Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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That's why I've been saying that for years. Thin is thin, and, for most of us, they've sold nothing "bulky" or "ungainly" for well over a decade. But it was never enough, was it? For many years, that seemed to be the biggest thing they'd crow about - "It's 7% thinner than the previous model...", etc. - upon the introduction of a new notebook (or phone, iPad, etc.). There is a point where it can work against you. I think they bumped up against that some time ago, on a few products.
And, no...I don't want silly, 1990's-era 1.78" thick notebooks. Nobody does. But when the pursuit of Almighty Thin has impacts on performance, cooling, components, etc., that's when you might want to pull it back a little. The nice thing about this M1 (and beyond) is that they might have their cake and eat it too...thin as they'd like, but the performance and thermal/battery concerns are all addressed and maybe there's no big trade-off as before. I'm not anti-thin at all. But there's a point where it makes no sense to go beyond if if means the overall machine is a less-than experience. Nobody's going to marvel at fractions of a millimeter lost if their machine is always throttling down and their scrotum is stir-frying. I always got a perverse kick during the keynotes or an event when some Apple exec breathlessly touted the even-thinner, smaller body that was already plenty thin/small enough, and it was met with dead silence. That's a polite crowd's way of saying "we don't really give a shit, quit obsessing on that metric; it's not cute anymore. The MacBook Air has been around for quite some time, and it was already plenty thin the day Steve pulled it out of that envelope. Relax." |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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I forgot all about that Mac!
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Hearing you talk about old codgers and SCSI just brought all that roaring back. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Yup. We had one of those MUGs here in Boise. They met at CompUSA in a cold room and whined about, you guessed it, SCSI and the like. 20-something years ago in the Performa days, and these guys spent the monthly meet-up bothering over networking flim-flam and serial this-and-that. The newbies that were trying to get answers (like me) had no idea we were walking into such a vomit-filled crank-hole!
Later on, after I started working at MacLife and right as CompUSA was going under, one of these bozos wandered into the shop to sell the Boise Mac Users Group as the god-send of power-users that our store needed in order to be relevant. If only we would offer all of their members 15% (!!!) off all of their purchases, they would gather in our shop, once per month, for FREE! (i.e. they wanted a rent-free meeting place), and all we had to do was provide coffee and soda, a free room, and a steep discount to all 7 of them! The owner literally told them to "get out and go pound sand!" We ain't got no use for SCSI! - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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I'm kinda curious if such a thing still exists here in town, and, surely, it's a bit further along. Only difference is, my interest/enthusiasm has waned, so I'm not sure I'd enjoy it like I might've 10-15 years ago.
Oh well, time does march on. But there were some funny moments back then. It seemed like the Mac-using world was divided into two camps...the pre-1998/iEra crowd, and the post. I saw it many, many times back in those days. Even the one MWSF Expo I attended (2000, the unveiling of OS X and the big blue gel "X" banners up everywhere), was a real eye-opener. I saw grown men lamenting "the end of an era" and being a bunch of drama babies and I just could never get my head around that. It's still a Mac. It sounds like it's even going to be a better one. Sounds like some interesting, cool stuff. I remember attending a seminar on icon design put on by the guys from iconfactory.com. They didn't know what to talk about, with the new OS X icon style having just been unveiled the day before. They weren't quite sure where things were headed, how they factored in and instead of it being cool "how to" demos/drawing (those old school bit-map icons, pre-OS X) we were treated to this Robert Langdon-style seminar/lecture on symbols and communication. "Guys, I don't give a shit what this meant in France in the 1600's...do something cool in Photoshop already!" I nearly lapsed into a coma.* Yeah, if some people had it their way, OS X, iMacs, iPods, iMovie and all the rest probably never would've existed. We'd be installing applications via multiple floppies, fiddling with SCSI ID numbers, shutting down before connecting/disconnecting anything, etc. No thanks. *Once I OD'd on all the fruit-colored accessories and peripherals on the show floor, and visited every booth/exhibitor, for two days, I decided it was my one best shot to see San Francisco. So that's what I did for the next day-and-a-half. I never set foot back in Moscone. But did/saw everything a tourist/visitor to SF should: the wharf, the big orange bridge , Lombard Street, Chinatown, that white tower in that Dirty Harry movie, rode a cable car, ate some crazy food, played billiards in a funky venue late at night, drank beers I'd never heard of, etc. I had a better time that week, outside of the Expo, than inside the hall. Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-04-29 at 17:05. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Those Guys™ are the reason I support Apple's steady march to remove the legacy garbage at every opportunity. Perhaps I support it because I don't want to get caught in that mindset, that the only way to do things is the way I've always done them. I want to be treated to new technology, and it doesn't bother me a bit that I don't put glossy 5" discs into a player any longer. That my phone talks to my computer and can sync with it without connecting anything doesn't bother me. That a decent pair of Bluetooth headphones is only $50, or that an external USB-C SSD is way better than a USB-A mechanical dinosaur. And I'm happy to drop that old crap off at the 2nd-hand store, knowing full well that I paid bank for it in the day.
In ten years, I don't want to be that old bastard who hauls in some 20-year old clunker aching for the "good-ol' days"! I want a panel of glass that sits nicely on my desk that I don't have to plug anything into, because it gets it's power from my own magnetic aura! Bring on the new iMac and it's 2 ports, and bring on a 16" MacBoob Pro that charges from solar magic and has exactly zero freaking ports! - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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I'm sure we see it in our lifetime.
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This sort of fear of change is oddly common in IT (you'd think tech folks would embrace the future).
With the Mac, I particularly saw it in the early days of OS X. For example, this article on the Dock is… toxic, for lack of a better word. Some of Siracusa's rants about the Finder also came close. There's a fine line between "it's bad because I have some legitimate concerns" and "it's bad because it's different". (I think some decisions with the Dock are a little weird. I think I would like the symmetry of having both the menu bar at the top and the Dock at the bottom fill the entire width of the screen, rather than the Dock having this weird, wasted space at its edges. But in practice, most of Tog's usability concerns seem… overblown at best and absurd at worst.) |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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GOOD POINT!!
Why can't I get SCSI working on my iMacPowerBook Pro? Buncha Froot Loops. ... |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Those little switches, having to have each device in the chain be a different number, etc.
*shudder* I remember what a slog every little task could be. At the time it was all we knew so it didn’t jump out as much. It’s just “how it was”. But glancing back, 25+ years later…it’s a miracle anything ever got done. That any deadlines were met. But they were. We have it really good in 2021 (and have for quite some time). You haven’t lived until you’ve gone a few rounds with SCSI Syquest drives. I used to have to drive an envelope of them to John Wayne airport on my way home once a month to make the last freight/shipping plane out for the printer in Arizona. And when they received them in AZ, there was no guarantee they’d not arrive “corrupted” in some goofy way and not even open. That happened a couple of times. How I wasn’t completely grey, and on drugs, at 27 is beyond me. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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I’d like a “war stories” thread of funny stories from resident old timers and all their 80’s/90’s Mac-using trials and tribulations. Would be some funny reading.
Pre- iEra/Jobs’ return, everything was a bit of a mess, broadband hadn’t really arrived, there were 18,000 Performa Macs at all kinds of stores, MacUser magazine actually had porn/1-900 ads in the back, if you didn’t reboot your Mac 2-5 times a day, something was wrong, Apple LaserWriter printers cost $929, Adobe Photoshop and illustrator came on about a dozen installation floppies, all software came in huge boxes (because they all had big manuals/books(!) that taught you how to use them), CompUSA and Circuit City reigned supreme, Macworld magazine was actually about 3/4” thick and had usable content in small type (took weeks to get through an issue), RAM cost a kidney or two, a chain of various weirdos headed up Apple, etc. Good, funny times. |
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Sneaky Punk
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Yeah. I used to be bleeding edge everything until it became my day job. Now I cringe at "new" because it means I have thousands of people (literally) that are impacted by this little change I'm about to make. If nothing changes and it works then I don't need to change it for "fear" of effecting those end users.
Now I'm not that bad, I'll push changes that are under the promise of improvements and longer term stability, but I totally get the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset now. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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But yes, IT departments as in admins, etc. are way more resistant to change, even. Everything they do is considered a cost by management, after all, and migration is always costly. Quote:
(Mac OS 9 didn't even have cmd-tab, though, did it?) |
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Sneaky Punk
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I don’t think cmd+tab was even in early versions of OSX. Didn’t that come in Panther or Tiger?
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It looks like 10.1 Puma added the feature where you can press 'q' while command-tabbing. So cmd-tab itself was presumably already there, maybe as a holdover from NeXTstep even. I feel like I used some third-party utility in the Mac OS Classic days to get a cmd-tab-like UI. Absolutely no idea what it would've been. (I don't think it was DragThing.) |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Testing environment: abuse that bad boy. Reformatting from scratch is power unto the gods. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Yep. That sums it up. Even better since I mostly deal with VMs. Snapshot and have a blast. Revert if you must.
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Sneaky Punk
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As for Mac OS classic, running more than one app at a time was painful, I usually just didn’t do it. That was a huge improvement with OSX. Hard to remember what that was like is. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Those were such fun times. I remember going to those OS X release events (San Diego Apple store for Jaguar, Atlanta Apple Store for Panther, etc.). I was on that public beta on my iMac DV and later releases on it and my iMac G4 (cheetah, puma and Jaguar). I actually bought my PowerBook G4 on the Friday Panther was released (got it for free, I remember...which, after dropping $2,500 I felt it was the least they could do).
Drove home from Atlanta that night and installed it. Pretty much stayed up all night, enjoying the new OS and my new Mac. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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I met Brad when we were the ADC Student Developer winners from NC for '98. All expenses to WWDC.
Or was it '99... Shit, we old. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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I was of course joking about wanting FW800 ports in a new Mac computer, but I do still own a Mac with a FW800 port and have a few drives kicking around the office. I also have a couple decades worth of backup data DVDs from eons past. It's conceivable that I might need to access some of that data if a really old file ever gets corrupted on my main drives. So I might want a dongle that connects FW800 to the latest ports, and I want SuperDrive connectivity, even if its day is long past. I absolutely do not need a SuperDrive in the forthcoming larger iMac, and would be thrilled if the machine itself had only a number of TB4/USB4 ports. But there are business cases when an IT person might want to preserve the ability to access legacy devices. That's different from saying they just don'r want to embrace the connectivity of the future. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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The latest...these new models may be delayed until 2022.
I realize it's all rumors about other rumors, but still. I don't know the track record of this "source"...impossible to keep up with all these outfits/individuals at this point. Not much in the way of details at the above article (they say more info should be coming in the next day or so). Is it a processor/M-whatever issue? Or something to do with the mini-LED displays? A bit of both? Neither, and something to do with the overall design and manufacturing? Did Apple go and squeeze the absolute last millimeter out of things, and now they're discovering they're too thin? Is the ghost of Jony still lurking about, throwing a wrench - excuse me, spanner - into things? "While you can't actually use it for anything real, at .3mm thick it's the most beautiful notebook we've ever created. As it sits on the desk, you literally can't see it. It ceases to exist, which represents an enormous leap forward in design." - J. Ive |
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I would imagine the story is "14- and 16-inch MacBooks Pro with the new display are delayed", not "the launch of any 14- and 16-inch MacBooks Pro is delayed".
(I can't really see them not releasing any 16-inch ARM MacBook Pro this year. It would be over two years old then!) (edit) Oh, it's from DigiTimes. lol |
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