[PB PM]

And the plot gets thicker. The University of Barcelona found COVID in frozen sewer samples (from Barcelona) from March 2019. The study is currently awaiting peer review for verification of the data. This follows what we learned months ago about noticed case in Italy as early as September 2019 (found in frozen samples from caner patients).

https://www.ub.edu/web/ub/en/menu_ei...20/06/042.html

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Good call. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/red-state/

Redstate is what's called a hyperpartisan website. No surprises there. It's in the very name.

But I did post the Twitter thread that this news was emerging from.

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by PB PM And the plot gets thicker. The University of Barcelona found COVID in frozen sewer samples (from Barcelona) from March 2019. The study is currently awaiting peer review for verification of the data. This follows what we learned months ago about noticed case in Italy as early as September 2019 (found in frozen samples from caner patients). https://www.ub.edu/web/ub/en/menu_ei...20/06/042.html

Meh.

I think there's clear evidence that the virus was moving back and forth between humans and its zoonotic source for years before the outbreak. This is the way things normally happen as viruses adapt to a new species. I am pretty sure I had covid in late 2019 (extremely high fever and an endless sore throat); and I am almost certain that most of my lab did well before the March 2020 lockdown. First cases rarely are, and this virus or its very close cousins have likely been in the wild for years... which if you take this as it is suggests that a singular lab outbreak is stupidly unlikely.

[PB PM]

They still think it points a China as a point or origin, since Spain has a large number of temporary foreign workers (mostly from China) that go back a forth with farming seasons. I don’t think anyone believes COVID magically appeared from a lab in the fall of 2019 (other than some fake news sites). I don’t doubt that it had already been around the globe by the fall of 2019, or much earlier. Doesn’t mean I don’t think China hid knowledge about it on purpose to make things worse.

People thought SARS-1 disappeared, but did it really? I know SARS-1 &2 aren’t the same line, so not the same thing, but doesn’t mean it isn’t out doing the same thing.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by PB PM And the plot gets thicker. The University of Barcelona found COVID in frozen sewer samples (from Barcelona) from March 2019. The study is currently awaiting peer review for verification of the data. This follows what we learned months ago about noticed case in Italy as early as September 2019 (found in frozen samples from caner patients). https://www.ub.edu/web/ub/en/menu_ei...20/06/042.html

IIRC the Barcelona study was debunked due to a bad test method but I can't find a source atm.

[PB PM]

Yes, looking into it more it appears that the peer reviews have happened, and it's been discredited. It was positive due to similar genomes to COVID-19, but isn't a 100% match. Some suggest this could be due to parts of the virus degrading faster than others. Maybe Bobsky has insight into that sort of thing?

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by PB PM Yes, looking into it more it appears that the peer reviews have happened, and it's been discredited. It was positive due to similar genomes to COVID-19, but isn't a 100% match. Some suggest this could be due to parts of the virus degrading faster than others. Maybe Bobsky has insight into that sort of thing?

Best to doubt bad methods than think that results from bad methods are true.

SARS-1 was contained by an extremely diligent epidemiological response. Cov2 not so much.

[crazychester]

Originally Posted by drewprops It's practically impossible to NOT get a vaccination today in my neck of the woods, generally on your own schedule. It was not like that in the beginning. During the earliest days it was confusing, but now it's a breeze. How did we get here? Who gets the credit? ...

Trump for ordering enough vaccines. Biden for the roll out.

The following is an interesting read.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...gn=amp_kickers

As far as where it came from goes, I'd love a definitive answer but I think our energies are better directed elsewhere at this point in time. Sometimes you have to choose your battles.

[drewprops]

Bump. The Daily Beast is providing new details of the rumors of the defection of the Chinese official. That's a second source. There's heat.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rumors...-jingwei-swirl



...

[PB PM]

The daily beast? Sounds reliable…

[drewprops]

Originally Posted by PB PM The daily beast? Sounds reliable…

I refrained from making that comment in order to let somebody else have a go!

...

[Frank777]

Actually SpyTalk, which is a site devoted to international affairs (and virulently anti-Trump, BTW) is also adding details about the informant.

Don't worry, in about a year it will be acknowledged, and the MSM will then be saying they were on this story all along.

[PB PM]

Don't know what MSM you listen/watch, but it has been talked about somewhat here. The general feel I get from them them is, let's wait and see the facts before passing judgement. Sounds like a legitimate thing for the media to do, but I'm just a crazy centralist, so what do I know?

[Dr. Bobsky]

You don't defect unless you sense you are imperilled. I'm not sure exposing an origin of the pandemic is the hill anyone is truly willing to die upon: the information is not at all useful. There is also the nation to which he has defected and what they would use of any information he has: learning that the virus (which is, absolutely, found naturally) originally had an outbreak at a lab is useless.

This sounds like there was a high level defection and the virus source is a convenient cover for other state secrets he has, and Biden's administration is using a smoke screen to hide what he's actually revealing...

[drewprops]

So DELTA is the current variant getting all the press.

More efficient at spreading, etc.

How are the vaccinated folks here planning to handle this?


...

[PB PM]

Same way as before. Don't do dumb stuff. Finally getting my second dose next week, the 8 weeks between shots we were forced to go with seems like a long time.

[drewprops]

Some friends simply are not taking any chances with testing their vaccinations, while others are going about their business like pre-Covid; using it like a get out of jail pass.

I'm trying to decide if bunkering is smart.

8 weeks for your second dose? Why so long?
I think we had 2 or 3 weeks for Pfizer?

...

[Bryson]

The Canadian government prioritized getting as many people as possible a first dose before getting into second doses. We had less supply (as it’s not manufactured here) so they had to choose between longer intervals or having less people with one dose than they wanted.

[PB PM]

Yup, and to be honest, given the situation it was the best way to go, better to have some coverage than none. If they had followed the original plan (4 weeks between shots), people under 40 likely wouldn't even have one dose yet. The way things have turned out, 80% of eligible people in BC (12+) have at least one dose, and it's getting close to, or over, 50% with two IIRC.

[drewprops]

It appears that here in the United States, where practically all the people who are going to get vaccinated have already been vaccinated, the Delta variant is surging amongst the unvaccinated. I'm trying to decide whether I should return to bunkering to prevent myself from being a potential carrier, to protect people who are unvaccinated and at risk of croaking. Or should I just not worry about them?


...

[PB PM]

It’s really your choice, but to me the choice is overwhelming to keep doing what I did when I got vaccinated. I didn’t get vaccinated just for myself, I did it To protect others to the best of my ability. I’m not going to avoid living life, but I can do things that minimize the risks to myself and others. I still wear a mask in areas where close contact is hard to avoid, even though it’s not mandatory, and maintain basic hygiene. I also keep in mind that the vaccine does not make me immune from some of the known long term effects (brain/lung/organ damage) should I contract COVID.

[turbulentfurball]

Originally Posted by PB PM Yup, and to be honest, given the situation it was the best way to go, better to have some coverage than none. If they had followed the original plan (4 weeks between shots), people under 40 likely wouldn't even have one dose yet. The way things have turned out, 80% of eligible people in BC (12+) have at least one dose, and it's getting close to, or over, 50% with two IIRC.

Here in Quebec 82% have had their first dose and 50% (myself included) have had their second. I can now have visitors with no social distancing if we’ve both had our second dose. I recently hugged someone that’s not my partner for the first time in ages and it felt great!

[Dr. Bobsky]

I think the risk of Beta to the UK because of the almost exclusive prevalent use of AZ for vaccinating its adults is a clusterfuck waiting to happen. AZ is only 10% effective against Beta, which is deadlier than Delta and others, but less transmissible. It's a sign of the evolution potential of these viruses, and if Beta does start to transmit in the UK, it gives the virus a greater chance of evolving passed the other vaccines.

[kieran]

My entire family (Mom, Brother, SIL, 2 nephews, Sister (pregnant), BIL, 2 nieces just all went to a house on the beach for two weeks. It's a standard family vacation that we normally take every year.

However, I, my wife, and infant daughter, did not go last year or this year, because, you know, COVID.

When I asked my mother if it would be ok to have my unvaccinated 2 year old there, she said it would be fine, but when I asked if everyone was vaccinated, she said no. That included her, my brother, SIL, and my 2 15 year old nieces.

I don't understand how people are not vaccinated yet. Boggles my mind.

And yet, here my family is getting together in one house for two weeks with half of them unvaccinated.

Their response is "We've been getting together this whole time for everything and nothing has happened so we're going to continue to do so."

I just don't understand how people can act like this.

I haven't seen any members of my family in well over a year and at this rate, it doesn't look like I'm going to be seeing them any time soon.

[Ryan]

Yup.

Parts of western Colorado have vaccination rates in the 30% range. With Delta—which hit Colorado earlier than the rest of the country—they're now once again exceeding their hospital capacity.

Meanwhile, the Front Range is running 75%+, hospitals are back to the normal and the just governor rescinded all his pandemic-related executive orders. They've tried everything short of blowdarts laced with Pfizer to get Grand Junction vaccinated but hesitancy over there is just too high and my read is that he's run out of patience with them.

They've even got a fleet of vaccination vans out there—they'll come to you! For free! Or you can dial 211 anywhere in the state and get a free ride to a vaccine site! There's just no excuse at this point.

My best friend's sister—a reasonably healthy 26 year old—was just hospitalized for covid. She and her husband weren't vaccinated, and AFAIK most of that family isn't. What exactly do they think will happen as a result of that decision?

My employer has just started reopening offices—50% capacity, masks required even at your desk—and we're requiring proof of vaccination to come back. You aren't fired if you choose not to get the shot, but you'll be relegated to work from home forever. My location reopens in another month.

[turtle]

So there is a poll now that we all knew: Vaccines believed to be more dangerous that the virus

I could have said this but now that there is an article and poll out there that says it I'll let it.

Here are how the poll results, released Tuesday, break down: 37% of unvaccinated Americans say the vaccines represent a greater health risk than the virus. 29% say the virus poses a greater risk to their health than the vaccines. 34% say they’re not sure. 51% of unvaccinated U.S. adults say they will "never" get vaccinated. 20% say they will wait "to see what happens to others before deciding." 22% were not sure what they will do. 37% of unvaccinated Americans say they are "concerned about long-term side effects." 17% don’t trust the government. 16% say the vaccines are too new. 11% say the Food and Drug Administration "hasn’t fully approved the vaccines yet." 6% of unvaccinated Americans say they don’t trust any vaccines. 39% say they are not worried about the Delta variant. 34% say they are worried about the Delta variant. 85% of vaccinated Americans say the Delta variant poses a serious risk.

[709]

*ahem*

Unvaccinated Americans say COVID vaccines are riskier than the virus, even as Delta surges among them.

Let's be clear who these 'believers' are that the article is talking about.

[PB PM]

I can see how some people think that way. If the links my super right wing friend sends me are correct (no chance of that given the sources), 63% of vaccinated people will die of heart failure after three years.

[kieran]

Over 3 BILLION vaccine doses have been administered with over 1 Billion people fully vaccinated.

I'm not sure why people are still hesitant about "waiting to see what happens to others"

Another thing that I saw was a reporter who was interviewing people about why they haven't gotten vaccinated and the reporter told them that the MRNA vaccines have been in development for years. This is news to a lot of people. I just wish this was an easier piece of news to distribute.

[turtle]

So when you look at the sides of this and you read about something like J&J's vaccine causing "rare and potentially dangerous neurological reaction" (ABC's WCJB) is it easy to see why people aren't wanting to jump in line for a vaccine. That is one recent article about it. I think every one of the vaccine makers (at least here in the US) have had some similar "really bad" situation that is very rare but still brings to question is the vaccine actually safer than the virus? I happen to think it likely is safer but I get the argument.

Especially with the push by Hollywood stars shunning ANY vaccine for years going up to this pandemic. Now that they say it is a pandemic and rushed approval, it must really be safe now.

:shrug:

Really, it comes down to personal trust in the "system" that the vaccine is a better option or not. Most of the reasons boil down to a lack of trust. Be it the Government, Pharma or just vaccines in general. I mean, the MMR vaccine (or whatever it was) is why Autism is on the rise in the US if you ask some people.