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Apple iPhone in August?


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Apple iPhone in August?
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scratt
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2006-07-29, 23:28

Ok.. So here's yet another wacky rumour from engadget..

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/29/w...nch-in-august/

My $500 under my mattress is starting to tingle..

WIth the massive rise in Mac sales, and the impending Zune debacle from M$, has Apple finally decided that this is the new toy they need to get out there to steal M$'s thunder again, and consolidate on their 'mobile toys' market lead?

If this is true I guess the sub-portable is out the window for now.. Just too many new things in August..

What do people think?

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
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Robo
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2006-07-29, 23:45

Yikes. Right after the US debut of LG's Chocolate phone, and right before the onslaught of Motorola's KRZR, RIZR, and RAZR MAXX? I don't think so.

Also, if the phone was launching in November, it would have to have recieved FCC approval by now (meaning it would have probably been published on the FCC website). Also, as Engadget commenters pointed out, if the device launched next month, photography would have probably been completed months ago. But then again, Apple does usually show pre-rendered shots of their products anyway. And their FCC filing could still be confidential.

Still, I'm not holding my breath for an iPhone in August.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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scratt
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2006-07-30, 00:04

"One more thing... The Apple iPhone shipping in time for Christmas" ?

It could also simply be a rebuttal to M$'s Zune craptastic offering...

Daring Fireball had a really cool commentary on this whole debacle..

http://daringfireball.net/2006/07/magic_8ball_zune

Quote:
My guess is that it went something like this: some guy from Microsoft showed up, delivered his spiel, and then gave a big wink and said something like “This is all top-secret stuff, so whatever you do, don’t go and blab about all these details to Engadget and Gizmodo! And for god’s sake don’t send them this photograph which I’m emailing a copy of to each of you right now! Can you see that I’m winking? Winking is a social cue that you use when you say one thing but mean the opposite!”
Two can play at the VaporWare game.. perhaps?

Quote:
Q: So in other words, this has all the hallmarks of a good old-fashioned Microsoft vaporware campaign: wildly optimistic ship date (“this November”) and a laundry list of features missing from the iPod and iTunes (Wi-Fi, social networking, a video game mode, adjustable faceplates, and maybe even Sirius and/or XM satellite radio). I’ll bet it will ship on schedule, with all those features, and will be lightweight, thin, and get great battery life.

A: VERY DOUBTFUL.
I have totally derailed my own thread here but have you seen this..

https://www.comingzune.com/

Craptastic is not a good enough descriptive for that!!

A pedophile, a young boy and a rabbit... To launch an iPod copy, that looks worse than most Chinese copies of said gadget! Bwuuhaaaahaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa!

oh.. and the logo! Class! Real Class!

Perhaps someone should remind them that Vista still needs to be finished..

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt

Last edited by scratt : 2006-07-30 at 00:11.
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sirnick4
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2006-07-30, 00:09

I'll believe it when I see it. These Apple phone rumors are crazy. If I was SJ, I wouldn't want to get in this industry. Yes, it is fast-growing, but cell phones always have problems it seems. Who knows.. maybe Apple can help fix that trend.

Again, I'll believe it when I see it. (And probably open my checkbook along with it )

Deal with it.
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scratt
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2006-07-30, 00:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirnick4
Again, I'll believe it when I see it. (And probably open my checkbook along with it )
Hey.. Get in line, buddy!
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datapusher
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2006-07-30, 10:16

i'd like to see a Dell phone personally.
it would be exciting to see random phones exploding on your morning commute.
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Brave Ulysses
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2006-07-30, 11:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by datapusher
i'd like to see a Dell phone personally.
it would be exciting to see random phones exploding on your morning commute.

You sound like every PC dweeb 9 years ago talking about the PowerBook
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pkatzman
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2006-07-30, 11:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by datapusher
i'd like to see a Dell phone personally.
it would be exciting to see random phones exploding on your morning commute.


But to be on topic, I really can't see how Apple would entere into a market so different than what they're used to. In so far as iPods and Macs, Apple is selling (almost all of the time) directly to consumers. Whereas in the cellphone market, manufacturers (assuming that's the position Apple would take, rather than forming a MVNO) sell to the carriers. In the end, it's not so much the features that consumers want, it's what the carriers allow them access to.

Unless, of course, Apple were to sell phones independent of a carrier, which would make their pricing significantly higher, and more equal to that of an iPod. The problem with that, however, is that most cellphone users in the U.S. are unwilling to pay more than 200 bucks for a phone (excepting business and "power" users, I suppose). Apple would have to convince them otherwise.

The third option, as I see it, is for Apple to form a MVNO (Mobile Virtual Network Operator - something like Virgin Mobile, ESPN Mobile, Boost, Tracfone, etc.) Then they could perhaps pull a Verizon and use phones from various manufacturers, but all with Apple's own custom interface. Hopefully it'd look better than the standard, hideous Verizon one.

But that said, I really don't think there's much accuracy to this rumor. If Apple were to begin selling a phone next week on a major carrier (most likely Cingular?) we'd have heard about it long ago, as the price sheets for various phone models come out far in advance (see EngadgetMobile). If they were launching a MVNO, we would have heard rumblings far back, I think. Something as big as that would have somehow leaked (right?).

The second option is the one that is, in my mind, the least unlikely. If they were developing it completely internally, they could have kept a tight lid on it. The FCC filings could be confidential (as Roboman pointed out), and there would be no carrier price sheets to be leaked.
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datapusher
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2006-07-30, 13:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses
You sound like every PC dweeb 9 years ago talking about the PowerBook


that makes things worse for dell then, their laptops are exploding now.
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Kraetos
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2006-07-30, 14:37

When the iPod came out, it was very expensive compared to the rest of the market. You could spend $250 with Creative and get a 6GB Nomad Jukebox. It was a pain in the ass to use, huge, heavy, and ran on USB 1.1, so it took several hours to transfer a single album, but it was a 6 GB MP3 player, none the less. I believe it was also the dominant HD-based MP3 player. (It might've been the only one...)

The point is, Apple isn't afraid to bust into a market with a premium-priced item because they know the Apple faithful will jump on that bandwagon and get the new products name out. Then, a year later, when they announce a price drop along with Windows compatibility, it draws that many more consumers in.

Apple has a wonderful marketing tool that it doesn't pay a dime for: us.

If we see an iPhone, it will probably be Cingular. Cingular has the largest network, which is getting more filled in every day. (Except for the 2 square miles surrounding my house ) That, and Apple has already launched iTunes on Cingular phones.

As for it being this month? Could happen, but not likely. Apple will have developed it completely internally, and only a handful of the top Cingular guys know anything about it. The FCC filing could be confidential. It COULD happen.

Finally, there isn't really a reason Apple couldn't sell the phone themselves. If I were Apple, I wouldn't let the Cingular stores get their hands on the iPhone. It would mean that Apple stores would have to have a little Cingular information in them, and it would also mean the Apple store employees would have to be versed in the plans that Cingular offers. But it beats the alternative of letting the Cingular stores and employees handle it.

But honestly? I wouldn't bet on this any time soon. We have been waiting for the iPhone for a very, very long time. Practically since the iPod was proven to be more than just a niche media player.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2006-07-30 at 14:43.
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nevir
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2006-07-30, 14:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by djfusion
But to be on topic, I really can't see how Apple would entere into a market so different than what they're used to. In so far as iPods and Macs, Apple is selling (almost all of the time) directly to consumers. Whereas in the cellphone market, manufacturers (assuming that's the position Apple would take, rather than forming a MVNO) sell to the carriers. In the end, it's not so much the features that consumers want, it's what the carriers allow them access to.
Well, if you notice, there seem to be quite a few more 'solo' carriers popping up nowadays (AMP'd, etc). It seems to be turning into a viable solution, and if they go that route, they'll have all (or most of) the control they're used to.

But I agree, it's highly unlikely that Apple would sell to other carriers - especially since it would probably feel that they're 'compromizing' the iPhone UI with whatever carrier-specific changes they make.
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Bryson
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2006-07-30, 14:42

Amp'd is an MVNO, which he already mentioned.

Apple as a MVNO? I can't see that, to be honest. An interesting alternative would be for them to simply sell the handsets "unlocked" so they'd work on whatever network (assuming this vapourware handset has the correct protocols). Expensive, maybe, but more expensive than a decent handset and an iPod? Maybe not.
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nevir
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2006-07-30, 15:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
Apple as a MVNO? I can't see that, to be honest. An interesting alternative would be for them to simply sell the handsets "unlocked" so they'd work on whatever network (assuming this vapourware handset has the correct protocols). Expensive, maybe, but more expensive than a decent handset and an iPod? Maybe not.
Are there any examples of phones out there that are unlocked like that and sold in the mass market? It seems to me that the providers want total control over what the phones show (interface-wise), but I really don't know that much about the market.
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Hobbes
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2006-07-30, 21:51

Here's my guess for the iPhone / iPod chat.

Sleek. Very sleek. Similar in shape and appearance to a nano, though with 10 # buttons. Very simple, great UI.

Capacities of a $149 iPod nano: 1GB of storage.

Works only with Cingular.

Pricey. $249, *with* a 2-year contract.

Last edited by Hobbes : 2006-07-30 at 21:58.
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jdcfsu
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2006-07-30, 22:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevir
Are there any examples of phones out there that are unlocked like that and sold in the mass market? It seems to me that the providers want total control over what the phones show (interface-wise), but I really don't know that much about the market.
You can buy unlocked, unbranded phones from all over now. Hell NewEgg.com sells them now. Because you are buying more or less from the manufacturer rather then a provider, you have to pay a higher price for it. I seriously considered going that route the last time I upgraded my phone but couldn't find a reputable reseller. Now that NewEgg.com is doing it, it's a different story. The only argument against buying an unlocked, unbranded phone is that particular text message and WAP/EDGE networks have to be configured for your provider, but there are guides and all online to help you do that and I think some providers will actually give you the configuration instructions if you ask for them.
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blakbyrd
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2006-07-30, 22:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes
Here's my guess for the iPhone / iPod chat.

Sleek. Very sleek. Similar in shape and appearance to a nano, though with 10 # buttons. Very simple, great UI.

Capacities of a $149 iPod nano: 1GB of storage.

Works only with Cingular.

Pricey. $249, *with* a 2-year contract.
That'd be nice. I'd rather have an iPod first/iPhone second device.
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Mikester
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2006-07-31, 03:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes
Here's my guess for the iPhone / iPod chat.

Sleek. Very sleek. Similar in shape and appearance to a nano, though with 10 # buttons. Very simple, great UI.

Capacities of a $149 iPod nano: 1GB of storage.

Works only with Cingular.

Pricey. $249, *with* a 2-year contract.
Hardly a terribly informed guess - "great UI" could mean anything, you're not really speculating as to how it will operate. Also, how do you arrive at 10 # buttons? A phone needs at least 12, plus the dial and hang-up buttons. And why would it only work with Cingular?

I think the iPod will be carrier-free, but slightly more expensive because of it. In the UK, I think a price of £200-250 is realistic.

"Tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms further" - The Great Gatsby
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TednDi
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2006-07-31, 06:19

Actually, with Sony Ericsson and one of their unlocked phones you can go to the website and click off carrier and model an they will text you the auto config file.

Kinka sweet.
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scratt
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2006-07-31, 06:26

That is cool.. Something Palm should do, but they suck a$$ at any kind of decent support..
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PixelNurse
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2006-07-31, 08:32

Apple could sell phones without worrying a jot about mobile carriers if they make it a wifi iChat phone. You'd also remove the need for all those pesky number buttons. Think of it this way, it's an iPod not a mobile phone, BUT you can make calls to people in your iChat buddy list when in range of a wifi hotspot. Nintendo offer free wireless for the DS Lite all over the place, perhaps Apple could make the same deal. Nintendo have also quite successfully managed the power issues of wifi in a mobile device.

Of course if the iPod has wifi all sort of things are possible. Wireless synching, direct music downloads, iPods on the local network appearing in Front Row. Bonjour pong anyone?
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drewprops
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2006-07-31, 09:03

That's cool news TednDi!!
I'm loathe to lock myself into a 2 year contract but am worried about not getting 'proper' service from the carrier if I don't buy from them. Interestingly, it seems that a lot of the storefront 'Cingular' stores are really only licensed dealers... not quite the 'company store' that I always assumed them to be.

Have to check out NewEgg's offerings now, though navigating the endless setup menus confuse me when looking at network settings. I'd be afraid I'd never get it set up right... but if SE has downloads that do it all FOR you then I am very, very interested...

I just wish that I could configure my current T-616 to act as a Bluetooth modem for my Powerbook... it's beyond me how to do that.

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
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pkatzman
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2006-07-31, 09:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcfsu
You can buy unlocked, unbranded phones from all over now. Hell NewEgg.com sells them now. Because you are buying more or less from the manufacturer rather then a provider, you have to pay a higher price for it. I seriously considered going that route the last time I upgraded my phone but couldn't find a reputable reseller. Now that NewEgg.com is doing it, it's a different story. The only argument against buying an unlocked, unbranded phone is that particular text message and WAP/EDGE networks have to be configured for your provider, but there are guides and all online to help you do that and I think some providers will actually give you the configuration instructions if you ask for them.
True. Amazon is also starting to sell some unlocked GSM phones, too (link). That said, I find it very hard to believe that this sort of thing is overly popular with American consumers. For the most part, we (probably accepting most here at AN) don't want to pay very much money for a phone, and don't mind signing a 2-year contract. The only thing I can see Apple doing to change this is putting a good bit of flash in there (no less than...4GB, maybe) or a hard drive, and billing it as a higher-end iPod, rather than a device to complement the iPod they assume you already have (kind of like the ROKR/SLVR/WHTVR) Otherwise, I can't see most people spending $400 on an iPod, and another $300-400 on an iPhone to go with it.
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Hobbes
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2006-07-31, 10:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikester
Hardly a terribly informed guess - "great UI" could mean anything, you're not really speculating as to how it will operate. Also, how do you arrive at 10 # buttons? A phone needs at least 12, plus the dial and hang-up buttons. And why would it only work with Cingular?
UI - not sure, but I think it will be very simple, focused on (a) using as phone and making calls, or (b) playing music. With a lot of polish to make sure toggling between those two functions is easy and makes sense. Jobs will quote some statistics about how users don't use 80% of their phone's features and how Apple is going back to basics -- making a phone easy to use.

buttons - excuse me, I mean 12. The standard key pad. Plus of course the click-wheel that will handle dial and power functions.

only a single provider - because that's how Apple works. Unlocked phones are the realm of geeks, not everyday consumers.
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apple007
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2006-07-31, 10:45

I find it hard to believe Apple would go to the enormous risk of entering the cell phone arena and then only allow one provider to sell the phones. I don't care how loyal/rabid Apple enthusiasts are; cellular service is governed by 1 and 2-year contracts, and not many people are going to breach their existing cellular contracts so they can immediately switch to a different provider and have an Apple phone.

iPods were one thing: A new product people could buy without terminating any existing contracts/relationships. But cell phones are a whole different product, and to possibly prevent thousands upon thousands of Apple enthusiasts from using one (by limiting them to one carrier) seems like a bad business model.

If Verizon adds an Apple phone, I'll probably buy one on Day 1. But I'm not going to cancel a 12-year relationship with Verizon if Apple decides only Cingular is worthy of an Apple phone.

Last edited by apple007 : 2006-07-31 at 10:51.
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TednDi
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2006-07-31, 11:14

Just remember to use GSM with a sim card.

The unlocked thing will NOT work in CDMA networks.

Also, if you travel abroad often enough, you can buy pre paid sim cards and thus get a local european number. I have one from Virgin in the UK and the money in the account never gets reduced if you don't use it. Unlike the US carriers and their pre-paid sim cards with their recurring monthly charges.

You just pop the sim card out and swap in the new sim card keeping your address book, etc with you on your phone.

Also, try and get a quad band phone if you use Cingular. It would appear that Cingular uses the 850 and 900 bands.

So if you only have the tri band phone, you don't get the 850 coverage.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

So, I want an apple iPhone and apple/.mac as the service. Unlocked of course! Wifi a total plus. with web capabilities and GPS!

Sweet!!
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drewprops
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2006-07-31, 12:09

The one true advantage to that is grabbing the iTunes mobile market and not letting it get penny-penched by the outlets like Cingular, who wouldn't BEGIN to dream of handing that market over to Apple. See, they want to SOAK consumers for as much as they can, it's part of the standard business cycle: release features incrementally, squeezing as much as you can with each new release. The restlessness of the modern consumer and the rapidity of asian production is robbing companies like Cingular and the rest of this standard incremental feature release cycle by accelerating the whole deal.

If Apple stepped in with a phone that hooked toward Apple's services there'd be little incentive for Cingular to sell them....

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Hobbes
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2006-07-31, 12:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple007
I find it hard to believe Apple would go to the enormous risk of entering the cell phone arena and then only allow one provider to sell the phones. I don't care how loyal/rabid Apple enthusiasts are; cellular service is governed by 1 and 2-year contracts, and not many people are going to breach their existing cellular contracts so they can immediately switch to a different provider and have an Apple phone.
I don't think they have a choice; the providers want to get into the music business themselves (Verizon leading the charge with its new service and very iPodish "Chocolate" phone). Most of 'em won't want to touch an Apple phone. Too dangerous for their cooked-up schemes.

So either Apple strikes an exclusive deal with one provider willing to take a cut instead being greedy, like Cingular (with whom they've already established a relationship) or they do a MVNO. I'm betting on the first.
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apple007
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2006-07-31, 12:33

But if that is all true, wouldn't the latter be more likely to be the direction taken by Apple? Any increased profits possibly seen by Apple as a result of an exclusive deal with one carrier would almost assuredly be more than offset by losses caused by that exclusivity due to millions of potential users locked into existing cellular contracts.
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TednDi
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2006-07-31, 13:05

Apple can negotiate with Cingular to become a MVNO. They just buy huge chunks of time from Cingular and Huge data blocks.

In exchange Apple can license to them the ITMS for their own downloads.
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jdcfsu
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2006-07-31, 13:14

I don't know. IF Apple puts out a phone, I'm going to find it hard to believe they tie themselves to a carrier because, as some have said, people won't break a contract with one company just to get a phone from another. I believe I'm like most people in that I've been with my current cell provider for many years and don't really care what phones they sell, I'm sticking with them because of their service and quality. If they have cool phones its just a bonus. The iTunes on the Cingular phones is one thing but I don't think they'll make any potential phone be tied to a Cingular network.
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