[Wrao]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Don't forget, the game demos all said "You can use your iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad" as a controller. Now think about the possibilities. (I still prefer physical buttons on my controllers, but it's a hell of a lot better than thinking it's Remote only.) For our family, that made it jump from a one-person game machine to a four-person game machine without any added hardware. I think most households looking at it will be in a similar situation.

Yeah and I think that could make it appealing for households in the same way the Wii was, and true enough that the Wii cleaned MS and Sony's clocks in sales figures but in the long game it was more of a flash in the pan than a new paradigm. I don't like the terms but 'hardcore' and 'casual' are basically two different markets in the same space and nothing that Apple is doing here would appear to be trying to disrupt that, rather, they're perfectly happy to slot into the casual side of things which makes perfect sense for them and should still be fun in its own ways but I really don't see that at all butting up against what Sony or MS (or Steam for that matter) are doing.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by turtle For those, any aftermarket BT keyboard case will be just fine. I happen to really like Logitech's version for the iPad. Then you can turn the iPad any way you want.

The Clam Case is really the way to go. Best KB case out there.

—

New Apple TV has full support for 3rd party game controllers

For serious gamers, the new Apple TV supports MFi-based controllers that let you run, jump, shoot, kick, throw, punch, or just about any other verb you can imagine.

With that processor and graphics system, Sony and Microsoft better be looking over their shoulders.

—

Effectively, Apple put three industries on notice, with game consoles, cable/satellite and drawing tablets being the three most obvious. The typical, 13" drawing tablet is around $400 and you still need a computer to make it work. The typical game console is $400 and you have to pay upwards of $60 for games. The typical cable/satellite service is $720/year and sucks.

Those three industries will face downward sales pressure because of today's announcements. Between the Apple TV and the iPad Pro, those three industries will change. 1) Apple TV App Store will drive thousands of developers who will create thousands of cheap, fun games (watch out for ad-driven stuff, although Apple mentioned nothing of that). 2) Apple TV App Store will also drive content owners to apps rather than complex licensing agreements with distributors. 3) iPad Pro and Apple Pencil will drive artists to seek out inexpensive iPad apps rather than the costly Wacom tablets and Adobe Creative Rental Suite.

1) The Apple TV App Store will do to console gaming what the the iPhone App Store did to portable gaming: decimate it! Why spend thousands of dollars on consoles and expensive games when you can have an inexpensive Apple TV and discover a whole new set of fun, engaging games for far less money? I predict console games will go the way of VHS: a slow, miserable death before being relegated to hole-in-the-wall game rental stores to be used only by a decreasing number of "serious" gamers.

2) The Apple TV App Store will see content owners release a never ending mudslide of apps. There will be YouTube and the regular players (like Netflix, Hulu, etc.), every cable channel you ever watched (The Shopping Channel, The weather Channel, C-Span, Sci-Fi, etc.), there will be video sharing services out the whosit, there will be those silly "watch me play a video game" sharing apps, GoPro will certainly get in on the act, local stations will have news apps, radio stations will have music apps, social media will explode into the living room like never before, hell, even apps will have apps! Developers will come up with all sorts of clever BS to gain your eyeshare.

3) Wacom tablets and pens are expensive. Although they have been used in the industry for eons, they aren't really "portable". An iPad with the same basic feature set removes the artist from their desk and puts them out in the field in front of their subject—all without having to unplug anything! I don't like stylus' for everyday use, but for artists it is huge. The one, glaring flaw in the current iPads is how crappy the average "stylus" is for artistic expression. Apple Pencil changes that in a dramatic way!

Sony/Microsoft, MegaCable and Wacom are all on the hot-seat.

And I bet they don't even know it.

I think there will be a slow decline for all of these players. It won't be overnight, but they are going to feel it, even if it takes 5-10 years.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by kscherer Effectively, Apple put three industries on notice, with game consoles, cable/satellite and drawing tablets being the three most obvious.

I doubt the gaming industry will feel terribly threatened by Apple. For one thing Apple has never been a big player because it does not get any important exclusives. All the big titles that "gamers" care about come to Apple platforms a year or more after Xbox, Playstation and Windows. CPU and GPU alone won't change that.

[kscherer]

Exactly.

You stated precisely where the puck is at, today. Which is not where Apple is aiming.

An entire generation of kids are being raised on portable devices that could give a rip about Xbox's and Playstations. This is about the future of living room gaming, not the present. I guarantee Apple would rather sell a hundred million profitable Apple TV's to today's internet-connected families than a few million unprofitable and subsidized boxes crammed with last century's PC technology and game cartridges to a minority population of "purists".

Don't get me wrong. We have an Xbox. We have a Wii. But they are both collecting dust. Games cost $50. Disks scratch and become unplayable. They make noise. They run up the electric bill. They aren't very flexible. The game franchises are old and tired. Hell, even Halo has lost it's zip.

Like phones and tablets and watches, the entire industry needs a swift kick in the ass. Since the only thing entrenched industries understand is money, there's nothing like stealing a little market share to wake them up. When MS and Sony lose a few hundred thousand sales this Christmas, they'll realize they're in danger. They might wake up in time to fix themselves, but I doubt it. My guess is they'll go all Blackberry or HP, or yes, Microsoft, and rest on their entrenched business models. Sony already lost their PSP business. I bet they're paying attention, now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: This Christmas, when it comes time to buy a new game box, what must a customer decide? Buy a $400 system that isn't connected with all their other stuff? Or buy a $150 system that is? It's a serious question that millions of people will be asking.

Old PC technology and expensive game cartridges? Or new, mobile technology and inexpensive downloads?

I know which direction I'm going.

[psmith2.0]

In some of those Apple pics and videos, the Rose Gold iPhone 6s looks almost copper-y.

My plan all along has been to get the silver, but I'd like to see one of those Rose Gold models in real life. If it's not too blatantly pink/blush/rose, I could be persuaded. I've always wanted a copper-toned iPhone. The create date on this is September 20, 2013, so I was thinking this way two years ago:



My mockup above is far too "new penny" for my liking now, but a more muted, matte look would grab me.

This pic at MacRumors.com makes me go "hey...hmmmm..."



Anyone have a line on other, better "real life" pics (taken today at the demo area?). I can't go solely by the "beauty shots" at Apple's site.

[kscherer]

By the way: Good to see some Scates posts.

*ahem* As soon as that Ep 7 trailer comes out, I expect a full report!

[psmith2.0]

Every frame, as always.

Went to Engadget, Boy Genius Reports, Cnet, Macworld, Gizmodo, iMore, etc. trying to find a gallery of some good shots of the rose gold. It's like looking for Bigfoot. Don't these media types take pictures at these things?

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by kscherer The typical, 13" drawing tablet is around $400 and you still need a computer to make it work.

A 'drawing tablet' isn't comparable. A Wacom Cintiq starts to be, but you *still* need to be tethered to a computer.

And their 13" HD Touch?

$999.

Yeah.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Kickaha And their 13" HD Touch? $999.

but you *still* need to be tethered to a computer

Wash, rinse, repeat!

—

So, it's $999 for 13" HD Touch and pen, $1299 for a 12" MacBook w/Retina Display, and both children for Photoshop. ($3000 minimum and lots of cables).

*or*

$849 for iPad Pro 128, $99 for fancy Apple Pencil, a few bucks for Pixelmator. ($1000 and zero cables). Edit: Oh, hell, let's spring for the 128GB model with 4G LTE so we can upload while out in the park. So, we're up to what, $1150?

Hmm …

If I was Wacom or Adobe, I would be worried.

[addison]

Looks like a dusty rose pink to me. I'm basing that on the picture of the phone in the dock on the accessories page.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by PB PM I doubt the gaming industry will feel terribly threatened by Apple. For one thing Apple has never been a big player because it does not get any important exclusives. All the big titles that "gamers" care about come to Apple platforms a year or more after Xbox, Playstation and Windows. CPU and GPU alone won't change that.

Agreed. I'm not really sure why folks are touting a rivalry here, other than to drive page clicks of frothing fanboys of all stripes.

It's not going to compete with the Xbox or PS4. It doesn't have to. It just has to be a good streaming box (check) that connects with the most popular services (check), has hooks for extensibility - apps (check), readily or already available controllers (check), a developer community (check), and enough oomph to run *good enough* games to keep folks entertained.

The 'hardcore' gamers will never buy this for gaming. Hell, the 'hardcore' gamers don't buy consoles anyway, but custom PCs. The console folks will be split, but I can tell you that even in our house, the two teenaged boys are spending less time on COD:Black Ops these days and more on Minecraft, Skyrim, and hell, Geometry Wars.

[PB PM]

Indeed, the Apple TV will be nice for two groups, Apple fanboys (sorry folks) and streamers who might do a little casual gaming. We are not going to see any high end games come to the platform.

While the industry will face change, I still think the biggest group of serious to semi-serious game buyers will be skipping the Apple TV method for many years to come. Heck, I skipped it altogether and got a Mac Mini to hook up to my TV.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by PB PM While the industry will face change, I still think the biggest group of serious to semi-serious game buyers will be skipping the Apple TV method for many years to come. Heck, I skipped it altogether and got a Mac Mini to hook up to my TV.

I noticed you got a Mac Mini (PC), not a game console. As Kick said, "serious" gamers build (or buy) PC's. I'm not arguing PC's, I'm arguing Xbox/Playstation. These two things are the ones with the absolute least flexibility. You cannot upgrade them in any meaningful way, they rely on old tech and game cartridges (CD/DVD) which are becoming increasingly foreign to internet-connected families, they're quite expensive for what you get, and even software upgrades are challenging.

PC's aren't going anywhere, but consoles are going to suffer.

This isn't a "fanboy" thing. I hate the iPhone and consider it a scourge; I refuse to wear watches, thus no Apple Watch; the iPad's document editing tools are a giant pile of suck, so I don't use one of those, either. I'm a fan of the Mac and the Apple TV, and the new one is a game changer.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by kscherer I noticed you got a Mac Mini (PC), not a game console.

I'm not a serious gamer, and when I do play games it's on my desktop computer, not a TV. To me the Apple TV is not a "game changer" it's just a limited box, that will offer what Apple is willing to allow in the app store. I'd rather a have fully functional system that I can use for more than just streaming, which is why I got a Mac Mini.

Now for people in group 2 that I mentioned before the Apple TV is nice, just as it always as been, just with the addition of some games. The fanboys will always buy Apple stuff, no matter what it is, so that's a given.

[Chinney]

Interesting discussion.

I am not sure that I am personally in need of any of the products. But I am sure that there is a solid market out there among people with different needs and preferences than me. In particular, based on my observation, there is a market out there - a big market - for casual gaming that does not rely on Playstations or customized PCs.

[psmith2.0]

Anyone know how much space a 12-megapixel image will take up, as well as the file size for one minute of 4K video?

My Googling is getting all kinds of numbers/answers, with none being particularly iPhone-specific (I didn't know if iPhone/iOS handled this stuff in a specif way (compression, etc.).

Any answers (or solid, educated guesses based on current resulting file sizes from current iPhones)?

[addabox]

Originally Posted by addison Looks like a dusty rose pink to me. I'm basing that on the picture of the phone in the dock on the accessories page.

Reading some of the "hand on" articles from people who were there, the consensus seems to be that it's straight up pink.

[psmith2.0]

Ooh, okay. Good to know. The blatant pinkness just isn't coming across in pics I've seen so far, so that's why I was hopeful it might've been a copper-y/salmon (Gretsch had a metallic/sparkly finish for their guitars and drums called Champagne Sparkle that is, hands down, my favorite guitar color ever).

I got a little amped up (no pun) at the possibility of having a phone in that general hue.

[addison]

There are some new case colors too. I really like the Saddle Brown one. I read somewhere the new phone is slightly taller and thicker than the old one but I'm assuming cases will work on either phone.

[addabox]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Ooh, okay. Good to know. The blatant pinkness just isn't coming across in pics I've seen so far, so that's why I was hopeful it might've been a copper-y/salmon (Gretsch had a metallic/sparkly finish for their guitars and drums called Champagne Sparkle that is, hands down, my favorite guitar color ever). I got a little amped up (no pun) at the possibility of having a phone in that general hue.

Funny, because when I was watching the little introductory video for the new Apple Watches, I though "Wow, they just decided to make a pink one, huh? Bold move." Then come to find out they were calling that shade of anodized aluminum "Rose Gold." So I assume the iPhone is the same color:

[Chinney]

It's an ok colour, but I prefer the look of the copper colour that Paul was speculating about.

[psmith2.0]

See, that pic above of the large watch that Addabox posted...all I see there is a nice copper-y color with a slight salmon undertone. I don't see "pink" in that picture at all!

So either my eyes (or iMac screen) are completely torqued...or Addabox's are.

If that's how these looked in real life, that's the iPhone I'd get. Hands down. To me, that's just an awesome muted, matte coppery color. It's beautiful to me, at least in the photograph above.

But you can't judge this stuff on Apple's PR/beauty pics, I've learned that over the past 15 years! You have to check it out in real life. None of their jellybean iMacs looked as gorgeous on their site as they did in real life (photos just didn't capture that gloss and translucency fully). Conversely, other things look better on their site than real life (the iPhone 5c colors, some of the iPod nano and shuffle colors over the years, the Blue Dalmatian and Flower Power iMacs, etc.).

I know I'll wind up with a(nother) silver iPhone, but I do want to see that Rose Gold in real life first...just to be sure.

I even toyed with going Space Grey this time, after three years of a silver/white iPhone 5...just for a change-up/something different. But I know I'll weinee out and go with my standby.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by PB PM I'm not a serious gamer, and when I do play games it's on my desktop computer, not a TV. To me the Apple TV is not a "game changer" it's just a limited box, that will offer what Apple is willing to allow in the app store. I'd rather a have fully functional system that I can use for more than just streaming, which is why I got a Mac Mini.

FWIW, I had a Mini hooked to my TV for years, finally got tired of dealing with the complexity just to stream videos (which is all I actually ended up doing with it), and replaced it with... an AppleTV. Everything else I did on the Mini (YouTube, etc) I can now do by pushing AirPlay from my phone, which I ended up using more than the Mini anyway.

Frankly, the new one is just mega-icing. (And Plex. PlexConnect never really worked for me...)

[turtle]

Funny you mention Plex. Now that Apps are going to be a thing on the AppleTV I'm looking forward to seeing apps like Plex, Synology and others live on the AppleTV. I just hope there aren't any horrid limitation.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Don't forget, the game demos all said "You can use your iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad" as a controller. Now think about the possibilities. (I still prefer physical buttons on my controllers, but it's a hell of a lot better than thinking it's Remote only.) For our family, that made it jump from a one-person game machine to a four-person game machine without any added hardware. I think most households looking at it will be in a similar situation.

I'll admit I didn't watch the demo, but did they say they'd be doing split screen or multiple user gaming? I wouldn't be surprised to find it out can only work with one or two controllers at a time.

[Luca]

A webcomic from 2012 correctly predicted the iPad Pro.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by alcimedes I'll admit I didn't watch the demo, but did they say they'd be doing split screen or multiple user gaming? I wouldn't be surprised to find it out can only work with one or two controllers at a time.

Some weirdos demoed 2-player Frogger on Apple TV, with one of the weirdos using an iPhone as a second remote. So, yes, it supports multi-player (up to four, IIRC) and multiple remotes, although they did not mention if it supports multiple Siri Remotes or just "other remotes". I assume that, since it supports up to four players, and that it supports MFi remotes, that it will support at least four MFi remotes, four iPhone/Touch remotes, or four Siri Remotes. But, who knows.

[psmith2.0]

Stupid question alert: all these new financing plans/loans (all the carriers are pushing them, and Apple announced their own yesterday)...that per-month price you hear, that's on top of your monthly rate plan, correct? That number strictly applies to paying off the hardware itself and you're still going to pay, in addition to that, whatever your carrier service bill is, right?

Explain it so an idiot (me) understands it.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Stupid question alert: all these new financing plans/loans (all the carriers are pushing them, and Apple announced their own yesterday)...that per-month price you hear, that's on top of your monthly rate plan, correct? That number strictly applies to paying off the hardware itself and you're still going to pay, in addition to that, whatever your carrier service bill is, right? Explain it so an idiot (me) understands it.

Yes, most carriers lowered the cost of phone/data service since they don't subsidize the cost of phones anymore. So when you price a calling/data plan that doesn't include the cost of the hardware. So this pricing you saw Apple talk about is the new thing. Hardware is treated as a separate bill item now.

Short answer, the cost of the phone is in addition to your service bill.

[addison]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Stupid question alert: all these new financing plans/loans (all the carriers are pushing them, and Apple announced their own yesterday)...that per-month price you hear, that's on top of your monthly rate plan, correct? That number strictly applies to paying off the hardware itself and you're still going to pay, in addition to that, whatever your carrier service bill is, right? Explain it so an idiot (me) understands it.

I'm pretty sure if you are on an older up front subsidy plan they will honor the upgrade. You'll have to go to the carrier store though. Of course if you keep the phone longer than 2 years you start losing money.

Also, AppleCare is now more money as is the deductible to use it.