User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » AppleOutsider »

Flag Burning Amendment


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
View Poll Results: Flag burning amendment
all for it, old glory needs us 5 6.94%
completely against, will cause more flags to be burned 45 62.50%
don't give a @%#*, where's my bong 9 12.50%
wouldn't mind it, but other things seem much more important at this time 13 18.06%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

Flag Burning Amendment
Page 1 of 9 [1] 2 3 4 5  Next Last Thread Tools
thegelding
feeling my oats
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: there are nice people here...that makes me happy
Send a message via AIM to thegelding  
2005-06-23, 10:02

ok...in the news...want to see what people think

personally i don't really care one way or the other except:

right now it is rare to see a flag burned...if we make it illegal we will likely see many flags burned

we as a country couldn't get a equal rights amendment for women (over 50 percent of our population and our mothers, sisters, daughters) yet we can get one to protect our flag?? i would gladly sign for a flag amendment if the right signs for an equal rights amendment...but i have a distaste for putting the flag ahead of my mother, my wife, my daughters

anyway...your thoughts

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-23, 10:10

I am all for it, but there are far more important stuff going on right now. The Gay rights seems to be the biggest issue needing to be addressed, Iraq, War on Terror, etc. People who burn our flag needs to get out. Go to Canada or somewhere. I am sure Murbot will happily except you. Please don't say, " It is just piece of cloth." That is ignorant.

giggity
  quote
johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-23, 10:12

I'd prefer a "don't give a @%#*, other things seem much more important at this time" option.
  quote
johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-23, 10:13

It's just a piece of cloth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker
The Gay rights seems to be the biggest issue needing to be addressed
...
People who burn our flag needs to get out.
...
That is ignorant.
The only ignorance I see is that you are intolerant and oblivious to the freedoms this country is founded upon.

You're free to say what you want but you have no right to harass, limit, or deport (you'd love to) people for expressing themselves freely.

This is the U.S., it isn't just your country, you have to share it with countless other types of people. Deal with it.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein

Last edited by johnq : 2005-06-23 at 10:23.
  quote
AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2005-06-23, 10:30

Against it.

To me, it's not the flag itself which is important, but what it stands for (or should stand for - and tolerance must be one of those things). And G you make a couple of good points: ban it and rate of incidence increases for sure (flag burning arrests will take up 25 minutes of FoxNews' hourly coverage "Mother of 5 burns flag while children remain hypmotized by reruns of the A Team") and also, to make an amendment to the Constitution for flag burning before Equal Rights is definitely wrong.

Issues like these (see also gay marriage, etc.) seem to come up during election cycles.

Are there really so many people burning the flag these days that we should be hauling them in the paddy wagon for crimes prohibited by the Constitution? Burning flags and banning it both seem a bit childish, really.

Last edited by AWR : 2005-06-23 at 10:35.
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2005-06-23, 10:31

I would never burn an American flag unless the flag burning amendment was ratified. Then I'd go hog wild.
  quote
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2005-06-23, 10:38

Why haven't we learned from the gilded calf?
  quote
EmC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Columbus, Georgia
 
2005-06-23, 10:39

It really is of no concern to me, pass the amendment or don't. I don't care. This is one of those things for the congressmen and senators to do so that it looks like they are getting something accomplished in their deadlocked highly partisan politics. I love it when a politician says that they want to be bi-partisan or non-partisan. I always chuckle to myself because I know what it means. It means that they are willing to work with anyone who will change their mind and agree with them.

On the flag issue; I just think it is stupid, as an expression of our 1st amendment rights, to burn a symbol of those rights. Seems a little ironic to me.

What Adobe Updater‽ What‽ What‽ WHAT‽
  quote
ast3r3x
25 chars of wasted space.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to ast3r3x  
2005-06-23, 10:50

Wait till silentechos hears about this, he'll give you his opinion

I said this to him earlier, and I'll put it here because I like it so much...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Douglas - The American President
America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2005-06-23, 10:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky
Why haven't we learned from the gilded calf?
Because Charlton Heston fully supports this amendment.
  quote
johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-23, 10:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmC
On the flag issue; I just think it is stupid, as an expression of our 1st amendment rights, to burn a symbol of those rights. Seems a little ironic to me.
You can burn the flag in defiance of a corrupt administration (for example) or illegal/immoral war, and still have love for the idea of America and it's freedoms. There's nothing "unamerican" in an American burning the flag.

There is no dichotomy.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2005-06-23, 10:51

But at the same time, banning flag burning is trampling on the constitution. That's why I'm so opposed to it.

Look, I hate GWB. I think he's a liar, a cheater, a power tripper, and is only concerned for himself and his rich friends. Despite all this, I still consider myself a patriot because I have great faith in our system of government. Whatever happens... at the end of the day, at least we have our freedoms.

An amendment to prohibit flag burning is tantamount to repealing the first amendment. You can't make laws in the constitution - they would have to word it so that the first amendment doesn't apply to certain situations. Even if these situations are very particular, it's still an exception, and as such I'm opposed to it. I can no longer feel any pride in my country if they decide to throw away the one thing I love the most about it.
  quote
almostwise
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: West michigan
 
2005-06-23, 10:52

I don't care one way or another on this particular issue, however this country was built on dissent, and the right to disagree. The one thing that troubles me, is we keep passing laws that will put more people in jail. We already have more people in jails and prisons then any country on earth. This is mostly because we force our law enforcement officials to go after and jail people for relatively minor stuff. Let's concentrate on making our streets safer, before we come up with more reasons to jail people.
  quote
Franz Josef
Passing by
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
 
2005-06-23, 10:57

You need to let people burn your flag.
  quote
ghoti
owner for sale by house
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
2005-06-23, 10:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnq
There's nothing "unamerican" in an American burning the flag.
The word "unamerican" gives me the creeps. Maybe it's because it's just a little too close to "undeutsch" (ungerman) - and we all know what that led to. This is really, really dangerous.

And besides, what does "unamerican" mean, anyway? Are all Americans the same? Do they all do the same things? Is it really possible to point at something and say "This is clearly and undoubtedly unamerican"? And isn't what an American does American, by definition - including burning the flag?
  quote
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2005-06-23, 11:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoti
The word "unamerican" gives me the creeps. Maybe it's because it's just a little too close to "undeutsch" (ungerman) - and we all know what that led to. This is really, really dangerous.

And besides, what does "unamerican" mean, anyway? Are all Americans the same? Do they all do the same things? Is it really possible to point at something and say "This is clearly and undoubtedly unamerican"? And isn't what an American does American, by definition - including burning the flag?
It has insidious use in this country post WWII, especially in regards to McCarthyism...
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-06-23, 11:05

It doesn't concern me.

I'd never do it, but I realize it would take a lot of fun away for various college students and other assorted dipshits to "make a statement". Heaven forbid I ever got in the way of that.



I do hate to see it, but it's a quirky thing, isn't it? I mean, it represents freedom and all that, the very thing one could make a case for WHEN burning the flag. I guess you have to take it ALL, the good and the not-so-good.

I'd never do it. I think it's a empty, boneheaded gesture. The kind of thing 19-year-old "activist" types (away from home for the first time) do to enhance their "Down With The Man" cred. If others want to, knock yourselves out...always a chance they'll catch their sleeve or hair on fire and provide some genuine chuckles and entertainment for the rest of us.

Remember your fire safety stuff...stop, drop and roll.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2005-06-23 at 11:08.
  quote
murbot
Hoonigan
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2005-06-23, 11:07

What a ridiculous waste of time.

Although, I guess a wild increase in flag burning would create more employment for the flag manufacturers, and a boost to the economy. Fucking brilliant!
  quote
Franz Josef
Passing by
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
 
2005-06-23, 11:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoti
The word "unamerican" gives me the creeps. Maybe it's because it's just a little too close to "undeutsch" (ungerman) - and we all know what that led to. This is really, really dangerous.

And besides, what does "unamerican" mean, anyway? Are all Americans the same? Do they all do the same things? Is it really possible to point at something and say "This is clearly and undoubtedly unamerican"? And isn't what an American does American, by definition - including burning the flag?
I'd echo that - the word "unamerican" presses all the wrong buttons for me.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-06-23, 11:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by murbot
What a ridiculous waste of time.

Although, I guess a wild increase in flag burning would create more employment for the flag manufacturers, and a boost to the economy. Fucking brilliant!
Yeah, and that fucker BUSH probably has THEM in his back pocket TOO, huh?!?!






  quote
ohara
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ellen Feiss, née Robert
 
2005-06-23, 11:24

LoLz - FLaG BuRnInG
shout out to durkheim and tillich.
  quote
DMBand0026
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
 
2005-06-23, 11:59

I personally would not burn a flag without proper motivation, and thus far I have not found such motivation. However, if you have a good reason to burn a flag, I say burn it. It's freedom of speech, and that shouldn't be taken away. Actions speak louder than words, and in this case the actions are speaking very loudly. But people who burn flags just to be dicks, that's ignorant and disrespectful.

So if you have a good reason to burn, than burn. But if you don't, than show some respect.

Come waste your time with me
  quote
scratt
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: M-F: Thailand Weekends : F1 2010 - Various Tracks!
Send a message via Skype™ to scratt 
2005-06-23, 12:05

For God's sake it's just a piece of cloth.

Worshipping a flag is just another form of idolitary.

Rather you value your fellow man (or woman) than pledge allegiance to some ideal which is now passing laws to bulldoze your homes in the name of capitalism.

It's very eerie when I see people so obsessed with an object.
And this almost nationalistic obsession with an image is, as has already been pointed out, very similar to the kind of nationalism which bread Nazi-ism.

*steps to one side to avoid swirling flames*

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt

Last edited by scratt : 2005-06-23 at 12:09.
  quote
ast3r3x
25 chars of wasted space.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to ast3r3x  
2005-06-23, 12:16

double post

Last edited by ast3r3x : 2005-06-23 at 12:18.
  quote
ast3r3x
25 chars of wasted space.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via AIM to ast3r3x  
2005-06-23, 12:18

It's not just a piece of cloth, I am for the right to burn it, but have never felt the need or wanted to burn it.

I am currently opposed to much of what the government is doing, but it's not just a piece of cloth. Here is another thing I enjoyed when I heard it...

Quote:
I am the flag of the United States of America.
My name is Old Glory.
I fly atop the world's tallest buildings.
I stand watch in America's halls of justice.
I fly majestically over institutions of learning.
I stand guard with power in the world.
Look up and see me.

I stand for peace, honor, truth and justice.
I stand for freedom.
I am confident.
I am arrogant.
I am proud.

When I am flown with my fellow banners, my head is a little higher,
my colors a little truer.

I bow to no one!
I am recognized all over the world.
I am worshipped - I am saluted.
I am loved - I am revered.
I am respected - and I am feared.

I have fought in every battle of every war for more then 200 years.
I was flown at Valley Forge, Gettysburg, Shiloh and Appomattox.
I was there at San Juan Hill, the trenches of France,
in the Argonne Forest, Anzio, Rome and the beaches of
Normandy, Guam. Okinawa, Korea and KheSan, Saigon,
Vietnam know me.
I was there.
I led my troops,
I was dirty, battleworn and tired, but my soldiers cheered me.
And I was proud.

I have been burned, torn and trampled on the streets
of countries I have helped set free.
It does not hurt, for I am invincible.

I have been soiled upon, burned, torn and trampled on the streets of my country.
And when it's by those whom I've served in battle- it hurts.
But I shall overcome - for I am strong.

I have slipped the bonds of Earth and stood watch over the uncharted frontiers of space from my vantage point on the moon.
I have borne silent witness to all of America's finest hours.
But my finest hours are yet to come.

When I am torn into strips and used as bandages for my
wounded comrades on the battlefield,
When I am flown at half-mast to honor my soldier,
Or when I lie in the trembling arms of a grieving
parent at the grave of their fallen son or daughter,
I am proud.

MY NAME IS OLD GLORY - LONG MAY I WAVE
  quote
AWR
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: State of Flux
 
2005-06-23, 12:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
But at the same time, banning flag burning is trampling on the constitution. That's why I'm so opposed to it.

Look, I hate GWB. I think he's a liar, a cheater, a power tripper, and is only concerned for himself and his rich friends. Despite all this, I still consider myself a patriot because I have great faith in our system of government. Whatever happens... at the end of the day, at least we have our freedoms.

An amendment to prohibit flag burning is tantamount to repealing the first amendment. You can't make laws in the constitution - they would have to word it so that the first amendment doesn't apply to certain situations. Even if these situations are very particular, it's still an exception, and as such I'm opposed to it. I can no longer feel any pride in my country if they decide to throw away the one thing I love the most about it.
I'm sure what they are/would try to do (is anyone following the actual debate on this issue??) is compare it to 'Hate Speech', which is not protected by the first amendment. But, imo, burning the flag is merely an attempt to be disrespectful, it does not rise to the level of Hate Speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
  quote
Englishman
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2005-06-23, 12:45

Does this apply to the european flag? Love to burn one of them
  quote
autodata
hustlin
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-06-23, 12:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWR
'Hate Speech', which is not protected by the first amendment.
Yes it is, and it should be. A classic article on why freedom of this kind of speech actually leads to greater tolerance is: Thomas I. Emerson, "Toward a General Theory of the First Amendment," 72 Yale Law Journal, 876, 876-886 (1963)

Last edited by autodata : 2005-06-23 at 13:06.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2005-06-23, 13:32

Unfortunately, the poll is too limited, so I shant vote!

I hate seeing our flag burn - it disgusts me, and anyone who wants to burn it for political reasons should pack up their crap and head for China. HOWEVER, our Constitution provides us with the right to demonstrate, up to and including dissention!

Amendment IX:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

In other words, certain rights not defined BY the constitution are retained by the people. Obviously the government has the capacity, and the constitutionally-granted power, to change that through amendment.

But, and this is arguable, there are some things that should be left alone. The government has a tendency to start small and work big. It will begin with US flag-burning, then state-flag burning, then burning anything that has a picture of a flag, then talking about burning a flag, then thinking about it . . .

Most "patriots" think that restricting this kind of behavior will fix ALL of our problems. This will only increase in-fighting and serve to continue the downward spiral of our once-great nation.

If you don't want flag-burners in the country, then we would be much better off returning our troops to our borders and stop letting the bastards in!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
BarracksSi
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington, DC
 
2005-06-23, 13:42

Speaking as a member of the military -- but not speaking for ALL the military...

This country was founded on revolution. We have the opportunity every four years (in principle, at least) to effectively overthrow the government and install new leadership.

That expression of distaste for the government's actions -- and the ability to do something about it -- is what burning the flag is all about.

Go ahead, impeach the President and send him to jail, and reload all of Congress with new faces. You don't have to worry. This is still gonna be the United States.
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 1 of 9 [1] 2 3 4 5  Next Last

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No more Broadcast Flag! Ebby AppleOutsider 36 2006-07-09 11:09
PC to Mac CD Burning Advice Moogs Genius Bar 8 2005-06-28 04:47
CD-R and CD-RW burning in the Finder theyoda3 Genius Bar 2 2005-06-15 14:49
Can we change the DVD burning status bar viji_99 Genius Bar 0 2005-05-30 11:31
What's with the flag behind the logo? scratt Feedback 2 2004-07-14 09:29


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2024, AppleNova