is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I'm surprised nobody pounced on this already...
If I'm understanding the MacRumor's livefeed correctly, they came up with a solution to allow for 3rd party app development without needing a SDK, and as iPhone uses a complete Safari copy, everything you can do with web, you can do with iPhone. They then claim that it gives good security... Is this accurate? |
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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The keynote said Web 2.0 + AJAX. There was no mention on the keynote feed whether any development tools would be forthcoming. Probably have to use whatever you currently use to develop Web 2.0 + AJAX apps today.
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Yeah, that's right. But in MacRumor, the feed indicated that they demo'ed a app using those technology to show what 3rd party can do.. right?
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Even with this, you don't get to access Cocoa, Core*, and the like, which all live on the iPhone. Jobs didn't say but it sounds like you need to have a server somewhere on the internet in order to run third party apps. Jobs didn't mention anything about installing these into the iPhone's built in RAM. |
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Not sayin', just sayin'
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Yup, that's pretty much it as I understand it: web apps are OK on the iPhone, but no local third party apps, no Cocoa/Core* APIs, etc. They have WebKit and whatever else goes into Safari. That also appears to mean that no third party apps can reside at the top level of the iPhone; you have to go into Safari and either find the bookmark or look up the webpage.
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Not sayin', just sayin'
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Safari will probably be the PDF reader.
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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and would we be missing anything out? It sounded like they can do anything with web technology, and can interface with anything on the iPhone, so I'm not really seeing why it should be a concern that we don't get any native apps to reside on the iPhone itself?
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Think about it this way. You won't be able to access any 3rd party apps anyplace that you don't have a connection to the internet. Which means that you can't rely on having access to functionality. It also means that developers now have to setup dedicated web servers just so that their apps will work, which could get cost prohibitive if their apps are popular. Oh, and having the EDGE connection active all the time will lower battery life. Essentially, imagine your Mac not being able to run Office natively, and you having to use Google's online Office alternatives on a slow (ISDN speed at best), unreliable internet connection. Plus, because they can't write software natively, a lot of apps that need direct access to the hardware won't work. You can count out any sort of third party GPS solution, for example. |
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Hmmm, that's plausible but frankly I'm not really convinced. Seems to me that if you're in area where there's no or weak signal, iPhone is basically just useless, and so are Blackberrys, Treos, and all other smartphones.
As for working offline, I'd think that this would be better done on a laptop, really. Seems to me that it's reasonable compromise, since I'd wage that more than 70% of any given smartphone are being used for something needing an internet/phone service. So I guess I won't really miss that much... |
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Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
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If I can store a .html file on my HD and read it in Safari, why couldn't I then do the same with an application for the iPhone? |
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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If Mugge's right, then Apple really did come up with a elegant solution of essentially sandboxing every apps and making it much harder to proliferate malicious apps...
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Formerly CoachKrzyzewski
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that would certainly seem to make sense. If this were any other company I would say it makes TOO MUCH sense... but this is apple, so i could definitely see that being the solution.
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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First, something like Google Spreadsheets is a LOT more involved than a simple HTML file. There's a lot going on behind the scenes on Google's servers that you never see. Second, you are assuming that you will be able to store data on the iPhone in such a way that Safari will be able to see it at all. As there are no 3rd party apps (web apps don't count) available, there's little impetus for Apple to make the file system easily accessible. iPhoto, Mail, and iTunes will (and already do) have their own file systems. I still contend that what you are looking at is the equivalent of Google's office applications and nothing more.
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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But still, the point is that you don't have to use iPhone to write up a report or a spreadsheet. This is better done on a laptop.
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Now, that's something more substantial. Yes, that'd be a downer.
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Formerly CoachKrzyzewski
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contrary to what I said earlier, it would appear that the applications are NOT on the iphone itself. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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It would appear that this is Apple's way of saying, "we sorta kinda maybe gave you developers what you wanted, but not really, so whatever happens from here is not exactly going to please not all of the users of some of our not too distant software developers that can or cannot create neat or not-so-neat kinda apps on their really groovy, mostly useful, but not always, cell phone that could be the all-in-wonder portable computer (not) that maybe isn't kind of going to be."
Uhhh… So does this really help developers? or not? I am very curious. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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It'll help anyone willing to set up their own personal or commercial app server in order to run whatever software they develop. The apps don't seem to be locally stored so you have to have some kind of 'net connection on both ends in order to be in business. The server would also need some kind of store if you want any kind of data persistence.
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Google Gears. If Google is developing apps for the iPhone, like has been discussed/rumored. I do not doubt this is something to looked into. This will allow your offline saving and access. It will work great with their Spreadsheets, etc. Or even Adobe's AIR!
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Edit: tirminyl beat me to it. |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Look guys, it's really not the same.
Can web apps do plenty of neat things? Sure. Are they anywhere close to desktop apps? Well, no. Local storage (is important), speed (is important and web apps rely on either EDGE, which is slow, or WiFi which you can't expect), multitouch (is awesome, but all you get is what you can use in Safari on the iPhone and I personally can imagine some great cool ways to use multitouch) and so forth. As it is I'm certainly unhappy, and I can totally feel the developer pain. Think of it this way—You know what a widget can do in OS X? Web apps on the iPhone, much much less. Sure widgets don't do much, certainly less then plenty of web apps, but widgets have the potential to all kinds of stuff using OS X—web apps are hugely limited. I'll quote Daring Fireball: Quote:
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Banging the Bottom End
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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But Google Apps at least are getting off line versions.
I can't imagine that Apple even suggests they're opening up the iPhone for 3rd party apps, if you just can't run them when offline. What exactly makes all of you so convinced of that? Isn't this just people repeating eachother? It seems so stupid... |
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Not sayin', just sayin'
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I guess the question should be" how would an internet-based app work if run offline? Part of it is asking what those apps might be, what they would need -- if it's input from the 'net in any case, who cares, but if it's saving data somewhere, uh oh. Also, how complex can a web-based app be to be used offline. Gosh, I have never run a web-based app offline, and haven't thought to try or why I would need to!
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Not a tame lion...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Narnia
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For an app to run offline it still needs a web server backend. Unless Apple enables Apache (or other web server) on the iphone it's impossible to run any kind of offline web application.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
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I think they're banking on the fact that most iPhone users will have access to EDGE most of the time, if not Wifi.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
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My take is that Apple had two reasons for not announcing a public API yesterday.
1) Web apps are nicely sand-boxed. Apple is just getting used to making phone software so perhaps they're still pondering what sorts of freedom to give apps. It is better to delay 3rd party developers for 6 months than to poorly architect a new device/platform. 2) A public API takes much longer to do properly than does an initial release of a private API. When a stable and full featured API is ready, they'll polish off the documentation and bundle it with their other development tools. The reasoning for this is that the inital release APIs are likely still in flux. As Apple gets more used to their own toolkit, it will rapidly mature, becoming both more stable and more full featured. The same thing was done with many of the now public APIs in OS X. They were private until stabilized and debugged. If these API were released earlier, they would piss off developers and users as each update broke 3rd party apps. |
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