[Quagmire]

According to yahoo we are going to see a pepsi-itunes deal again. Personally I would try coke-itunes because I drink coke more. Personal speculation aside, it might set off again at the next super bowl.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...tsshotatitunes

[Luca]

Hopefully they don't fuck it up this time.

I think the key is to actually get the caps into people's hands. They need to put them on a lot more different Pepsi products, more than just Pepsi and Sierra Mist. They need to start early to make sure the caps are out by the time the offer starts (is this Apple's "never get anything out the door on time" curse?). They need to run the offer for longer and have the caps be redeemable for much longer. They need more than one bad TV ad promoting it.

[PowerBook]

They also need to figure out how to not make them so you can cheat. I won an iTunes song everytime because I knew how to look under the cap ... before the directions were ever published on the internet. :smokey:

[Eugene]

Free song or not looking like a goofball...
Free song or not looking like a goofball...

I choose not looking like a goofball. And I don't think Pepsi cares enough to change anything.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by PowerBook They also need to figure out how to not make them so you can cheat. I won an iTunes song everytime because I knew how to look under the cap ... before the directions were ever published on the internet. :smokey:

Yeah, that too. It seems as if so many things went wrong with that promotion... I sure hope they learn from experience. But I guess that's why they hired a different company to be in charge of it.

[PXLpainter]

Originally Posted by Luca Hopefully they don't fuck it up this time. I think the key is to actually get the caps into people's hands. They need to put them on a lot more different Pepsi products, more than just Pepsi and Sierra Mist. They need to start early to make sure the caps are out by the time the offer starts (is this Apple's "never get anything out the door on time" curse?). They need to run the offer for longer and have the caps be redeemable for much longer. They need more than one bad TV ad promoting it.

Amen to all of that! We didn't even get the bottles/caps in our area until the week they extended the last contest!

And the only Pepsi product I'll drink is Mt. Dew - so it was really just cheaper to buy a 99� song from the ITMS than it was to spend $1.29 on something I wouldn't buy in the first place!

[psmith2.0]

I harbor no hope whatsoever that this will amount to anything remotely approaching worth-a-shit status.

Why? History tells me so.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but five years of G4 tanks, Goldblum's various stammering insights, "Rip, Mix & Burn", the annoying iBook user on the airplane, Baby Jack, the Switch dorks, the dancing goober with his iPod, the guy getting blown out of his house by a G5 and last year's Pepsi thing all point to a very clear conclusion.



Don't tell me any of those made an impact or mattered in any meaningful, measurable way. We're still at 3% or so, right? And probably will be a year from, even after Tiger and G5 iMacs and dual 3.5GHz G5 towers are commonplace because, as usual, Apple won't lift a finger to aggressively tout said Tiger, G5 iMacs and monster G5s.

[Messiahtosh]

Jesus Christ Paul! Do you realize that Apple does do a ton of advertising and that the only reason the platform still does exist is because the job Apple is doing is extremely effective. Take a look at how many times Apple's name is mentioned int he news, even if the news is about the iPod, the name Apple is always being talked up...and positively.

There are commercials, Apple Stores, billboards, magazine and print ads, cover stories in major news publications, and mail inserts too. What else could they do, that they arent doing?

The iPod is a smashing success, because of the product's merit but also because Apple's marketing budget for the iPod is massive.

Don't think that Apple isnt doing anything, just because not everyone has a Mac. I think it has more to do with unchangeable mind-sets, financial issues, and an overall "who cares" attitude about technology and computers in general, that the general population has.

The Mac faithful love technology, the cutting edge and everything that IS innovation, that's why there will always be a Mac platform...because there will always be people like us.

Now, I would love it if Apple could sell more computers, and the market share figure would rise, and more people would be freed from Windows-but Apple can't hold everyone's hand. Some people wil be swayed by the ads, some will seek out alternatives, and some will be shown the solution by a friend or co-worker...others will just never get it...no matter what.

Apple understands this.

[Ryan]

pscates, I agree that they need more effective advertising, but they already have a ton of billboards. Take a drive through San Francisco and you'll see at least half a dozen.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by CubeDude pscates, I agree that they need more effective advertising, but they already have a ton of billboards. Take a drive through San Francisco and you'll see at least half a dozen.

Maybe more effective, but I do not think volume is a problem. The only thing that is not effective about their ads are the fact that there are none about OS X. That's my only gripe. People know that Apple is different, and to them that's a bad thing, when it should be the opposite.

Apple does a tremendous job advertising their hardware, in my opinion.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh Jesus Christ Paul! Do you realize that Apple does do a ton of advertising and that the only reason the platform still does exist is because the job Apple is doing is extremely effective. Take a look at how many times Apple's name is mentioned int he news, even if the news is about the iPod, the name Apple is always being talked up...and positively.

It's all iPod, isn't it? Pretty much?

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh There are commercials, Apple Stores, billboards, magazine and print ads, cover stories in major news publications, and mail inserts too.

See previous answer.

Originally Posted by Messiahtosh What else could they do, that they arent doing?

Don't ask such a coy, knuckleheaded question...you've been around AppleInsider long damn enough to know exactly what I've talked about they "could be doing". Pay attention, I don't feel like saying it all AGAIN.

I'm glad the iPod is a success. Honestly. I wish they could put 1/5 of that effort into, say, the operating system, maybe? iLife? The consumer-level stuff. The great "whole widget" thing that makes them unique.

I'm not asking Apple to "hold anyone's hand". I'm asking them to realize they have a superior solution and offering, and act accordingly.

Yeah, some people will never get it, no matter what. That's very true. But some people simply don't even know enough or even THINK of Apple to even be able to make that secondary decision. That's what I'm talking about. There's that whole middle-ground of people out there, not terribly happy with Windows but not sure what else is there. When they hear "Apple" or "Macs", their thoughts swirl around System 6 or 7, old systems they used in college or "those funky artists computers that I can't use Microsoft Office on".

There is a decade-plus vault of myths and misinformation Apple could consider addressing, since, in my experience that seems to be the largest hurdle for most normal, rational people considering a Mac. All the crap their co-workers and brother-in-law has told them for years and years, people who haven't touched a Mac beyond OS 8.1, and that was, oh, two times? And because their printer jammed or whatever, they've automatically attributed their less-than-ideal experience to "them damn Macs" (and not the jamming printer or frayed cable or whatever), and have made it a point to tell everyone they know a bunch of baseless bullcrap for a decade or so.

If I ran Apple, yeah I'd realize that some sectors were a lost cause. But you can bet your ass that I'd level the playing field by making really sure that regular, non-Mac geek people out there know the facts, know that things like Office are on Macs, that networking, video-chatting, digital photos and music and video are all easier to manage and work with on the platform, etc.

That's what they're not doing, Chris.

For proof, go ask some non-Mac-using friends, co-workers and family members some basic questions like I talk about above and note their responses. Do they mesh with reality remotely, or reflect a modern OS X/21st Century state-of-the-Mac and Apple? If so, great...but it wasn't from any efforts on Apple's part. Probably just hanging around you and hearing you talk of it.

But you can't be everywhere.

[Messiahtosh]

Maybe it is not possible to do in 30 seconds or in an ad spread?

That's why there are people like us, I have been able to convert many people to the Mac, simply by explaining all of the stuff you have mentioned.

I don't know what to say...The best Apple could do is just come out and cut the shit-art-ad act, and tout their superiority over Windows. If they did that, it would damage the brand image (of the cute and cutting edge,art-like computer firm) but it may make a dent in people's mindset. I dont know.

[psmith2.0]

I'm more than willing to roll the dice on that...

Seriously, I'm not sure how touting themselves - particularly considering the "competition" - damages them or takes away from their image. They don't have to be a dick about it, you know? There's humor. There's compelling visuals. People - for better or worse - tend to listen to celebrities (this week has been a GREAT reminder of that, having seen Ben Affleck holding forth on Hardball from the Fleet Center ), etc.

I think there are about 200 ways Apple could wave their flag a bit, show their superiority to Windows, etc. in a non-offensive, non-brand-damaging way.

[applenut]

im with messiatosh on this one, he basically nails it.

pscates, while, you're suggestions seem like an improvement, i think you lack an understanding of advertising. not saying i understand it, but there is certainly an effective strategy at hand in apple's marketing. many of your ideas seem appealing to us and appear to show more of the mac advantage but in all honesty....they would do shit to get people's attention and they would do shit to sell products.

[SilentEchoes]

No Applenut I think your a bit off, I am more with Paul on this one. If Apple would air commercials about their OS or hardware, then people might know its not MAC, They might know that Apple does not sell Fruity colored iMacs anymore and that was a long time ago, Or know that Yes, both the internet and MS Word are compatible with the Mac. I talk to PC users all the time who know none of this. This cannot go unchecked. And a few billboards in a few major cities are not going to change that. Sorry.

[applenut]

Originally Posted by SilentEchoes No Applenut I think your a bit off, I am more with Paul on this one. If Apple would air commercials about their OS or hardware, then people might know its not MAC, They might know that Apple does not sell Fruity colored iMacs anymore and that was a long time ago, Or know that Yes, both the internet and MS Word are compatible with the Mac. I talk to PC users all the time who know none of this. This cannot go unchecked. And a few billboards in a few major cities are not going to change that. Sorry.

you're wrong. people don't care. people don't think while watching commercials. hell, people don't pay attention to commercials. throwing a commercial up that shows MS Word Mac edition is wasted money. Throwing up an iPod ad that is loud, flashy and in your face and shows something that everyone has been talking about and something you keep hearing about.....that works.

again, i have no basis in advertising, but even with my lack of experience in the area your suggestions are hollow, boring, and just plain suck

[applenut]

It's all iPod, isn't it? Pretty much?

when the iMac was selling in numbers similar to the iPod it was the iMac up on all those ads. you're point? Apple advertises their hit product and what's hot. amazing.

I'm glad the iPod is a success. Honestly. I wish they could put 1/5 of that effort into, say, the operating system, maybe? iLife? The consumer-level stuff. The great "whole widget" thing that makes them unique.

something no one other than you and the hundred mac nuts care about? an ad featuring iLife is wasted money.

But some people simply don't even know enough or even THINK of Apple to even be able to make that secondary decision. That's what I'm talking about. There's that whole middle-ground of people out there, not terribly happy with Windows but not sure what else is there. When they hear "Apple" or "Macs", their thoughts swirl around System 6 or 7, old systems they used in college or "those funky artists computers that I can't use Microsoft Office on". There is a decade-plus vault of myths and misinformation Apple could consider addressing, since, in my experience that seems to be the largest hurdle for most normal, rational people considering a Mac. All the crap their co-workers and brother-in-law has told them for years and years, people who haven't touched a Mac beyond OS 8.1, and that was, oh, two times? And because their printer jammed or whatever, they've automatically attributed their less-than-ideal experience to "them damn Macs" (and not the jamming printer or frayed cable or whatever), and have made it a point to tell everyone they know a bunch of baseless bullcrap for a decade or so.

and you think 30 second commercials and billboards are gonna change all that? who are you kidding?

the iPod is a bigger misconception squasher than any commercial ever will be. You can't squash these misconceptions in a single swift 30 second kick. It takes a long time. The iPod has broughts hundreds of thousands of people into Apple stores. That changes conceptions more than an ad. The iPod is the misconception killer. It's cross-platform, easy to use, well integrated, widely supported, relatively problem free, now so over priced.....and it's bringing these people into Apple Stores (most of which by the way are windows users)....the prime environment in which to show the strengths of Apple and its products

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by applenut im with messiatosh on this one, he basically nails it. pscates, while, you're suggestions seem like an improvement, i think you lack an understanding of advertising. not saying i understand it, but there is certainly an effective strategy at hand in apple's marketing. many of your ideas seem appealing to us and appear to show more of the mac advantage but in all honesty....they would do shit to get people's attention and they would do shit to sell products.

Well for being someone who claims to also not "understand it", you certainly speak with authority, and seem to know what would - and wouldn't - "do shit". A fascinating leap.



I don't know anything about dinosaurs, but I guess I could go bug some people on a dig and Montana and inform them that they're going about it all wrong.

Do you have any sort of real, valid reason to think any of this? You like the idea Apple hasn't touted or shown-off their OS or hardly any hardware (other than the iPod, of course) with any sort of strength or focus?

To me, Apple's marketing strategy seems to be this:

� iPod
� People might accidentally wander into one of our stores, IF, of course, they're fortunate enough to live in or near a city that has one
� If you live in a large enough city (Frisco, NYC, etc.?), you might get treated to some billboards as you drive by at 75mph.
� Full page ad in Macworld, where all the non-Mac-using people are known to lurk in the largest numbers.



But you're right, 'nut. Nothing I say means shit. Those dwindling numbers, those are just hard facts of life that Apple can't - and shouldn't - do anything about, lest they look "mean" or "aggressive" or *gasp* like they're trying to SELL something and tout their wares.

"IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, WHAT COMPANY WOULD EVER STOOP TO SUCH VILE, CRASS MEASURES? WHY, IT'S UNHEARD OF, THIS, HOW YOU SAY...'ADVERTISING". IT'S THE WORK OF THE DEVIL, I SAY! AND I SHALL HAVE NO PART OF IT!"



Each of your posts above get goofier and more out of the touch than the previous one. And here you are, a "nut" on the very subject. I expected more.



Detached smugness and leaving everything else up to chance...now THERE'S a proper marketing approach we can all learn from!

uh, wait...

[applenut]

Well for being someone who claims to also not "understand it", you certainly speak with authority, and seem to know what would - and wouldn't - "do shit". A fascinating leap.

you know nothing at all yet make these long winded posts and shoot down others and think you're way is the only way.

I don't know anything about dinosaurs, but I guess I could go bug some people on a dig and Montana and inform them that they're going about it all wrong.

you're inability to use analogy in a method that relates to this argument is hilarious.

To me, Apple's marketing strategy seems to be this: � iPod � People might accidentally wander into one of our stores, IF, of course, they're fortunate enough to live in or near a city that has one � If you live in a large enough city (Frisco, NYC, etc.?), you might get treated to some billboards as you drive by at 75mph. � Full page ad in Macworld, where all the non-Mac-using people are known to lurk in the largest numbers.

1. yes, iPod. it's their runaway hit, in all the press, and something everyone wants.

2. whats the avg distance of an apple store to the US population? Isn't something like 25 miles? and how many stores will they have open by the end of the year?
3. Some billboards? try every block, try every bus stop or subway station. not only in SF and NY. They are in several cities across North America and even in Europe.
4. I guess Newsweek, US News, Time, Businessweek, Wired, Scientific America, and various other technology/medical magazines don't count.....since all of those have had various Apple ads over the past year.....with everything from the G5 to powerbooks to Final Cut Pro being featured.

But you're right, 'nut. Nothing I say means shit. Those dwindling numbers, those are just hard facts of life that Apple can't - and shouldn't - do anything about, lest they look "mean" or "aggressive" or *gasp* like they're trying to SELL something and tout their wares.

dwindling numbers? hm. iPod is selling more than they can make. PowerMac is selling more than they have supply. Powerbook is selling to their supply. iMac bombed....no adverstising could possibly save that thing. Not much point in spending millions on advertising for products in which you already can't provide enough of.

Each of your posts above get goofier and more out of the touch than the previous one. And here you are, a "nut" on the very subject. I expected more.

you going out of your way in an attempt to prove me wrong because i questioned the existence of your nutsack is getting even more pathetic. you're last post was the goofiest of all..... instead of proving me wrong, you resorted to immature attacks and comments..... do you have any substance or is this your example of intelligence and maturity?


brad, speak for yourself about being a kid. nice poem there bud. "kasper" must have cried himself to sleep over that.

[Luca]

applenut, why did you mention brad and the poem there? That was a long time ago, and it has nothing to do with this thread at all.

[trailmaster308]

Originally Posted by Luca ......it has nothing to do with this thread at all.

Seems we have been getting a lot of these lately.

Back to the Pepsi thing, I agree with some that it's probably a waste of money, however any advertising is good advertising. However, OS X needs to be front and center. Unix made easy for gods sake. Unix has a good name, even if it is just a buzz word to most.

[Messiahtosh]

Separating fact from fiction

The number of Apple users is not dwindling, in fact it is growing steadily. Apple just sold more Macs in the last quarter than it has in years, and more Macs than iPods, by 10,000 units or so.

Apple's overall market share, in comparisson to the rest of the market is little, but it is a growing platform that is as healthy as ever. Think about this: The Nintendo Gamecube has less of an overall worldwide ownership total than Macs, about 11 million units sold, and the Gamecube only costs $150.

Apple is doing fine, they log profits every quarter, they are winning the music war by more than a mile, and they are doing great things with their OS and hardware. Enough great things to keep the die-hards coming back and to get the people that are fed up with Windows.

It's working, slowly...but Apple's strategy is working. I do bet we will see more hit products though, which will help speed up the process of getting the attention of the "last straw" windows user.

[applenut]

Originally Posted by Luca applenut, why did you mention brad and the poem there? That was a long time ago, and it has nothing to do with this thread at all.

perhaps you miss the edit line of pscates post. of which i imagine brad decided to delete yet another immature attack from "the mature" and "visionary" pscates and decided to instead put a light jab in at me.

[applenut]

Originally Posted by trailmaster308 Seems we have been getting a lot of these lately. Back to the Pepsi thing, I agree with some that it's probably a waste of money, however any advertising is good advertising. However, OS X needs to be front and center. Unix made easy for gods sake. Unix has a good name, even if it is just a buzz word to most.

no one outside of geeks has any idea what UNIX is. walk into a computer store. overwhelming majority, no matter how bright, don't know anything about this stuff.

[trailmaster308]

Originally Posted by applenut no one outside of geeks has any idea what UNIX is. walk into a computer store. overwhelming majority, no matter how bright, don't know anything about this stuff.

I agree that most don't know "what Unix is", but even my mother has heard the word. And that buzz word needs to be made mainstream along with the OS.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by applenut no one outside of geeks has any idea what UNIX is. walk into a computer store. overwhelming majority, no matter how bright, don't know anything about this stuff.

That's true, using UNIX as a buzzword won't help anything. There are a zillion marketing ideas that could work (and that pscates has mentioned in the past), but I'm not a marketing expert so I won't comment. Oh, except to say that none of you are marketing experts either and it shows. Man, it would be funny if applenut or Messiahtosh got a job promoting Apple... just imagine what would happen.

applenut, don't make personal attacks. I won't delete anything on the basis of sounding angry, because everything you write sounds angry. But I really want you to quit it with the personal insults and attacks. And yes, I do notice that you haven't been doing that nearly as much as before.

[applenut]

Originally Posted by trailmaster308 I agree that most don't know "what Unix is", but even my mother has heard the word. And that buzz word needs to be made mainstream along with the OS.

I really don't think UNIX is something Apple wants or needs to promote. It's not attractive.

Apple seems to prefer to hide UNIX from the general public since it really doesn't mean much to them. Geeks already know it's there.

While there are some aspects of the OS that would gain attention and attract people.....I don't see UNIX being one of those.

[trailmaster308]

Any thoughts on why Apple is not promoting the OS? I'm just curious on what all us "non-marketing" backseat drivers have to say about it?

[applenut]

an, it would be funny if applenut or Messiahtosh got a job promoting Apple... just imagine what would happen.

well, since we both agree with apple's current marketing strategies I would imagine more of the same would happen.

applenut, don't make personal attacks. I won't delete anything on the basis of sounding angry, because everything you write sounds angry. But I really want you to quit it with the personal insults and attacks. And yes, I do notice that you haven't been doing that nearly as much as before.

that's fine, but I think you're leaving a certain member named paul out of that paragraph as well.

[Messiahtosh]

Originally Posted by Luca Man, it would be funny if applenut or Messiahtosh got a job promoting Apple... just imagine what would happen.

Thing is, I'll probably end up doing it too, because I understand it quite well. I am a huge proponent of Apple's products and can sell them effectively. I would dare say I could sell a Mac to just about anyone.

I get people asking me to help them figure out what to buy, I have sold hundreds of Macs to kids at Penn State, and I dont even work for Apple. You dont know who I am, how I am able to draw people in and what makes me tick. You see my narrow minded Apple focus, on these message boards.

In fact, I dont care how outrageous it sounds, but I am going to work in a high ranking position within a large tech firm someday. Whether it be Apple or not, I dont know...hopefully, but I bet I have as much a chance as anyone, if not more.