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Ye old Apple versus Windows debate...again

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Ye old Apple versus Windows debate...again
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vermont
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2004-12-18, 02:06

And no, I'm not looking to start a new one, I just want opinions from you guys on how I handled this in another forum I have started to frequent.

The post that started it all
Okay, I'm really sorry if this question has already done the rounds, I thought it probably would have, but couldn't turn it up with a search.

Alot of artists and designers use macintosh computers.
My question is, why?

I'm currently building a pc from scratch, something you can't do with macs.
Once it's done, i'll be able to upgrade and tinker to my heart's content, which i couldn't really do with a mac (or so i think...sorry if there are those that have...prove me wrong)
For me, being able to upgrade and customise my computer is really a major requirement, but putting this aside, what characteristics are they that draw artists to macintosh computers?

Anyone who's read penny arcade (i recommend it still site pluggin if its not my site?) knows the common view of pc users on why others use macs, but i'm hoping you can dispel the myth.
There has to be a better reason then just the image!

(ps. please don't hurt me, mac users....this is a legitimate question, not an insult. i promise!)
My response was this:
I'm one of those strange fellows that uses both (I even have a Red Hat server). I think both have their pros and cons. As for not being able to upgrade a Mac, that is a myth. This month I upgraded my G4 450 single to dual 1.4Ghz processors, added a new video card, and another hard drive.

And yes, Windows boxes are more prone to get viruses/trojans, but I have never been infected as I always keep my anti virus software up to date. Try to find me 10 known viruses for any Mac OS, I bet you can't. Does that mean a Mac is better?

For me the whole "PC's crash more" argument makes me cringe as well. I have had both my Mac and my Windows computer crash. Computers crash. But for people who say their PC crashes "all of the time" I say "what have you done to your poor computer?"

I have built my own PC's for the past 10 years and I have owned some sort of Apple computer all of that time.

As for the gaming argument, that is slowly going away as more and more games are starting to be simultaneously released for OS X and Windows (World of Warcraft is a prime example). But I'm not really a hardcore gamer on computers, consoles on the other hand....

Really you should just go with what you prefer. I prefer to do design and video work on my Mac and coding on my Windows box. Why? To be honest, I can't really explain it except to say that I like it that way. Although Final Cut Pro HD is by far the best video editing program I have ever used and I've used a ton (anyone here ever use an Amiga video toaster?)

Find someone you know who has G4/G5 (or just go to an Apple store, but they will be biased ) and just try it out. If you are dead set on a Windows box, no biggie, it is your choice. Make sure you like your computers especially if you are on them a lot.
So, how did I do. I normally just ignore these types of post as people just usually end up feeding a troll but he did say it was not meant as an insult. And as of yet, it has not turned into a flame war......yet

Bah weep gra na weep ninni bong
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
2004-12-18, 02:20

Macs are just nicer. It's intangible.

That said, I use a PC. It was cheaper, I like the upgradability (cheaper and easier than a Mac, even though I have done many upgrades on Macs before), and gaming is really no contest.
Fro Productions(tm)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London Town
2004-12-18, 10:57

Originally Posted by Milkman
So, how did I do.
I think you did pretty well. The point about crashing and viruses often being the user's fault is well made.

But Macs are definitely nicer, as Luca says. And this niceness is not that intangible. From the interface to the build quality, Macs are better in so many ways. Then again, PCs are better in many ways: games (mouse+keyboard is by far a better input device for games than a console controller), speed (in certain ways).

[Edit] Oh, and Networks, Macs are SHITE with (SMB) networks

bouncy bouncy

Last edited by SonOfSylvanus : 2004-12-18 at 21:23.
The Return of the 'nut
I am worthless beyond hope.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley
2004-12-20, 10:15

I really can't remember the last time Mac OS X crashed on me though. I've had weird shit happen that has made funky stuff appear on screen but it has gone away with force quits and everything.

It's hard to explain to PC users the benefits of the Mac when they already hold their opinion and have never used a mac. Having grown up on a mac, going to any PC was like going back in time 5-10 years. However, I can imagine growing up on a PC and going to a mac being like going to the future 5-10 years and that can be equally as confusing I suppose

Either way, it's a shame Apple's hardware is not more competitive or on par with the PC world because its becoming more and more apparent that the Mac is a much superior platform and Apple is going places that people would really get a lot of use out of. They just don't realize it.
Not sayin', just sayin'
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2004-12-20, 11:05

There are a few different answers.

Well, Macs do not cater to a DIY crowd in terms of hardware. But how many people want to go through the effort of bulding their own PC, upgrading it, etc.? Macs cater to those who don't want the hassle, not just in terms of hardware but in terms of software, the OS, the apps, etc. too. While you can do a lot more with the OS and software if you want (CLI, X11, *nix, whatnot), the user experience is designed for those who don't and shouldn't have to do a lot of upkeep, those who don't want to learn new ways of doing things all the time, people who find advantage in working with more tailored tools for a given job, and using many such tools together on a work rather than being boxed in by an app or a software suite. The idea ultimately is that you spend less time on sharpening your tools and more time using them. Macs sacrifice some (not as much as people may think) flexibility for more predictability.

So, in summary, a Mac is for the lazy people, like me. Here's to the lazy ones...
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
2004-12-20, 13:03

I think a pro-Mac case can best be made by demonstrating that you understand the tradeoffs involved and have made an informed decision. Over time, this tends to convince even the most die-hard PC fanatics.

For instance, it is a disservice to claim that the Mac is a good gaming platform. As much as I love OS X and apple hardware, Macs are clearly not as good for gaming. It is also wishful thinking to assert that the situation is improving. While there are games for the mac, they generally perform worse, even on more expensive hardware. There are also fewer games and most are released after many months delay if at all.

By admitting this to the PC users, they will begin to respect your opinion, observing that you evaluate each platform without bias. Then... when you point out bennefits of OS X, you won't be dismissed immediately as a hopeless fanatic.
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
2004-12-20, 13:06

It's not so much about being lazy to me (though I am definitely lazy). For normal day to day stuff like word processing, email, web browsing, CD burning, grabbing pics off digicams and home movies off digital camcorders, Apple just does it so much better. The interface is cleaner, the multitasking is better, the software is always more intuitive. Making something better and easier to use doesn't constitute "catering to the lazy" in my book, any more than Microsoft is catering to masochists with Windows.
Join Date: May 2004
2004-12-20, 15:05

Once Macs get all or most of the games that are out for PC's and the games released on the same date as the PC's get the game than I believe apple will give us a bit better specs. But, don't hope for anything higher than a 5200 in an emac or a 9600 in an iMac.

Veteran Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
2004-12-20, 17:31

Originally Posted by SonOfSylvanus
[Edit] Oh, and Networks, Macs are SHITE with (SMB) networks
You could extend that comment to the whole Finder... but remember, Windows machines aren't always very good SMB citizens either

Actually I think the whole protocol is bad. To date I haven't seen a perfectly good and stable network disk system. I have worked in companies that have large networks, my college has a large network, and my campus apartment is in a 1500+ computer local network. SMB, the various Unix network file systems, they all seem to suck some way or other.
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