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No more Broadcast Flag!


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No more Broadcast Flag!
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Ebby
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2005-05-06, 15:35

OK, maybe this is just my video-geekieness leaking out, but Slashdot reported the broadcast flag is no more! I was expecting this to be big (well, bigger) news here. This actually sent a tingle down my spine it is so cool. This was my number one reason to get digital TV tuners in my house before July. (Of which I have 2 and don't use analogue TV's anymore) There are so few times the courts stick up for us little guys it is nice to think there is some hope left.

Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to do anything illegal, but I don't want some stuck-up businessman controlling how I use my equipment.

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
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Kickaha
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2005-05-06, 15:47

Yeah, this is sweet.

Simply put: broadcast flag = no VCR, no TiVO, no recording *ANYTHING*. Period.
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Brad
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2005-05-06, 15:56

OH SWEET CHEESES, THERE IS A GOURD!

This is absolutely wonderful news. Now, if only we could do something about that little DMCA thing...
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torifile
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2005-05-06, 16:39

I must be slow because I don't get it. Someone want to explain it to my extra slow mind? TIA.
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Brad
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2005-05-06, 16:40

*points to the second line of Kickaha's post*

Basically, this means that you can continue to legally record shows on broadcast television. You know VCRs, TiVos, that sort of thing? Some FCC dirtbags were trying to outlaw them.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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torifile
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2005-05-06, 16:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
*points to the second line of Kickaha's post*

Basically, this means that you can continue to legally record shows on broadcast television. You know VCRs, TiVos, that sort of thing? Some FCC dirtbags were trying to outlaw them.
Ah, gotcha. I wasn't aware that taping stuff was going to be illegal. Fucking greedy bastards. What, they thought we'd buy their shit on DVD or something?
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spotcatbug
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2005-05-06, 17:03

It isn't total victory, it just means Hollywood, etc. will need to get congress involved - maybe to give the FCC the missing power they "need" to mandate something like this.

If the DMCA can become law, so can a broadcast flag.

Ugh.
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Kickaha
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2005-05-06, 17:10

That's my fear as well, but to be honest I think it comes down to what Joe Sixpack can understand: DMCA: confusing, ephemeral, whole lotta vague possibilities... but take away their right to TiVO, and BAM, any politician that supports this is directly impinging on their right to watch their own TV. *THAT* they can understand.

It's a simple enough issue that it can make even the densest couch-citizen perk up and get annoyed.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
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IonYz
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2005-05-06, 22:37

This is good news, at work though it was a little weird. I mean, none of our content can be flagged (erm, mostly VHS and some DVD... right?). Its all up to the vendor. Fair-use is important, but we also know Teachers are copying our tapes.

I don't think a broadcast flag changes anything with us. Most we can do is explain which rights, based on the media, members have.

Does this have anything to do with HDCP? Still a little confused on that topic.

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Kickaha
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2005-05-06, 23:01

What it would mean is that John Q Public would never again be able to TiVO their shows. Or record them on a Digital VHS. Or indeed *ANY* device sold after July 1, 2005.

It essentially would stop any sort of private recording of broadcasts, for any reason, cold in its tracks.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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IonYz
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2005-05-06, 23:57

Weird, for some reason I thought it was to prevent cross-transmission of digital content. For example, you can record your program but it can only playback from the device it was captured from.

Private recordings, however, are covered under fair-use I thought? I like 24, but I'm doing something Monday at 8pm (true story), I should be able to record it for later watching. Don't plan on distributing it around the net or anything. Thought that was fair-use?

Well, I don't have a DVR or Tivo or anything. Ended up grabbing the torrent, in HD quality. Fun stuff.

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Brad
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2005-05-07, 00:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonYz
Private recordings, however, are covered under fair-use I thought?
"Fair use" went out the window with the DMCA.
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Ebby
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2005-05-07, 00:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonYz
Weird, for some reason I thought it was to prevent cross-transmission of digital content. For example, you can record your program but it can only playback from the device it was captured from.
There are different levels of "protection" and some do tie a recording to a specific machine, but one of the main reasons I would use a VCR is to record 2 programs at the same time. Those machines are NEVER both connected to my projector (or the same TV setup).

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-07, 08:34

Broadcast television signals pass through my house, property, and body all the time, and I'll do what I damn well please with them. Screw the greedy hollywood bastards.

And the RIAA too. It's a semi-related issue.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-07, 08:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha
What it would mean is that John Q Public would never again be able to TiVO their shows. Or record them on a Digital VHS. Or indeed *ANY* device sold after July 1, 2005.

It essentially would stop any sort of private recording of broadcasts, for any reason, cold in its tracks.
Besides, how would they do that? VCRs are a dime a dozen these days, and everybody has at least one. There was a dispute when they were first sold, and the courts decided that there was nothing wrong with their use.

They would have to change the format in which television would be broadcasted, which would mean new TVs, which would be very unpopular with everyone else.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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Ebby
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2005-05-07, 11:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans
They would have to change the format in which television would be broadcasted, which would mean new TVs, which would be very unpopular with everyone else.
That is happening. This broadcast flag would have worked only with digital broadcasts (ATSC). That is the new format and your new TV's are digital TV's. That transition is already underway and has been for some time. But I have no quarrels with that.

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
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Banana
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2005-05-07, 12:12

Tell you what. Ill support broadcast flag if they can meet this one simple condition. They must figure out how to make the broadcast waves stop deadpan on the 49th parallel.

I'm watching canadian tv on wrong side and have yet to hear any canadian howl over me "hogging bandwidth", "stealing their unique content" and so forth.

British had it right when their laws specified that whoever found something, regardlss of whose property it was on, the finder keeps it, not the landowner. Really, how can you tell a fox this is man xs land and that is man ys land. You may not cross this line.

Here's my proposal; we draft a bill to the congress mandating psychological check-up on every employees, executives, stockholders of any movie, recording or media company.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-07, 13:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebby
That is happening. This broadcast flag would have worked only with digital broadcasts (ATSC). That is the new format and your new TV's are digital TV's. That transition is already underway and has been for some time. But I have no quarrels with that.
I do. TV is fine how it is now, and I still watch all my TV through an antenna sticking out my window. My TV is 20 years old and fake wood. The remote gives bricks penis envy. But I still see nothing wrong with TV as it is now.

Why the big push to change? How will it truly benefit mankind?

I really don't want to bust half a grand on some newfangled TV when the one I have works fine.

You ask me for a hamburger.
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thuh Freak
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2005-05-08, 00:35

i believe part of the problem, and i'm not certain about this, is that tv broadcasts on a fairly large part of the spectrum. digital tv would require considerably less (perhaps none, since it'll be digital?). those parts of the spectrum can be used for things like: cordless phones, wireless cards, other devices.
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WBG4
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2005-05-09, 17:32

YAY! That broadcast flag sucked
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2005-05-09, 19:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicbartbeans
I do. TV is fine how it is now, and I still watch all my TV through an antenna sticking out my window. My TV is 20 years old and fake wood. The remote gives bricks penis envy. But I still see nothing wrong with TV as it is now.

Why the big push to change? How will it truly benefit mankind?

I really don't want to bust half a grand on some newfangled TV when the one I have works fine.
As it stands right now, your TV will go dark on January 1, 2007. That's the current drop-dead date on the digital transition. The FCC wants the analog wavelengths back so they can reauction them off to wireless companies. In order to do this they had to get TV stations broadcasting in HD. They did this by giving the stations free wavelengths to broadcast HD and analog at the same time. But, the provision was, once the drop-dead date hit, all analog wavelengths would be given back to the FCC.

Basically this means that on the drop-dead date, currently January 1, 2007, every TV built since 1946 will go dark. They will officially be obsolete. Unless you buy a special HD -> analog converter for your TV or go with cable/satellite services your TV will no longer be useful for watching broadcasts. Gotta love forced obsolesence being pushed by the FCC eh?

Oh yeah, this drop-dead date can be (and probably will be) pushed back if US adoption of HDTVs isn't above a certain percentage. I believe in the next 18 months the price of HDTVs will have to seriously come down in price or Congress/FCC will have to push back the drop-dead date which they are loathe to do because they'd be looking at losing billions of dollars in wavelength auction revenues.
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atomicbartbeans
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2005-05-09, 20:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend
Basically this means that on the drop-dead date, currently January 1, 2007, every TV built since 1946 will go dark.
I'm sorry man, but that really chafes my ass. 60 years of innovation suddenly will have lost most of its meaning. I can imagine showing off my now-brand-new Zenith television to my future grandchildren, saying [grandpa simpson] "back in my day, these things could pick up a whole buncha shows, but now thanks to the feds none of 'em work anymore... now go get me a new pair of Depends before I wipe my excrementaneous matter all over your young, virile-looking face so help you God" [/grandpa simpson].

I thought that it was better for newer wireless devices to transmit towards the upper end of the spectrum (think Ghz), and lower frequencies didn't have as much geek appeal. You can count on me buying some older broadcasting equipment after said date, and opening the first illegal back-of-truck TV broadcasting station. Count on tuning your obsolete 20th century-built TV to Simpsons reruns and Mac-centric technology reviews... that is if you live in a 15-mile radius of Central New York. However, we will be continuously on the move along the US' major highways so as not to tip off "Big Charlie". I plan to develop a cult following that will travel along with me.

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Kickaha
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2005-05-09, 20:40

Shall we start calling you Blank Reg?
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IonYz
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2005-05-09, 23:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend
They will officially be obsolete. Unless you buy a special HD -> analog converter for your TV or go with cable/satellite services your TV will no longer be useful for watching broadcasts.
Replace HD with Digital. The ATSC (think NTSC but for digital) has standard definition (SD) resolutions as standards as well as 720p and 1080i HD ones, actually there are 18 formats they support. You TV won't need to be HD but it will need a digital receiver box if its older.

Quote:
Gotta love forced obsolesence being pushed by the FCC eh?
Reminds me of Steve Jobs and the OS 9 to OS X transition. If he could, he would have blacked out all of the "Classic" world, haha. That transition took time, just like this will. You don't think the venerable stereotype, Joe Sixpack, will stand by as his TV goes dark do you? The 2007 deadline will come and go.

I'm not worried because I already own an HDTV with digital cable and soon (gasp) an HD compatible box. But most of my relatives don't have that luxury although many have digital cable (suburbs) or digital satellite (rural).

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Banana
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2005-05-10, 00:33

Um,

Exactly how many wavelengths are we entitled to? I'd imagine there's a finite amount of wavelengths that we can use without creating interferences or whatnots, but dunno how many are available?

However, I do think its a bit odd that all of sudden FCC wants to reauction analog wavelengths; as atomicbartbeans said, isn't higher wavelengths supposed to be better?

Seems to me there's more to it than just DMCA and broadcast flag....
Heck, if they wanted to, auction off gamma ray ranges! Mircoware (make it so that when you turn on your mircowave to nuke your breakfast burrito, you can view the latest play in NFL)! Visible color spectrum (think Northern Lights in Hawaii)! Aw, hell with it, lets sell them all! :roll:
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IonYz
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2005-05-10, 01:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana
However, I do think its a bit odd that all of sudden FCC wants to reauction analog wavelengths
Don't think there is an "all of a sudden" about it, this kinda crazy scheme takes planning.

I read it explained before, how they were going to use those bands for more important things then TV (gasp) like emergency communications and stuff.

More worried about HDMI/HDCP/HD DVDs for the short-term. Not much worried though.

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Banana
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2005-05-10, 08:50

Link?
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IonYz
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2005-05-10, 23:22

To the FCC wavelength excuses? Read it on slashdot in the story about the broadcast flag. I was ready to give you a link to that article but in visiting slashdot I just got sidetracked... a few hours. So erm, go over there and search. It was recently.

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Ebby
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2005-06-21, 00:41

UPDATE!
It is back! And the decision is in 48 HOURS! Talk about the last minute.
Pull this kind of crap before anyone knows what is happening, treat your costumers as criminals and STILL blame P2P networks. How much lower can you get you... ^%@$@!^)

Link: LINK

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Last edited by Ebby : 2005-06-21 at 00:42.
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709
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2005-06-21, 06:28

This is beyond evil.

*Anything* can be passed nowadays as an amendment to something completely unrelated...and it burns my nuts.

If you're from any of these states your Senator is on the Committee:

Alabama, Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin

Write Them.

So it goes.
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