But if Apple announces a Verizon compatible iPhone 4 in January, and starts selling it, in, say, March, then methinks that "Droid does" will disappear overnight. Sure, Android will solder on, but what is arguably it's biggest competitive advantage will be nullified.

If Apple decides to be really aggressive about it, they'll drop a controlled leak to the WSJ in early November, to head off Droid Christmas sales.

There are a few things I wonder about, though. Will the rumored January iPhone 4 use the new hybrid chipset? Probably not. It will probably be a CDMA iPhone only, with the hybrid coming as part of iPhone 5.

Will the CDMA iPhone 4 use an RUIM card, or will you be required to manage phone lines at a Verizon store? I'd like to see Apple use RUIM, it would make it much easier for Apple Stores to deal with activation.

I, personally, cant wait for the Verizon iPhone. Not because I plan on switching to Verizon, but because losing iPhone exclusivity will hopefully make AT&T finally get off their asses and fix their damn network.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Kraetos However, it's looking more and more like it's going to be January. Why January? Timing. iPhone sales are about to surge like they did last year in Q3/Q4. Q3 gets a spike because of the newly launched iPhone 4, and Q4 gets the holiday spike.

Now, would that make Apple evil for getting in bed with Verizon?

[Mugge]

Heh! Mr. Ellison might argue that shagging around has no negative impact on ones businessprowess.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Kraetos I, personally, cant wait for the Verizon iPhone. Not because I plan on switching to Verizon, but because losing iPhone exclusivity will hopefully make AT&T finally get off their asses and fix their damn network.

How do you figure? The grass is always greener on the other side.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude Now, would that make Apple evil for getting in bed with Verizon?

No. Is this a serious question?

Google and Verizon, together, drafted a proposal to prohibit net neutrality. Apple has done nothing of the sort.

Originally Posted by chucker How do you figure? The grass is always greener on the other side.

Because it would level the playing field between Verizon and AT&T.

For as long as I can remember, since before iPhone even existed, AT&T (nee Cingular, nee AT&T Wireless) has had the cool phones, and Verizon has had the better network.

Well, if we finally reach a point where the coolest phone is available from both carriers at the same price, suddenly Verizon has an advantage where AT&T as none. AT&T will have to improve their network, or die a slow death of attrition to Verizon as their customers, who they could previously rely on to stay no matter what improvements Verizon made to their network, jump ship.

Are you arguing that AT&T is already doing all they can to improve their network? Because I don't think they are.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Kraetos No. Is this a serious question? Google and Verizon, together, drafted a proposal to prohibit net neutrality. Apple has done nothing of the sort.

Yes, serious question. Did Apple take a stand against the proposal? Or do they support Verizon and Google on this? If they feel strongly opposed, they could decide to not do business with Verizon. So, yes, if you think Verizon is evil for coming out with this proposal, then it is inconsistent not to think Apple is evil if they do business with Verizon. I don't do business with people I consider evil. Do you?

[dmegatool]

Originally Posted by chucker How do you figure? The grass is always greener on the other side.

Hummmm definetly... If you know what i mean.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude Yes, serious question. Did Apple take a stand against the proposal?

No, because Apple doesn't run their mouth about things they have no control over.

Or do they support Verizon and Google on this?

I don't know. But AT&T is against Net Neutrality and Apple hasn't come out in support of them like Google has for Verizon.

If they feel strongly opposed, they could decide to not do business with Verizon.

If Apple decided not to do business with anyone who is against Net Neutrality, then iPhone wouldn't work on any carrier.

You want to sell a mobile phone in the United States? Then you have to make a deal with the devil. That's just the way it is.

I don't do business with people I consider evil. Do you?

Do I do business with entities I personally consider evil? All the time, usually without actively thinking about it. Welcome to capitalism, enjoy your stay.

But would I condone their actions? Would I actively help push their agenda? No, I would not.

Wait, don't you own a Verizon Droid? Was the act of buying the Droid not "doing business" with Verizon? Get off your high horse. If you've purchased food in the past 24 hours, you've probably done business with an entity which does evil things.

Google isn't being evil right now because they are doing business with Verizon. They're being evil right now because they are actively helping Verizon push an evil agenda. There is a huge difference. I can't believe I even have to explain it.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Kraetos If Apple decided not to do business with anyone who is against Net Neutrality, then iPhone wouldn't work on any carrier. You want to sell a mobile phone in the United States? Then you have to make a deal with the devil. That's just the way it is.

Yeah, that's true for Google, as well. And Google said they want to be part of the process, and not let the carriers dictate all the terms, hence the joint proposal. Apple's silence on the issue (as far as I know) is implicit support. If Google is evil, then so is Apple. You can't have it both ways. It doesn't matter that one is vocal, and the other is silent on the issue. Actions, my friend, speak louder than words.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Wait, don't you own a Verizon Droid? Was the act of buying the Droid not "doing business" with Verizon? Get off your high horse. If you've purchased food in the past 24 hours, you've probably done business with an entity which does evil things. Google isn't being evil right now because they are doing business with Verizon. They're being evil right now because they are actively helping Verizon push an evil agenda. There is a huge difference. I can't believe I even have to explain it.

I don't consider any of these companies evil. You do. Just not consistently.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude I don't consider any of these companies evil.

You don't consider Verizon and their anti-net-neutrality stance evil?

Originally Posted by ezkcdude Apple's silence on the issue (as far as I know) is implicit support. If Google is evil, then so is Apple. You can't have it both ways.

No. False dichotomy. When Apple and AT&T issue a joint statement against net neutrality, we'll talk.

Saying nothing is not the same as support. Every time you hear about something evil in the world, do you announce to your friends and family that you are against it? Because if you don't, then what's to stop me from saying you're pro-child labor?

Apple was silent when BP spilled all that oil into the Gulf. Does that mean Apple is pro-spilling oil?

Originally Posted by ezkcdude It doesn't matter that one is vocal, and the other is silent on the issue.

Yes it does! It makes all the difference in the world!

Apple is in no way obligated to respond to every statement Google makes. The act of not responding does not mean Apple is in agreement or opposition. It simply means they haven't responded.

Actions, my friend, speak louder than words.

Google has acted in opposition of net neutrality. Apple has not.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Kraetos You don't consider Verizon and their anti-net-neutrality stance evil?

Nope. I think evil requires a malicious intent. Verizon just wants to make more money, which is not inherently evil. In my opinion.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Kraetos No. False dichotomy. When Apple and AT&T issue a joint statement against net neutrality, we'll talk.

In theory, you may be right. But not in the real world. AT&T will either oppose or support Verizon. And Apple will do the same. They are not excused by silence.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude Nope. I think evil requires a malicious intent.

Well how convenient for you, Mr. "I don't do business with evil entities." Let me tell you something: intentions are meaningless. You can't run around being a jackass and then proclaim "well I wasn't trying to be evil" and expect to be handed a get out of jail free card. Life doesn't work that way.

If you really want a get out of jail free card, you have two options: be a genuine force for good, or have deep pockets, neither of which are guaranteed to work. But if the FCC comes down hard on Verizon, you expect Verizon to say "oh, well, we were just in it for the money" and the FCC to say "oh, okay. Sorry we got in your face?"

Originally Posted by ezkcdude In theory, you may be right. But not in the real world. AT&T will either oppose or support Verizon. And Apple will do the same. They are not excused by silence.

In the real world, AT&T supports Verizon, and in my opinion they can get fucked. In the real world, Apple has no direct control over net neutrality like Verizon and AT&T do, because Apple is not an ISP, and therefore cannot be expected to take a stance on the issue, nor be faulted for not doing so.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Well how convenient for you, Mr. "I don't do business with evil entities." Let me tell you something: intentions are meaningless. You can't run around being a jackass and then proclaim "well I wan't trying to be evil" and expect to be handed a get out of jail free card. Life doesn't work that way.

You asked what I thought "evil" means, not "illegal". Let's not get those two confused. Not all illegal actions are evil. Or is that what you believe?

In the real world, AT&T supports Verizon, and in my opinion they can get fucked. In the real world, Apple has no direct control over net neutrality like Verizon and AT&T do, because Apple is not an ISP, and therefore cannot be expected to take a stance on the issue, nor be faulted for not doing so.

Ok, if that helps you justify your opinion. It's not mine, though. I'm going to bow out of this discussion now, because I don't see either of us budging on the issue. See you in another thread.

[Brad]

Doesn't this belong in Speculation and Rumors?

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by Brad Doesn't this belong in Speculation and Rumors?

Probably. My b.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude You asked what I thought "evil" means, not "illegal". Let's not get those two confused. Not all illegal actions are evil.

What I provided isn't really a definition for illegal. There are plenty of things one can do to be a jackass that aren't illegal.

Or is that what you believe?

No, of course not.

Ok, if that helps you justify your opinion. It's not mine, though. I'm going to bow out of this discussion now, because I don't see either of us budging on the issue. See you in another thread.

Fair enough, but just out of curiosity, until a company explicitly declares they are against something bad, you always assume they are for it?

[Luca]

Wow, lots of philosophy and not much substance in this thread. Can we keep things focused on the rumored Verizon iPhone and skip the morality discussion?

[Xaqtly]

My personal stake in this is that my co-worker/neighbor/bandmate has a Verizon dumbphone and wants an iPhone really, really badly. So he had already decided to move to AT&T and get one in January, but now he's hearing these rumors too so he's thinking maybe he won't have to switch carriers.

I just tell him not to count on rumors. But it sure would be nice for him not to pay the $350 ETF or whatever it is.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by Luca Wow, lots of philosophy and not much substance in this thread. Can we keep things focused on the rumored Verizon iPhone and skip the morality discussion?

Or perhaps it could be transplanted to the "Google sold out" thread?

[Partial]

Must say I'm hoping this bad boy comes to Sprint. I may have to jump on it for my next phone. We'll have to see. It would look a little rough next to a dual-core Android 3.0 device, but we'll see if that comes to fruition. I wish we could get some concrete info sooner than later!

[Eugene]

Summer 2011...what a bold prediction. We all know that there will be a Verizon iPhone in 2012 at the latest, so as dates keep passing the rumor by, it will eventually come true! Also as you realized, the hybrid chipset is a red herring and would have no bearing on the imminent release of a "January" CDMA iPhone.

If you think that Droid will disappear overnight, then I'm afraid you are very narrowminded. Android offers consumers the one thing the iPhone cannot...an alternative. In fact it offers multiple alternatives, and in a society where counter-culture and backlash are cool, it's a strong selling point.

[addison]

Apple can't even produce enough phones to supply AT&T so I can't imagine they would launch a phone for Verizon in a few months. It's best for them to wait six months or more and then launch with 4G support which fits in with the device timetable for LTE. As for Sprint? You might as well plan on getting the Android 3.0 device

[Robo]

I don't know. I think, when the iPhone goes multi-carrier, it'll go multi-carrier. That's pretty much what happened as the exclusivity agreements ended in all the other territories. I think Android's swift rise (and their relative inability to do anything about it) caught Apple by surprise — the iPhone was "five years ahead of any other phone," remember? Once bitten, twice shy — Apple is smart enough not to sign another long-term agreement with Verizon.

It should at least hit Sprint, since such a phone would be identical to the Verizon version (no, I don't think they're going to go LTE initially). Making a T-Mobile version would require the addition of the Band IV, but remember -- according to the FCC, the iPhone 4 is already an (unadvertised) pentaband device. All they'd have to do is switch Band VI out for Band IV on iPhones sold in North America and they'd be able to hit T-Mobile (and, incidentally, WIND and Mobilicity in Canada).

[Bonn89]

I have a sinking feeling that the iPhone may not be coming to Verizon, if only because all Verizon's "sketchy" actions lately ("Droid Does", this "net-neutrality" mumbo-jumbo with Google) won't exactly appeal to Apple.

Still, being a midcoast-Maine-er with an iPhone, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat if we got a Verizon iPhone, especially if it was a regular old CDMA phone that didn't require some extra-expensive 4G data plan.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by St Bonney Still, being a midcoast-Maine-er with an iPhone, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat if we got a Verizon iPhone, especially if it was a regular old CDMA phone that didn't require some extra-expensive 4G data plan.

It'll require an extra-expensive 3G data plan. This is Verizon we're talking about. AT&T and Verizon have always matched their rates to a T. (Verizon has yet to match AT&T's move to tiered "DataPlus" and "DataPro" pricing, but they will soon enough; execs at both companies have gleefully discussed the coming end of "unlimited" data for years. AT&T just fired first.)

An iPhone on T-Mobile or Sprint (or, dare I say, Virgin Mobile?) would provide a most welcome option for the value crowd, however.

[psmith2.0]

I can't wait for the day the iPhone is on the "big four"(?) here in the U.S. (I call them that, only because AT&T, Verizon, Sprint and T-Mobile are the only cell phone companies I see running commercials and print ads 24/7, so they're the only ones I'm really aware of). Plus, everyone I know - everyone - is on one of those four.

How great would that be? Spread some of the misery (in terms of everyone's pet, "perfect" network finally experiencing all the shit they give AT&T for), and people don't have to leave companies they've been with, and like, to get an iPhone.

Apple won't be able to make them fast enough.

Hell, they're on one carrier now here in the U.S. and can't seem to produce them fast enough, so maybe the above isn't such a hot idea...you'd order one on June 20 and maybe get it the following February? I'm guessing they'd have to involve some other factories and partners. They kinda need to now, IMO. Teach them how to use some white paint or something...I'd hate to have to bust out the Krylon here at some point.

[Robo]

Pscates: You're right — Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile (in that order) are the big nationwide carriers. You can remember them by remembering that they cover the V.A.S.T. majority of consumers.

Even the smallest, T-Mobile (which still serves the equivalent of the entire population of Canada, let's keep things in perspective here), has about five times the customers of the next largest operator. After T-Mobile it's all regional operators, or ultra-cheap prepaid "metro" carriers that focus on dirt-cheap calling on phones from Chinese companies like ZTE and Huawei. (Bizarrely, metroPCS is about to launch the first LTE network in the US, but for them it's all about reducing the cost of providing voice minutes, not providing faster speeds.)

[Bonn89]

Originally Posted by Robo It'll require an extra-expensive 3G data plan. This is Verizon we're talking about. AT&T and Verizon have always matched their rates to a T. (Verizon has yet to match AT&T's move to tiered "DataPlus" and "DataPro" pricing, but they will soon enough; execs at both companies have gleefully discussed the coming end of "unlimited" data for years. AT&T just fired first.) An iPhone on T-Mobile or Sprint (or, dare I say, Virgin Mobile?) would provide a most welcome option for the value crowd, however.

I already pay $15/month for AT&T's 200mb 3G plan (although I only ever encounter areas of Edge service where I live). If Verizon matched DataPlus and DataPro, with similar capacities at the same prices, I would go to Verizon and bump up to their equivalent of "DataPro" (~2GB/month), as having 3G coverage would inevitably lead to more data usage.

Just so long as those dirtballs at Verizon don't charge MORE for the equivalent amounts of data, I'd be all set.

Hell, while Apple's at it, a US Cellular iPhone would work too! Great, local 3G (I believe) coverage here in the midcoast area, and ultra cheap plans.

EDIT: Screw that, a bare-bones US Cellular plan for the Samsung Acclaim Android phone is almost $80/month. I pay around $66/month on AT&T now, thanks to DataPlus + Student Discounts.