BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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I don't feel superior to others. I don't believe myself to be superior to others. It bothers me immensely when people suggest that I do or am. I have a well-developed ego, but I am not particularly arrogant. I am aware of my faults, hell I discuss them openly on this fucking forum, and these faults have and will continue to come in the way of my life's development. But to suggest that I feel myself to be particularly superior to others is anathema to my ethical core. Last edited by billybobsky : 2012-01-13 at 20:19. Reason: Edited: Protest made, point acceded, change made. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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2 weeks is too long. I don't know who came up with that random amount, but it's wrong. bobsky has been more helpful than detrimental in the scheme of things (across every world, mind you), so at the very least I'd urge that sentence to be cut in half if not more.
I wasn't there that night and have no access to the transcripts, but I can't believe is was egregious enough to earn a half-month ban. That's just ridiculous. So it goes. |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong Last edited by Robo : 2012-01-13 at 20:27. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Bringing up RC threads in the general populous is a no-no though. That's a bad. So it goes. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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In any event, the point was relevant to the discussion of me that you created and how I unlike you (citation needed) don't give a shit how I am perceived. I have now changed the post to reflect your and grey's protest. Quote:
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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I think there's a difference between thinking one's opinions and thoughts to be better supported and more *insert subjective phrase here* than believing oneself to be superior. It may be a fine point, but it is an important one to me. I am owed and deserve nothing even though my opinions and thoughts are more refined (this is not stated as a fact, just a hypothetical) because I am not superior. See my point? (Of course you do).
Last edited by billybobsky : 2012-01-13 at 20:41. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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I understand the differentiation, of course. But that's you in any sense that I've ever known you. You've always taken (and given) credit where due, and to try and peel the credit layer apart from yourself seems a little disingenuous, and somehow avoiding something I'm not entirely sure why you would.
You're obviously talented in your field, so, say you come across something that would shower you with accolades. You're not going to take credit? "My ego (Freudian) would like to thank you all for this honor." There is no magic that absolves you from becoming a conglomerate of what you think yourself is and what your mind actually is. It just isn't so, and trying to separate the two is sticky, at best. Regardless. 2 weeks is too fucking long. It feels random and stupid. So it goes. Last edited by 709 : 2012-01-13 at 21:17. |
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Environmental Bloodhound
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Oh for f*ck sakes people... Disclaimer: In no place do I intend these to be ad hominem attacks, so don't take anything out of context.
Alright let's deal with the principal parts of the matter. I'm a scientist, similar to BB although in a different field. I can understand the way he interacts with others with respect to his "truthiness". I've met people with more and less the same level of tact. He has opinions and he expresses them. I myself put being truthful over seeing myself as false or as a hypocrite. I may not be as vocal as BB about my opinions as I have developed a sort of "f*ck em" mode, but I respect the right he has to say them. To RS, I left that night before the major meltdown that is leading to this airing of dirty laundry. Like 709 I don't have transcripts to read to know what was said or the progress of events leading up to the escalation. I will say this I respect you as well with your opinions on life and hockey (even if the Leafs suck ). But the big brother act for Robo with BB just seems over the top with me. TPing to a person in order to make sure they can be punished is just, well... lame. This nonsense with BB is just that, ridiculous. Robo, you are as unique person that I have talked to. At times you can be over the top, but I tune it out, I screen it. You are overly sensitive at times though. If someone says something about you that you find offensive, then f*ck 'em. You are you and nobody can take that away from you. You don't need people "sticking up" for you and creating this mess. Stand up in the first place tell BB to piss off and we don't have RS trying to stick up for you and the needless escalation of punishment. I can probably say that BB may retract your "asshattery" if you call him to the carpet in the first place. Turtle, I think you, your wife, and daughter are integral parts of our community. I appreciate that you let us move on to your server for better service in which to enjoy our world. I feel that each of you gives back to the community at large in your own way. Back in the old world it was nice to wander away from downtown BP with all of us contributing to the town with separate areas for our own individual establishments. The key was that all of us were outside of vicinity of town to give each other some space. We did this in BP, Sedona, and Loch Green. Small establishments are the key around town in TerraNova. We took this new world as a new step in city planning with many players in order to get it right from the beginning. The biggest crux of people's complaints is the Mrs_T's castle and the ever present expansion of the compound. This behavior was fine in BP in Turtle Ranch and Turtle Park. It's just too close in the new world. However, the castle and to a lesser extent the Sartor shop dominate the skyline in the NW quarter of the new town and people are put off from building there. I love Mrs T's creativity and her joy in the game, however these structures where they are currently located don't work. Sorry. Maybe slightly north near the lighthouse and the cactus house may have worked better, but the fact of the matter is that something large and dominant was constructed without community input for the aesthetics of town. Creative mode vs survival is a non issue. To each their own. I may have overstepped myself in building my tower where it is, and am willing to cut out some height for the greater good now that I have established a foothold in the western snow biome. You are all creative and unique individuals and I appreciate working with you. Everybody has had something to add to the community to make it a better place. I don't feel that a 2 week ban is justified for BB, because it doesn't prove anything other than we have some serious issues to work out. I feel we are better served to hash them out both here and in MC and as such need BB around. So come on people, band together. Formerly known as cynical_rock censeo tentatio victum There is no snooze button on a cat. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. Last edited by turtle : 2012-01-14 at 00:03. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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You need to move the castle, the lapis thing and the gold temple North of the lighthouse. The "discontent" you mention is in no small part related to you and your placing shit with no regard for the community. Have your "creative mode" area, fine, just not near town.
The slope argument is bullshit, and everyone here knows that. The server in general used to be a nice place. Then we moved to yours and you felt like it gave you carte blanche to do anything you wanted to. We should probably rethink that imo. So it goes. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate the sentiment of a grand structure for the community, though I do find it convenient that no one was asked whether it would be ok to build a giant monotone ugliness next to the center of town, but the sentiment is nice. However, its like a fruitcake no one asked for. The gift needs to be returned. Hell, it can be moved. It would be better appreciated at a distance, a far far distance. Just to be clear: Mrs. Turtle is perfectly capable of building beautiful structures. Her Loch Greene house was great. The light house is awesome. Sans culturally deaf overtones the house of the risen son is well put together. She just failed with the castle and the sartorial shoppe. Completely. I cannot make it more clear than that. Grey's wish list is indeed shared by almost everyone I have had the chance to engage on this issue. He was honest with you. Just go with that. Quote:
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Let's take point 1. If I was in the same situation would I have acted differently? Perhaps, but not because I think what I did was unjustified but because I think everyone who acted 'wrongly' in the situation isn't getting the same 'contemplation' time they need to. Brad and RS should also have been banned. But you know, they worked the system (you turtle, you're the system, Be your own man, turtle) better than I. I thought honesty would be appreciated, but instead lies were. That's is excellent. I know what you prefer, now, turtle. Lies. Good to know. Rethinking that whole 'I like you' thing... So really, this cannot possibly be it, because I would have half a mind to do it over again exactly the same way, just louder and with lies and exaggerations this time. Not the intention, I don't think. Ok point 2. The punishment wasn't announced. Therefore this couldn't have been it. So the punishment was completely random. The cited reasons in the PM are a hodgepodge of silliness. Lack of remorse, well duh the act was justified; loss of TONS of supplies (a lie/exaggeration by rs), etc etc. But as I have stated, I don't care. The 'punishment' lets turtle get on his hobby horse. Brad and RS get to feel righteous indignation. And if they are satisfied with it, then so be it. My life isn't minecraft. It's just a game, after all. Quote:
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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Let me just briefly comment on timing: you probably won't be seeing me much at all on the server any more after the ban expires. I am, after all, moving to England. Still hard to wrap my mind around, to be honest. But the deadline for that is rapidly approaching and then I will be on GMT (EST+5) so no more nightly sorties during the week. You'll be lucky to see my on after 5 pm EST. And this is IF i get internet in my apartment in short order and IF i find playing alone on a server with no one else tolerable.
If the server doesn't blow up in a mysterious conflagration of personalities while I am not even on (how strange would that be, huh), then maybe I will see y'all on weekends... |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Okay.
I love you all, but I can't join you on this stupid argument over pixels, when the real conflict is about personalities. I've thought about it and I've thought about it and the deal is, ON "THE BRUCE INCIDENT" I like Bruce. Bruce is a troll. Bruce has told you over and over that he's a troll. Made it clear. Troll. Troll. Troll. Rowdy and Brad stirred up the troll with an in-game attack. You didn't use your words, you picked up a stick. FIRST. I see little difference between that and Bruce's response. Brad and Rowdy should both be banned for a period equal to that of Bruce. I'm quite serious: there's no equity in what you've done to the troll. Turtle, I'm officially calling for an appeal on the 2 week ban. It stinks. Dellphi tried to blow up one of those thingies with TNT 3 times and it wouldn't blow up. It's a chore for him to type a lot, but maybe he'll come on and mention that. Anyway: I'm seriously calling for that appeal. ON "TURTLELAND" Yeah, the castle isn't very pretty. I'm not a fan. Wish it was somewhere else. BUT I like Turtle and Mrs. T a LOT and it's nice to have her in-game. So I moved. Wow, problem solved. We have this great thing called "Teleportation" that lets us go all over the darned place. Instant elbow room. But Turtle, that whole "slope" argument is poop. And I know poop. SHUT THE FUCK UP AND HAVE FUN I honestly thought this whole thing was a joke at first. Why not tell me that it was. Everybody go in game and play. Shut the fuck up with your stupid hard feelings. Go into a dungeon with the guy you've got a beef with. Do some stuff together and pull your various panties out of your various cracks. I have pirating to do, you junior high school pussies* ... *since Murbot isn't in-game to impart this important bit of advice |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Agreed. Either remove the ban or expand the ban to cover all parties involved in the attacks.
The issue of Turtle and his thinking that he's above all community guidelines is a problem, and one that should be addressed as a community. That he makes up stupid excuses leads me to believe he knows that he's in the wrong, but we either have to explicitly say that everyone has to follow the guidelines or no one has to follow them. I'd prefer the former on both counts, but that's just me. So it goes. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Can we move all of this shit to a different thread? Like, MC: The Incident? The Guideline thread is polluted.
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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May I come visit y'all?
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Where the fuck is Brad, btw?
I haven't even seen his new hairdo in person. |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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Until last night, I've been too busy IRL for the last several days to patrol the forums (save for an occasional quick check over lunch) and hadn't logged a minute in the game. It sounds like 709's complaint about turtle's old land grab is being addressed. So, I'll throw in my two cents on "THE BRUCE INCIDENT" as Drew calls is.
Bobsky was verbally abusing Robo (not the first time) during a lighting storm. I jolted him as a "sign from god" to give it a rest. Setting fire to anything was unintentional (and wholly unexpected given that the Bukkit weather wand plugin is configured to not start fires) and, if I had know, I would have help with repairs. That should have been the end of it. Instead, Bobsky decided to turn reactionary and bring malicious "retribution" on RowdyScot by igniting TNT in his house and then acting (at first) as though he did nothing. To further mar his record, Bobsky then posted private, personal details in this thread as an ad hom attack on the other players. These comments have since been edited out, and I didn't see them first-hand, but I've a good enough description of them from different people to know that it was inexcusably out of line. Even if Bobsky's in-game actions weren't enough to enact the ban, and I say they were, the followup actions on the forums would have pushed the decision over the edge. Our Minecraft server is not an island; it is an extension of the community we have here on these forums. Our Minecraft server is a private server, and the ability to join the game is not a "right" but a privilege of good behavior and being a community member in good standing. Yes, we have some non-forum members on the game server, but they are only allowed to participate by virtue of other forum members having vouched for them, and by extension the forum members have taken responsibility for the visiting players' in-game actions. I do intend to enforce that membership policy, but we haven't needed to until now. Anyone who disagrees strongly with that is free to leave the game. The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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For fuck's sake. This is ridiculous. I should have left the comments in. I am getting tarred for statements that the tar-er didn't even read. Ask Grey, who did in fact see them, if they even rise close to the level of an ad hom. Regardless of whether they were an ad hom or not, your very signature suggests we have the ability to adjust our posts for editing. It seems more than hypocritical to 'punish' me for choosing to edit a single parenthetical reference to a single comment made elsewhere, which was used in point of fact to contrast myself to the person I was responding to. I can, in fact, read when my presence isn't wanted. |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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Your "single parenthetical reference" was in fact two rather direct references; after I protested that your bringing up of private shit was inappropriate, you brought it up again, in further detail, to "defend" your bringing it up. And I don't get why you keep on mentioning that bringing up private shit was somehow necessary to provide contrast for your argument or whatever. It's missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter why you really wanted to post Private Shit.™ You crossed a line by posting it. (I'm pretty sure Brad can still read it if he wants to, anyway.) and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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You seem to not follow the logic of brad's post to which I was replying. His statement was even IF my in game actions didn't push me into banned territory, my comments (referring here directly to my SINGLE statement of fact about you) certainly put me over the edge. Therefore, I am being 'punished' (look at those beautiful quotes) for an ad hom that wasn't an ad hom that he didn't even read, in brad's mind at least. So no, Jack, I am not that dense, but someone else seems to be. Quote:
I acceded that the info, because of its private nature shouldn't have been used. It ISN'T being used. So really. Are you having fun? Because I am not. The continuing exaggerations of how much verbal abuse I was dishing out is simply absurd. I called you an asshat something like 10 times over the course of a couple of minutes. How many words haven't been spared in casting me as some utter villain in all of this. I explained myself to you. I gave you as much benefit as that. I was irked by your dismissive (uh, ok Bruce) responses to what I said. And as far as I was concerned that was it. But no. Not for you. Never for you. The fire started on my atoll was real. It was the result of zealous actions by Brad and RS. Brad and RS have clearly not 'learned' the inappropriateness of physically destroying property (even accidentally) as a result of their zealotry. They manage to find excuses for their actions, which I must mirror out of self-preservation, so why should I even bother playing a game with one admin who believes himself to be above the rules of the community and the other who believes their actions are almost always seemingly 'ok', even when they clearly aren't. Last edited by billybobsky : 2012-01-15 at 19:21. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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To end this once and for all: I have deleted the copies of minecraft on my computers so I will never be tempted to play again.
The atoll is Grey's now, including all of the supplies in it and he can do with those what he wants. No one else is allowed to do anything with it. So enjoy the game boys. As I said, I can read when I am not wanted. I do not have the energy or time to argue with Robo, RS, Brad and turtle over the appropriateness of all of this. I simply cannot be bothered. You win. Congrats! |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Super, Bruce.
This was obviously a logical, non-emotional way of resolving the issue. Brad & Turtle's solution wasn't great, either. We all lose. ... |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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That is the unadorned truth. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
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No. I think there are winners here. I think they know who they are and should have nice senses of satisfaction. At least someone is getting something out this. Me staying in game wasn't going to get anyone anything.
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Environmental Bloodhound
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Simple truth here:
Two contrasting personalities clashed in game. Several idiotic incidents played out in ever escalating order. We've now lost one of the veteran, prolific community builders and have created enough of a shitstorm to turn off those on the sidelines. Nobody is covering themselves in any glory here, and the point needs to be dropped for a while instead of constantly trying to get the last word in. Formerly known as cynical_rock censeo tentatio victum There is no snooze button on a cat. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Bruce, I've attempted to defend your retaliation in part as a tit-for-tat action, but the maddening circular gabbing in this thread about what was surely a junior high school conversation in-game is hanging you with your own rope.
I know the people in this game. I know what to expect of them. Robo is chatty. Rowdy can be prickly if confronted with unexpected situations. Grey loves Minecraft and the community of building things. Drew is random. Mrs. T likes pretty things and is scared of monsters. Brad builds Lego buildings and plays demi-god. T likes to adventure and build things and takes care of his family. Box of Jason... well hell, I don't know what he does. Dellphi builds things quietly and lets everyone blather. ....and the rest.... and when these people are being themselves and it irritates me, I go do something of my own and ignore them. I don't know what Robo said, but you were being a DICKHEAD for badgering him about it... even if he was being a dickhead for doing whatever he was originally saying. What good is it to go after people about blather, anyway? It's just chit chat, people talking. I know that your arguments in this thread have been driven by a feeling that you were treated unjustly, and you were. You were. Brad and Rowdy should have received punishment too. They did not. I'd have kept playing and just not interacted with them anymore. I am honestly and very sincerely going to miss you in the game, but it sounds like you've made your petulant decision. Brad is giving Turtle solidarity on the 2 week ban, that's obvious and unfortunate that we as part of the gaming community couldn't have discussed how to punish folks. That rankles me and several others. A lot. I'd like to hear Brad respond to this. ... |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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What did I do, again?
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No, bobsky, I'm pretty sure the "stupidity" started when you repeatedly called me an asshat for what everybody else understood to be a harmless joke. Nobody else thought my joke (presented here, for the record, in its entirety: "oh, too slow / waaaah waaaaaah!") was out of line — not even Brad, who was the "target" of it. I'll be blunt, since you dislike tact: I don't think you really get jokes. Like, in general. I think you have trouble understanding when people are joking and when people are being genuinely mean. This isn't the first time you've read too much into one of my jokes, or taken them seriously. Based on your behavior in the days leading up to the incident, I think you disliked me beforehand, and I think this colored your perception of my joke/asshattery. I have good friends who have serious problems reading people's intentions, but they acknowledge this and try not to fly off the handle all the time. If they did, they'd be unbearable. I think there's an established pattern of you overreacting here, just like you overreacted when people told you your "Tim Cook bored Steve Jobs to death" joke was in poor taste, and just like you overreacted when I tweeted that I didn't want to post personal stuff here any more because of you (which turned out to be prescient). Quote:
and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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