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Possible iPod Flash Photos?!


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Possible iPod Flash Photos?!
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naren
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2004-12-07, 16:37

www.themacmind.com has published photos pertaining to be those of the rumered iPod flash model analysts have been claiming that Apple will be releasing soon. The page has been /.'ed so you might have a hard time reaching it, here's the photo. http://homepage.mac.com/nfhulsin8025/PhotoAlbum14.html

some links:

http://www.i.themacmind.com/

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl...610228&tid=176

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BuonRotto
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2004-12-07, 17:10

Note that it's their own rendering/interpretation of the thing. They haven't actually seen one, but it's been described to them by their two sources.
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naren
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2004-12-07, 17:54

I don't see how it'd work without a screen, I'm highly doubtful.
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Paul
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2004-12-07, 19:32

make it a usb or firewire keychain and I'd be on board... if there is less then a gig of space, then I'd just keep the thing on random anyway...

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kscherer
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2004-12-07, 22:55

I cannot see Apple doing this. The interface is what really draws people. The ability to navigate the iPod with ease is critical. Without the screen, Apple is just building another troublesome trinket.

No way!

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BarracksSi
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2004-12-07, 23:22

I want an Apple flash audio player so that I can have something that interfaces as well with iTunes as my 3G iPod, can play the AAC files I've bought through iTMS, and has a kickass interface.

I love how this one looks, but I don't see how it'll work that well without a screen. But, there are other players out there that have no screen either, right? And, since I'd mainly use it for physical activities, I might not need to bother with having to look at it.

Hmm....
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BarracksSi
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2004-12-07, 23:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracksSi
I love how this one looks, but I don't see how it'll work that well without a screen....
Hmmm again --

What if it slides open, and there's a screen inside? Imagine the iPod mini's screen sliding under its scroll wheel, which would be as small as this supposed mockup.

It'll still have to be thick enough on at least one half to fit an audio jack and FW socket (which would be more portable than a dock connector, honestly), but a lil' thing like that wouldn't end up being too fat anyway.
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Maciej
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2004-12-08, 00:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracksSi
Hmmm again --

What if it slides open, and there's a screen inside? Imagine the iPod mini's screen sliding under its scroll wheel, which would be as small as this supposed mockup.
I suppose thats possible, but it would probably be pretty expensive. I think with the Flash iPod Apple is going to try targeting the lower end of the market, sub 100$ or circa 100$. However I do agree with the general disinterest in the presented interface, and the interface is what initially drew people to the iPod, IIRC. If Apple did manage to create an audio player comparable in size to a keychain, I would be both amazed and on board, 100%. It would be wonderful for mundane tasks like working out and ... sneaking into class.

I don't agree with the interface, tho sadly I cannot offer any alternatives that will fit the size specs exhibited here. Perhaps a few line display with no playlists and just song selection capabilities. I don't know. I am eager to hear more news of this.

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Maciej
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2004-12-08, 00:20

Come to think of it, a battery would probably be a pretty major size constraint, it might be flash but how much power does it need?

- I am inexperienced in the power requirements of flash, I might be wrong.

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bborofka
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2004-12-08, 00:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer
I cannot see Apple doing this. The interface is what really draws people. The ability to navigate the iPod with ease is critical. Without the screen, Apple is just building another troublesome trinket.

No way!
Unfortunately, some people aren't drawn to the iPod because of its price, me included. This is perfect for people that don't want a $250+ iPod and don't need their whole library with them.

No screen? While it would be nice to see something like a track number, I can live without it especially if it reduces cost and size. I'm sure Apple will do it right.
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byzantium
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2004-12-08, 03:18

If you check out the MWSF thread, I mentioned a flash ipod with no screen on Nov 29th -- based on what I heard from a friend who works for the design firm that was contracted out for it.

I think no screen isn't as big a deal as some may think. If it only has a storage of 256 mb -- that holds only 64 tracks @ 4 mb a track. Not exactly alot. Even at 512 mb, that's only about 128 tracks. That sounds like a device that's meant to hold songs for a specific purpose -- maybe working out at the gym or a weekend trip. At that capacity, I know I would just put my favorite tracks on it.

The design that macmind has shown, btw, is a mockup. I'm assured the real thing looks much nicer than you might think, and the dimensions are different.

As for those who don't think Apple could compete with this without a screen in a very competitive flash market; well I think Apple is leveraging iTunes and the music store. I know I wouldn't buy a player that doesn't work with iTunes and protected AAC. Apple's the leader in the music place right now, there is no reason not to buy an iPod if it's the same price as another, not as compatible device.
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oldmacfan
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2004-12-08, 09:25

Good Morning, the biggest worries I have seen around the net is the no screen issue. If apple comes out with a screenless iPod, they could do a very simple UI with spoken prompts and user feedback through the controls. You wouldn't just dump 64-256 songs on it, you would put in playlists through iTunes and that would help give it a more manageable structure.

Mile 1
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Messiahtosh
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2004-12-08, 10:03

I still refuse to believe that Apple will release a screenless-iPod.
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DMBand0026
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2004-12-08, 10:40

Same here. I don't think it'll look like that. The slick user interface is one of the biggest reasons for the iPod's success. That thing...it might as well just be a hunk of plastic with a button or two. Nothing that screams "Apple."

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JLL
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2004-12-08, 11:20

Perhaps a Play/Pause button would be nice to have on a player.
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applenut
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2004-12-08, 11:35

bullllllshit

no screen, no deal.

people who believe this crap are dumbasses. you think Apple. who's main selling point and success has been its simple and intuitive interface is all of a sudden going to ditch that? you think they are going to release a 64MB Flash player that only fits a dozen songs and that Jobs has been talking shit about and saying that's exactly the WRONG experience for listening to music.

If they DO release a flash based MP3 player it will be a 1 or 2GB player in the iPod mini case. The iPod mini's hard drive is already as small as a flash card. The size advantage is non-existent. All they have to do is swap in a cheaper drive or card and they have a cheap flash based MP3 player
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psmith2.0
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2004-12-08, 11:50

Charming, and sweet, as always.
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MCQ
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2004-12-08, 12:02

I'm in the "no screen, no way" camp... and even though it's a mockup I hate the design. In any case, at least it couldn't be as bad as this:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Godot_Aria_M...-31077839.html



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oldmacfan
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2004-12-08, 12:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by applenut
bullllllshit

no screen, no deal.

people who believe this crap are dumbasses. you think Apple. who's main selling point and success has been its simple and intuitive interface is all of a sudden going to ditch that? you think they are going to release a 64MB Flash player that only fits a dozen songs and that Jobs has been talking shit about and saying that's exactly the WRONG experience for listening to music.

If they DO release a flash based MP3 player it will be a 1 or 2GB player in the iPod mini case. The iPod mini's hard drive is already as small as a flash card. The size advantage is non-existent. All they have to do is swap in a cheaper drive or card and they have a cheap flash based MP3 player
Um, did you actually read what I wrote, before responding...(64 songs does not equal 64 MB) and I used the word "If" to suggest a possible new user interface that is technologically feasible and potentially more user friendly than the present one.

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709
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2004-12-08, 12:15

FWIW, Sanada (applele.com) has thrown his 2 cents in:

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madmaxmedia
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2004-12-08, 12:18

Just to play devil's advocate-

To say that it's complete nonsense just because it's not just like an iPod or iPod Mini is a little too conventional thinking IMO.

If Apple were to design a flash player with 1 GB or less, I am sure they really studied user habits of these types of devices vs. a multi-GB player. When they are used, how they are used (or could be used), etc. In particular, how one might design a 256 MB to 1 GB player so that it wouldn't be tossed in a drawer. Maybe $99 is still too low a price, but if it had the iPod Mini design then $199 may still be too low, and then there's only very marginal benefit to a flash iPod Mini vs. a regular iPod Mini. So if anything, if Apple does do a flash player then maybe something out of left field is to be expected (more exciting this way too!)

This would be just as the original iPod, which at first drew a collective "Huh?" from everyone. Innovative new design doesn't come from dupllicating 1 design all the way down the line, it comes from designing for the particular application.

In general, I agree with the doubts expressed about a mp3 player without a screen, but who knows. Maybe there is some new software features that differentiate this from their other players, with very tight iTunes integration. Someone else mentioned using shuffle a lot, what if with iTunes it automatically swapped out the existing songs with new ones (based on stuff like user rating, selected genre, tempo, user generated playlists, smart playlists, or even completely at random if you're feeling wild) with a single command in iTunes (or automatically when you docked it.) I think the basic idea would be to minimize the work involved in swapping songs, and keeping things fresh. That would make the most of the limited storage, and might represent a new way of using these smaller flash players. You get something fresh every time, just like listening to the radio. And doing this has to be very fast, literally seconds so people don't get impatient, which is why it would use Firewire vs. USB 1.

If they can doing something innovative like this, then they can get away with a very simple and small design, AND they can sell it starting at $99. Think about how stripped down the pictured player is vs. even a typical cheapie player. By leveraging a user's $1000+ computer as much as possible, they can cut the price of the player as much as possible.

Starting at $99, it would be an impulse buy for even existing iPod owners, who now hav something to carry when they go exercise (rather than risk dropping or damaging a $500 iPod.) Also, with this type of interface, it may not really matter whether you have 256 MB or 512 MB, since songs get swapped out so frequently anyways.

If you don't like that, then get an iPod Mini or iPod and you can have a more conventional player without the capacity limitation.

My wife and father-in-law have Rio Nitrus players. They are great little units, but the problem is they have never actually switched the songs! They're just not very tech-savvy, and as a result don't realize the benefits of these players, and end up not using the players much. I think this is why many flash players end up gathering dust, not just because of the limited capacity. It's all about the overall user experience, not about specs (specs of course play a part, but do not in themselves represent the ultimate success or failure of a product.) People weren't impressed by the iPod's specs, but obviously the end result was greater than the specs themselves.

Also, maybe there's more on the other side...some sort of button to help with navigation?
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oldmacfan
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2004-12-08, 12:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by applenut
bullllllshit

no screen, no deal.

people who believe this crap are dumbasses. you think Apple. who's main selling point and success has been its simple and intuitive interface is all of a sudden going to ditch that? you think they are going to release a 64MB Flash player that only fits a dozen songs and that Jobs has been talking shit about and saying that's exactly the WRONG experience for listening to music.

If they DO release a flash based MP3 player it will be a 1 or 2GB player in the iPod mini case. The iPod mini's hard drive is already as small as a flash card. The size advantage is non-existent. All they have to do is swap in a cheaper drive or card and they have a cheap flash based MP3 player
While I am at it, if Apple actually releases a flash based iPod, and if Apple gets rid of the screen, they have the potential to make an even higher profit margin than that of the other iPod lines while tapping a market segment that is not yet served by Apple with an iPod.

Mile 1
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thegelding
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2004-12-08, 12:48

i'm with paul...i would likely put songs i love on it or songs i love to run, bike, exercise too on it, and then have it set to random...no screen needed...
changing out the songs every couple of days or every couple of weeks...

i have an iPod to take on trips and in the car and such already with my full sized iPod
the iPod egg would be just for exercise, at least for me


this would not be an iPod to take your songs to a friends house, or for a party or rave or three week trip

that is what the 4g iPod is for and even the iPod mini

a screen would be nice, but not a deal breaker for me
small and light is the key for me

but then i have a 3g and an iPod mini so i am apple's bitch anyways

g

edit: that being said, i would prefer a screen, i would prefer it to go with an armband rather than hang around my neck and bounce about while running

and i would feel better if thinksecret or macrumors was picking this rumor up also... till then it is fairly questionable data

edit 2: an underwater model would be nice for us swimmers

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everything is food if you chew hard enough

Last edited by thegelding : 2004-12-08 at 14:25.
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Escher
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2004-12-08, 15:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709
FWIW, Sanada (applele.com) has thrown his 2 cents in:

Now that is a nice design! Isamu Sanada has been cranking out the best mockups for a decade longer than pscates has. I worship them both.

I like the round design. My wish for Apple's Flash iPod is a 1 - 2GB flash player that is water-/splash-proof for running and the gym (and of course completely skip-proof due to the solid-state flash memory). I'm thinking of a cross between Sony's original Sports Walkman, Rio's current Forge (and the older Cali) sports-oriented MP3 player, and Apple's iPod mini.

I'm still iPod-less. And I'll be hobbling along with my wife's Sony Sports CD Walkman until Apple releases a Flash iPod. I don't want no stinking HDD!

Escher

I've been waiting for a true sub-PowerBook for more than 10 years. The 11-inch MacBook Air finally delivers on all counts! It beats the hell out of both my PowerBook 2400c and my 12-inch PowerBook G4 -- no contest whatsoever.
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BuonRotto
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2004-12-08, 15:24

Actually, the problems with that mock-up are that it would be hard to hold and not press or scroll by accident, the screen text there would have to be miniscule unless the thing is the size of a CD, and the wasted area around the display is -- what exactly? Looks OK, doesn't pass industrial design 101 IMO.
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thegelding
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2004-12-08, 15:31

think of it this way:

they release a simple, cheap flash player (no frills) for 99 bucks
a waterproof, gym-rat flash model for 149
have the iPod mini at 199 to 249 (4 gig model and new 6 gig model)
have the iPod classic for storing songs, photos and files

why would anybody buy an mp3/music player from anybody but apple??

g

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psmith2.0
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2004-12-08, 15:34

Ha...I have a fan in Escher!

I sorta like the round thing above, but that square screen just seems plopped in there, in that circle, and not quite elegant or fitting. No, I'm not suggesting a round screen (SMACK!).

Perhaps those gray arcs/wedges should just be white and NOT emphasing the circle aspect in that particular area? If those gray wedges were just white, like the rest of the thing, and the little square screen simply floated in a sea of white (uh, like the current iPod? ), it would look a bit more cohesive and dialed-in, IMO.



However, I have to agree with BuonRotto above...seems like a lot of wasted space, making for a really small, unusable screen (postage stamp sized, from what I can estimate?). Not quite sure what I think of the actual DESIGN (the execution, of course, is amazing...as always). Just not completely sold on the "doughnut" approach, overall. I'd like to see it in some sort of scale, because the earbuds just don't register with me.

Maybe that would help.


Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2004-12-08 at 15:43.
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Escher
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2004-12-08, 15:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
Ha...I have a fan in Escher!
Bow down. But Isamu Sanada still has a leg up on you, Paul.

Quote:
I like the round thing above, but that square screen just seems plopped in there, in that circle, and not quite elegant or fitting. No, I'm not suggesting a round screen (SMACK!), but if that square screen was gone, it would look much better.
Actually, the Rio Forge looks like it has a round screen. I think it's perfect in terms of size and shape. Main issue is that it has a (relatively) lousy interface and doesn't play AAC songs.



Apple can't make a Flash iPod soon enough. For all I care, they could slap a rubber case on an iPod mini and swap the 4GB HDD for a 1GB CF card and I'd be happy.

Escher

I've been waiting for a true sub-PowerBook for more than 10 years. The 11-inch MacBook Air finally delivers on all counts! It beats the hell out of both my PowerBook 2400c and my 12-inch PowerBook G4 -- no contest whatsoever.
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psmith2.0
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2004-12-08, 15:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escher
Bow down. But Isamu Sanada still has a leg up on you, Paul.
Yes he does. I would never think otherwise.

I love looking at his site, and if I ever DO get into, and learn, a proper 3D illustration app, he'll be the main inspiration why.



For now, I just stick with what I know and what I can handle...good ol' Illustrator! Frankly, I think I've carved out a respectable little niche for myself over the years with my approach, if all the e-mails, PMs, iChat invites/introductions from strangers, questions, requests for tips, etc. are any indication! I've popped into places - even non-Mac-related forums or chats - and it seems someone will always go "hey, aren't you that guy...". Those two pages in that new book don't hurt either, I'm learning! Blows my mind, to be honest.



Mellow, low-level popularity and attention, minus all the baggage and hassle that accompanies full-blown fame (no stolen sex videos and whatnot).



I got NO complaints.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2004-12-08 at 16:04.
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Messiahtosh
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2004-12-08, 15:51

This is the rio cali. The rio cali is the product that Steve Jobs slammed a year ago, when touting the iPod mini's design.

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